ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

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bsktbll28082
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby bsktbll28082 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 5:24 pm

JCougar wrote:
bsktbll28082 wrote:Yes, I have factored in the cost of living.


You say you have ties to DC. Do you have family you could stay with there to reduce COL?

Transferring to G-Town is risky, but you're going to have to pay sticker anywhere you transfer.


Not family, no. But I could find a roommate probably pretty easily through friends and such. However, for my rent/utilities I have allotted around 1500$ (which could get me at least a studio in DC). I'm comfortable keeping that number.

The main hike at GULC would be the jump in tuition. Currently paying around 32k I think; GULC is 60k.

El Principe
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby El Principe » Fri Feb 21, 2014 8:42 pm

Not sure if you guys are still going but...

Goal(s): Biglaw (TX or CA)
Regional Ties: Lifelong Texas resident. Family in Dallas & Houston.
School(s): Accepted at Vanderbilt. WLed at GULC & NW. Pending Duke, Cornell, & UT, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Other pertinent information:
-Undergrad loans ~ 20K; parents able to help pay-off while in LS.
-K-JD. Currently have a marketing job, easy hours, so plenty of time for LSAT prep.
-Admittedly underprepared for LSAT. No prep-tests, and only worked timed sections for LR.

Do I take Vandy, which from the looks of things, will probably be sticker or close to it, or do I just wait a year and retake, seeing as I'm extremely confident that if I actually study, I can tremendously boost my score?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Feb 21, 2014 9:17 pm

El Principe wrote:Not sure if you guys are still going but...

Goal(s): Biglaw (TX or CA)
Regional Ties: Lifelong Texas resident. Family in Dallas & Houston.
School(s): Accepted at Vanderbilt. WLed at GULC & NW. Pending Duke, Cornell, & UT, but I'm not getting my hopes up.
Other pertinent information:
-Undergrad loans ~ 20K; parents able to help pay-off while in LS.
-K-JD. Currently have a marketing job, easy hours, so plenty of time for LSAT prep.
-Admittedly underprepared for LSAT. No prep-tests, and only worked timed sections for LR.

Do I take Vandy, which from the looks of things, will probably be sticker or close to it, or do I just wait a year and retake, seeing as I'm extremely confident that if I actually study, I can tremendously boost my score?

You know what everyone's going to say, right?

El Principe
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby El Principe » Sat Feb 22, 2014 2:21 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:You know what everyone's going to say, right?


humor me

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:00 pm

El Principe wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:You know what everyone's going to say, right?


humor me

Just trying to spare you from the inevitable cries of "retake." :D

More seriously, your GPA is good (if your stat box is correct), and you don't list your LSAT but you admit that you underperformed (why would you take the test without having done any prep tests or worked the other sections timed??). Vandy is a good school, but not especially so for TX or CA, and sticker's a lot of money. Improve your LSAT, which you admit that you can, and you'd have $$ at lots of school. And you're K-JD, so there's absolutely no pressure (or even good reason) to attend this year rather than taking a year off.

As for which T14 (or UT/UCLA) is the best to get you to TX/CA biglaw, I'm not the best person to give advice on that, but I'm pretty sure from hanging out on TLS long enough that Vandy at sticker isn't a great choice for that goal (despite your TX ties).

LyonKing
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby LyonKing » Sat Feb 22, 2014 3:00 pm

Goal: Biglaw
School: Temple (in state tuition minus scholly= $2500/yr)
Ties: Born and raised in the area; related to or family friends w/ several partners, including former hiring partner, at a V100 firm; worked for an asset management company in the area
Undergrad: MD/VA/NC region

EDIT: Interested in Philly market

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JCougar
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JCougar » Sat Feb 22, 2014 4:20 pm

LyonKing wrote:Goal: Biglaw
School: Temple (in state tuition minus scholly= $2500/yr)
Ties: Born and raised in the area; related to or family friends w/ several partners, including former hiring partner, at a V100 firm; worked for an asset management company in the area
Undergrad: MD/VA/NC region

EDIT: Interested in Philly market


If your goal is Biglaw, Temple has a 7% large firm score on LST.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=temple

Those aren't good odds, even with your connections. Either give up the Biglaw plans or try to get into a significantly better school.

You also only have a 52% shot at getting any lawyer job at all from Temple (even the shitty ones). So even if you can minimize your debt there, that's something to consider.

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yossarian
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby yossarian » Sat Feb 22, 2014 5:24 pm

Feel free to tell me this question doesn't belong in this thread, but there has been some t14 talk already and it doesn't seem worth starting a new thread.

PS: I sort of feel like this is the thread for value considerations of t7-14.

What would you pay for Michigan?

Goal: Biglaw, AIII, or preftigious gov
Region: Midwest, ties midwest

Thanks much

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BlueLotus
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Feb 22, 2014 7:07 pm

JCougar wrote:
LyonKing wrote:Goal: Biglaw
School: Temple (in state tuition minus scholly= $2500/yr)
Ties: Born and raised in the area; related to or family friends w/ several partners, including former hiring partner, at a V100 firm; worked for an asset management company in the area
Undergrad: MD/VA/NC region

EDIT: Interested in Philly market


If your goal is Biglaw, Temple has a 7% large firm score on LST.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=temple

Those aren't good odds, even with your connections. Either give up the Biglaw plans or try to get into a significantly better school.

