ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

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JustHawkin
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JustHawkin » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:11 pm

Attax wrote:Gonna hop on this thread now that I've deposited only one place:

Goals: Patent Lit biglaw in Texas, but wouldn't mind midlaw. Small law may kill me though.

Ties: Texas

School(s) - COA over 3 years:
Texas - $18k


Other info: No spouse, will use loans for the $18k. Held at NU and would probably be paying near sticker to attend there. I am not strongly minded to stay in Texas my entire life, but I have ties here and particularly in patent work, it is my cheapest option and the best school I've been admitted to, but I only have a BS in Chemistry.


Disclaimer: 0L

But how can you really go wrong with this choice?

Nomo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Nomo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:19 pm

JustHawkin wrote:
Attax wrote:Gonna hop on this thread now that I've deposited only one place:

Goals: Patent Lit biglaw in Texas, but wouldn't mind midlaw. Small law may kill me though.

Ties: Texas

School(s) - COA over 3 years:
Texas - $18k


Other info: No spouse, will use loans for the $18k. Held at NU and would probably be paying near sticker to attend there. I am not strongly minded to stay in Texas my entire life, but I have ties here and particularly in patent work, it is my cheapest option and the best school I've been admitted to, but I only have a BS in Chemistry.


Disclaimer: 0L

But how can you really go wrong with this choice?


Well, over half of UT students don't get biglaw or midlaw. That only leaves government, non-profits, small law, and underemployment. OP says small law may kill him (presumably the other options aren't appealing as well). So there is a very good chance things don't work out for him.

Nomo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Nomo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:21 pm

blink wrote:Posted this several pages back but now I'm all done hearing from schools:

blink wrote:
Goals: JAG => USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Duke (48k), Georgetown (sticker), Vandy (80k), UCLA (90k) WashU (81k)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA. Splitter, LSAT > all medians outside the T6. WL'd at Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, Michigan, Virginia, Cornell.


Are you in the military already? Because getting JAG will be no walk in the park. And jumping from JAG to AUSA isn't exactly easy either. What's plan B, plan C, and plan D? What are you totally uninterested in?

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Attax
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Attax » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:23 pm

Nomo wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:
Attax wrote:Gonna hop on this thread now that I've deposited only one place:

Goals: Patent Lit biglaw in Texas, but wouldn't mind midlaw. Small law may kill me though.

Ties: Texas

School(s) - COA over 3 years:
Texas - $18k


Other info: No spouse, will use loans for the $18k. Held at NU and would probably be paying near sticker to attend there. I am not strongly minded to stay in Texas my entire life, but I have ties here and particularly in patent work, it is my cheapest option and the best school I've been admitted to, but I only have a BS in Chemistry.


Disclaimer: 0L

But how can you really go wrong with this choice?


Well, over half of UT students don't get biglaw or midlaw. That only leaves government, non-profits, small law, and underemployment. OP says small law may kill him (presumably the other options aren't appealing as well). So there is a very good chance things don't work out for him.


Yeah that is my concern, but I still think this is the best option I'll have even if I sit out and retake. At least at the 18k debtload I don't have to get biglaw to pay it off, I can venture off into chemistry industry (possibly, if the JD doesn't scare them away).

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prezidentv8
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby prezidentv8 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 4:33 pm

Attax wrote:Gonna hop on this thread now that I've deposited only one place:

Goals: Patent Lit biglaw in Texas, but wouldn't mind midlaw. Small law may kill me though.

Ties: Texas

School(s) - COA over 3 years:
Texas - $18k


Other info: No spouse, will use loans for the $18k. Held at NU and would probably be paying near sticker to attend there. I am not strongly minded to stay in Texas my entire life, but I have ties here and particularly in patent work, it is my cheapest option and the best school I've been admitted to, but I only have a BS in Chemistry.



Seems like a low-risk, potentially high reward play.

Image

Cleared for takeoff.

Nomo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Nomo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:13 pm

Attax wrote:
Nomo wrote:
JustHawkin wrote:
Attax wrote:Gonna hop on this thread now that I've deposited only one place:

Goals: Patent Lit biglaw in Texas, but wouldn't mind midlaw. Small law may kill me though.