You also only have a 52% shot at getting any lawyer job at all from Temple (even the shitty ones). So even if you can minimize your debt there, that's something to consider.


JCougar, if I want Philly PI (PD/Legal Aid) would it be a good idea to do my 3L year as a visiting student at Temple?

Currently going to a T30. Would be living with parents that year to keep costs down.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sat Feb 22, 2014 11:31 pm

yossarian71 wrote:Feel free to tell me this question doesn't belong in this thread, but there has been some t14 talk already and it doesn't seem worth starting a new thread.

PS: I sort of feel like this is the thread for value considerations of t7-14.

What would you pay for Michigan?

Goal: Biglaw, AIII, or preftigious gov
Region: Midwest, ties midwest

Thanks much


Michigan gives you a 50/50 shot at what you want. I'd probably pay around 120k max to go to Michigan.

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JCougar
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby JCougar » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:23 am

BlueLotus wrote:JCougar, if I want Philly PI (PD/Legal Aid) would it be a good idea to do my 3L year as a visiting student at Temple?

Currently going to a T30. Would be living with parents that year to keep costs down.


This really doesn't sound like a bad idea (provided you're saving money overall by doing the Temple visiting student thing), especially if you can work it into your interviews that the reason why you're doing it is because a) you really want to work in Philly, and b) you need to save money for the specific reason that you're going to be doing PI work.

If you use that time networking in Philly (a market where you do have extremely good ties, it seems), I think this decision is an overall win.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby californiauser » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:26 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
yossarian71 wrote:Feel free to tell me this question doesn't belong in this thread, but there has been some t14 talk already and it doesn't seem worth starting a new thread.

PS: I sort of feel like this is the thread for value considerations of t7-14.

What would you pay for Michigan?

Goal: Biglaw, AIII, or preftigious gov
Region: Midwest, ties midwest

Thanks much


Michigan gives you a 50/50 shot at what you want. I'd probably pay around 120k max to go to Michigan.


would this number change at all, in your opinion, if one wanted NYC big law?

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sun Feb 23, 2014 4:46 pm

californiauser wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
yossarian71 wrote:Feel free to tell me this question doesn't belong in this thread, but there has been some t14 talk already and it doesn't seem worth starting a new thread.

PS: I sort of feel like this is the thread for value considerations of t7-14.

What would you pay for Michigan?

Goal: Biglaw, AIII, or preftigious gov
Region: Midwest, ties midwest

Thanks much


Michigan gives you a 50/50 shot at what you want. I'd probably pay around 120k max to go to Michigan.


would this number change at all, in your opinion, if one wanted NYC big law?


No.

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Otunga
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Otunga » Sun Feb 23, 2014 6:48 pm

I'm making a similar scenario as the guy asking about Michigan, since it's related to biglaw and mid/lower t14. Goals are more complicated than just biglaw (since I know interests develop in LS), but suppose that's all it is.

Goal: Biglaw
Region: Boston, and wouldn't be too into NYC, but would do it depending on amount of loans taken out and if Boston wasn't obtained.
Ties: New England (50 mins outside Boston)

What's the ceiling on Virginia? What about Cornell?

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Sun Feb 23, 2014 7:20 pm

Otunga wrote:I'm making a similar scenario as the guy asking about Michigan, since it's related to biglaw and mid/lower t14. Goals are more complicated than just biglaw (since I know interests develop in LS), but suppose that's all it is.

Goal: Biglaw
Region: Boston, and wouldn't be too into NYC, but would do it depending on amount of loans taken out and if Boston wasn't obtained.
Ties: New England (50 mins outside Boston)

What's the ceiling on Virginia? What about Cornell?

Depends on so much other shit. Hard to say in a vacuum

maowbrana
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby maowbrana » Mon Feb 24, 2014 8:23 pm

Michigan @ 58k/year
Native Michigander
Biglaw, eventually academia

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Blindmelon
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Blindmelon » Thu Feb 27, 2014 1:11 pm

Otunga wrote:I'm making a similar scenario as the guy asking about Michigan, since it's related to biglaw and mid/lower t14. Goals are more complicated than just biglaw (since I know interests develop in LS), but suppose that's all it is.

Goal: Biglaw
Region: Boston, and wouldn't be too into NYC, but would do it depending on amount of loans taken out and if Boston wasn't obtained.
Ties: New England (50 mins outside Boston)

What's the ceiling on Virginia? What about Cornell?


I'd take half scholly or more - not because your chances would be bad from UVA/Cornell (great schools for Boston, so not bad choices to have) but because debt is terrible and sinking 200k is generally never a good idea. Coming out 100/120k in debt would be managable though I think.

elcali
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby elcali » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:11 pm

:arrow:
Last edited by elcali on Mon Jul 28, 2014 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sat Mar 01, 2014 7:12 pm

elcali wrote:Hi Folks please pitch in and give some advice:

Schools admitted:
GW (perhaps at sticker, need to negotiate)

background: electrical engineering masters from a good school
Interest: IP either in DC or Cali

Career prospects?