Ties: Texas

School(s) - COA over 3 years:
Texas - $18k


Other info: No spouse, will use loans for the $18k. Held at NU and would probably be paying near sticker to attend there. I am not strongly minded to stay in Texas my entire life, but I have ties here and particularly in patent work, it is my cheapest option and the best school I've been admitted to, but I only have a BS in Chemistry.


Disclaimer: 0L

But how can you really go wrong with this choice?


Well, over half of UT students don't get biglaw or midlaw. That only leaves government, non-profits, small law, and underemployment. OP says small law may kill him (presumably the other options aren't appealing as well). So there is a very good chance things don't work out for him.


Yeah that is my concern, but I still think this is the best option I'll have even if I sit out and retake. At least at the 18k debtload I don't have to get biglaw to pay it off, I can venture off into chemistry industry (possibly, if the JD doesn't scare them away).


Its a great deal for someone who really wants to be a lawyer. And I totally agree that it will be hard to get a better law school option. The only real concern is: do you really want to be a lawyer? Many who start in big/midlaw end up in gov. or small law. Many like it there. My concern is that your beef with anything outside mid/biglaw might indicate that you really aren't that interested in legal work at all. Normally people that feel that only big/midlaw is acceptable feel that way because of debt, but that's not your concern apparently.

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Attax
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Attax » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:32 pm

Nomo wrote:
Its a great deal for someone who really wants to be a lawyer. And I totally agree that it will be hard to get a better law school option. The only real concern is: do you really want to be a lawyer? Many who start in big/midlaw end up in gov. or small law. Many like it there. My concern is that your beef with anything outside mid/biglaw might indicate that you really aren't that interested in legal work at all. Normally people that feel that only big/midlaw is acceptable feel that way because of debt, but that's not your concern apparently.


Good point, and I should have worded it better. That would not make me happy as an initial job out of LS. I wouldn't mind it in the end, but definitely do not want that to be a starting point for me.

alex22
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby alex22 » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:46 pm

Goals: Midlaw, Biglaw, business counsel
Ties: Richmond (very strong) DC (so-so)
Schools: Richmond (45k) W&M (75k) (COA)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA outside scholarship

Nomo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Nomo » Mon Apr 14, 2014 6:55 pm

alex22 wrote:Goals: Midlaw, Biglaw, business counsel
Ties: Richmond (very strong) DC (so-so)
Schools: Richmond (45k) W&M (75k) (COA)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA outside scholarship


Midlaw barely exists and almost nobody from those schools is getting it. Biglaw does exist and almost nobody from those schools are getting it. If you mean in-house counsel to a business, that certainly exists, but its something you do after working for a while. Basically, its very unlikely you will achieve your goals at these schools. If plan D, E, and F are more realistic and you're actually excited about them then go ahead (assuming what you're posting is 3 year debt numbers).

But, it sounds to me like you don't really know what you want to do. I suspect your someone who thinks (perhaps rightfully) that you're smart and a good researcher and writer, so you should go to law school. And you'd like to make good money so you threw down the three jobs that you think will pay well. If that's who you are then you need to go to Columbia (or a similar school) with total debt no more than 200k . . . and even then I would recommend doing a lot more research into the legal profession.

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blink
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby blink » Mon Apr 14, 2014 11:50 pm

Nomo wrote:
blink wrote:Posted this several pages back but now I'm all done hearing from schools:

blink wrote:
Goals: JAG => USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Duke (48k), Georgetown (sticker), Vandy (80k), UCLA (90k) WashU (81k)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA. Splitter, LSAT > all medians outside the T6. WL'd at Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, Michigan, Virginia, Cornell.


Are you in the military already? Because getting JAG will be no walk in the park. And jumping from JAG to AUSA isn't exactly easy either. What's plan B, plan C, and plan D? What are you totally uninterested in?


No military, but my resume screams PI and I'll be focusing on JAG from day 1.

Plan B: clerk for a year or two if necessary and continue to apply to JAG.
Plan C: biglaw? This option isn't something I'd like but if need be, I'd do it.
Plan D: be the token white guy at the end of coach K's bench to hold everyone else back when Jabari hits a big shot.

I guess I'd be totally uninterested in being unsuccessful, whatever that might mean.

El Principe
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby El Principe » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:09 am

Since I got ignored last go-around.

Goals: I want to end up either in-house at a corporation or working for the Federal Government, however, I know both of these aren't likely w/o law firm experience, so immediate goals are clearly BigLaw -> Lateral.
Ties: TX
Schools: UT (COA: 100K)
Other Info: K-JD applicant, graduated early so will have at least 6 months or so of semi-decent WE before LS, don't make enough money currently to sustain myself (would have to live with parents or get a promotion if I sat out a cycle, at least temporarily).

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Onomatopoeia
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Onomatopoeia » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:56 am

Attax wrote:Gonna hop on this thread now that I've deposited only one place:

Goals: Patent Lit biglaw in Texas, but wouldn't mind midlaw. Small law may kill me though.

Ties: Texas

School(s) - COA over 3 years:
Texas - $18k


Other info: No spouse, will use loans for the $18k. Held at NU and would probably be paying near sticker to attend there. I am not strongly minded to stay in Texas my entire life, but I have ties here and particularly in patent work, it is my cheapest option and the best school I've been admitted to, but I only have a BS in Chemistry.


Did you get a full ride? How is your COA over 3 years = 18k? You'd need to have gotten a huge stipend in addition to a full tuition/fees to make this possible, no?

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thevuch
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby thevuch » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:18 am

UGA at 10k a year tuition, COA 22k a year estimated. just want a legal job in georgia. wont have to take out loans. big law would be great but doing small law in rural georgia is ok by me. ties in macon, atlanta, and birmingham

or bama at 5k a year tuition, COA 17k a year estimated. grew up in bama though, kind of sick of it. want to get out

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mrs.miawallace
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby mrs.miawallace » Tue Apr 15, 2014 6:22 am

under the 'Reasonable alternative for half or better scholarship' column.

WUSTL or BC. family connection is generally on the east coast(DC, baltimore, philly), WUSTL(20k per year) BC(8k per year). shit loads of money provided by parent(just saying this so no one tell me to retake or drop the whole idea of law school at all)

goal: biglaw and business counseL

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rayiner
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rayiner » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:24 am

Attax wrote:Gonna hop on this thread now that I've deposited only one place:

Goals: Patent Lit biglaw in Texas, but wouldn't mind midlaw. Small law may kill me though.

Ties: Texas

School(s) - COA over 3 years:
Texas - $18k


Other info: No spouse, will use loans for the $18k. Held at NU and would probably be paying near sticker to attend there. I am not strongly minded to stay in Texas my entire life, but I have ties here and particularly in patent work, it is my cheapest option and the best school I've been admitted to, but I only have a BS in Chemistry.


IP background? Have fun!

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rayiner
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rayiner » Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:28 am

thevuch wrote:UGA at 10k a year tuition, COA 22k a year estimated. just want a legal job in georgia. wont have to take out loans. big law would be great but doing small law in rural georgia is ok by me. ties in macon, atlanta, and birmingham

or bama at 5k a year tuition, COA 17k a year estimated. grew up in bama though, kind of sick of it. want to get out


I think UGA is a great deal.

de5igual
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby de5igual » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:20 pm

El Principe wrote:Since I got ignored last go-around.

Goals: I want to end up either in-house at a corporation or working for the Federal Government, however, I know both of these aren't likely w/o law firm experience, so immediate goals are clearly BigLaw -> Lateral.
Ties: TX
Schools: UT (COA: 100K)
Other Info: K-JD applicant, graduated early so will have at least 6 months or so of semi-decent WE before LS, don't make enough money currently to sustain myself (would have to live with parents or get a promotion if I sat out a cycle, at least temporarily).


UT's not horrible at that price, but if it's feasible, do plan a retake to lower that COA even more.

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JCougar
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JCougar » Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:55 pm

alex22 wrote:Goals: Midlaw, Biglaw, business counsel
Ties: Richmond (very strong) DC (so-so)
Schools: Richmond (45k) W&M (75k) (COA)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA outside scholarship


Don't go to law school.

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reasonable_man
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby reasonable_man » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:21 am

JCougar wrote:
alex22 wrote:Goals: Midlaw, Biglaw, business counsel
Ties: Richmond (very strong) DC (so-so)
Schools: Richmond (45k) W&M (75k) (COA)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA outside scholarship


Don't go to law school.



I work in midlaw.... I'm trying to remember the last time we hired a 2L or 3L.... I've got nothing...

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:24 am

mrs.miawallace wrote:under the 'Reasonable alternative for half or better scholarship' column.

WUSTL or BC. family connection is generally on the east coast(DC, baltimore, philly), WUSTL(20k per year) BC(8k per year). shit loads of money provided by parent(just saying this so no one tell me to retake or drop the whole idea of law school at all)

goal: biglaw and business counseL

Schools aren't good for your goals

If you're srs about those goals then retake

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 16, 2014 12:24 am

JCougar wrote:
alex22 wrote:Goals: Midlaw, Biglaw, business counsel
Ties: Richmond (very strong) DC (so-so)
Schools: Richmond (45k) W&M (75k) (COA)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA outside scholarship


Don't go to law school.

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mrs.miawallace
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby mrs.miawallace » Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:09 am

t6
Last edited by mrs.miawallace on Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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prezidentv8
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby prezidentv8 » Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:39 am

reasonable_man wrote:
JCougar wrote:
alex22 wrote:Goals: Midlaw, Biglaw, business counsel
Ties: Richmond (very strong) DC (so-so)
Schools: Richmond (45k) W&M (75k) (COA)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA outside scholarship


Don't go to law school.



I work in midlaw.... I'm trying to remember the last time we hired a 2L or 3L.... I've got nothing...



If TLS were a country, you'd be a national treasure.

Nomo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Nomo » Wed Apr 16, 2014 4:02 am

blink wrote:
Nomo wrote:
blink wrote:Posted this several pages back but now I'm all done hearing from schools:

blink wrote:
Goals: JAG => USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Duke (48k), Georgetown (sticker), Vandy (80k), UCLA (90k) WashU (81k)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA. Splitter, LSAT > all medians outside the T6. WL'd at Columbia, Penn, Northwestern, Michigan, Virginia, Cornell.


Are you in the military already? Because getting JAG will be no walk in the park. And jumping from JAG to AUSA isn't exactly easy either. What's plan B, plan C, and plan D? What are you totally uninterested in?


No military, but my resume screams PI and I'll be focusing on JAG from day 1.

Plan B: clerk for a year or two if necessary and continue to apply to JAG.
Plan C: biglaw? This option isn't something I'd like but if need be, I'd do it.
Plan D: be the token white guy at the end of coach K's bench to hold everyone else back when Jabari hits a big shot.

I guess I'd be totally uninterested in being unsuccessful, whatever that might mean.


The problem is that if you gun hard for JAG and don't get it you're out of the running for biglaw. That's a serious problem. So Biglaw can't really be plan C . . . You need to know what plan C is before you enroll and you need to feel good about it. Even if you were gunning for biglaw you'd still need a backup plan and that's true for everyone outside HYS and I guess CCN.

Assuming you've got a realistic backup plan that you're happy with I'll discuss your options . . . I would go for low cost of attendance. What you really want is JAG, and JAG isn't that prestige obsessed. If you have thee options you should probably look for a school where you've got an even lower cost of attendance. A full-ride, or something close to it, at a state flagship should be your ideal goal, a place like Ohio State since you're from Ohio might make sense. There's no point in blowing cash on Duke or UCLA if you don't want biglaw. Your JAG backup options are most likely going to be PD, DA, legal aid, insurance defense, etc. These jobs, like JAG, pay good money, but its not good enough with high debt. You should minimize debt.

Full disclosure: I went to MVPB with somewhat similar career goals. I graduated with about 150k debt. I got a job, and I like it, but I regret the way I handled my cycle. I had a chance to go to a top 50 state flagship for about 50k of debt. I wish I had gone to the state flagship school.

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:07 am

Gunning hard for jag (doing jag 1L and 2L simmer) you won't be doing OCI

People don't realize that the only time big firms recruit students is at the beginning of the second year




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