You have an MS in EE from a good school and want to go to law school? Why?

hukchobo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby hukchobo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:41 am

Goal(s): big/mid/shit law (ANYWHERE; even overseas)
Regional Ties: NONE; born in socal, went to school in indiana, family in NC, DC, CA, IL but that's about it. I actually have much more ties in Asia (SK, HK, SG, JP) however, I am more than willing to stay where I go to law school. don't have residency in any state but US citizen.
School(s): Accepted at GW(no money so far), UIUC($$$), UGA($+tuition equalizer), IU($$), WISC(no money so far), SMU($$), KENT($$$)
Pending: NW, WM, WL, MIN, WUSTL, BC, EMORY, USC, UH, ND
Other pertinent information: 165+ used up all 3 chances at LSAT (studied like hell; next available June 2015), <2.8 GPA, 5+ WE (but no real career options), biz major, 30+ yrs old, semi debt averse, fully bi-lingual (east asian language)

So far, the best value+job prospects I have available is UGA (assuming I get in-state starting 2L) and UIUC (planning on negotiating later). I'm in a situation where if I don't go to law school I'll be doing the same thing until I retire (or let go) with no opportunities to move up or make more than what I'm making now (~48k). I am not willing to pay sticker ANYWHERE. Don't care if hogwarts offered me a seat. I am not taking out more than 50k total in loans. I have enough money saved up to pay 4 years COL (in case I have to work for free/unemployed after I graduate) so tuition is the only money I need to borrow.

Is UGA/UIUC worth ~50K debt when calculating odds of a decent outcome?

PLEASE do not say RETAKE.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:54 am

hukchobo wrote:PLEASE do not say RETAKE.



Okay. Don't go. If you have 4 yrs of COL saved up, that's $80k, assuming $20k/yr in living expenses. There's a decent chance that you'll come out of these schools making $50k, which is about what you're making now. Only now you've burned through $60-80k in savings and have $50k in debt.
Last edited by Bikeflip on Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

hukchobo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby hukchobo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:00 am

Bikeflip wrote:
hukchobo wrote:PLEASE do not say RETAKE.



Okay. Don't go. If you have 4 yrs of COL saved up, that's $80k, assuming $20k/yr in living expenses. There's a decent chance that you'll come out of these schools making $50k, which is about what you're making now. Only now you've burned through $60k in savings and have $50k in debt.



Thanks for the quick reply. One follow up question then. What about future income? I'm dead serious when I say I have no future at my current place/industry. Would you still recommend me not to go? Don't know if this is relevant ITE but I honestly do want to become a lawyer.

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Bikeflip
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Mar 06, 2014 4:13 am

hukchobo wrote:
Bikeflip wrote:
hukchobo wrote:PLEASE do not say RETAKE.



Okay. Don't go. If you have 4 yrs of COL saved up, that's $80k, assuming $20k/yr in living expenses. There's a decent chance that you'll come out of these schools making $50k, which is about what you're making now. Only now you've burned through $60k in savings and have $50k in debt.



Thanks for the quick reply. One follow up question then. What about future income? I'm dead serious when I say I have no future at my current place/industry. Would you still recommend me not to go? Don't know if this is relevant ITE but I honestly do want to become a lawyer.


I considered your future income, and I'm still hesitant to say you should go. The reason why is you're giving up a sure thing for a gamble that you're paying $110,000-$130,000 once you factor in the debt and your savings. You could get big law, or you could get doc review. Most likely, you're coming out and the exact same amount of money, but you just spent 3 yrs of your life to do so.

What's the exact amount of tuition you'd be paying at each school?
Last edited by Bikeflip on Thu Mar 06, 2014 6:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nomo
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Nomo » Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:09 am

maowbrana wrote:Michigan @ 58k/year
Native Michigander
Biglaw, eventually academia


If academia is important to you don't go. You've got a 50% chance at biglaw, so you'll need to comfortable with a lower paying job. But, now that Obama doesn't like PSLF you can't be ok with that. I wouldn't pay more 15k/yr in tuition (remember to expect tuition increases).

killer133
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby killer133 » Thu Mar 06, 2014 8:31 am

Goal(s): Biglaw in New York or Denver
Regional Ties: Not strong ties anywhere in US. Stationed as military in Colorado for 3 years, lived in New York for 3 years. Lived in the US 6 years total.
School(s): Virginia (0), Michigan (0), Colorado-Boulder (0)
Other pertinent information: GI Bill., waiting on Yellow Ribbon Program info, I'm 100% eligible so I should be able to go free at NYU as well. Went to undergrad in foreign country (full scholarship), meaning no current debt.

Here's my issue. I looked into Denver biglaw firms (not that many...) and they only do OCI at Colorado Boulder and Denver University, which have terrible job prospects . But I would like to go to Denver firms because $120K in Denver is a lot more powerful than $160K in New York, plus the hours are much better. But, obviously, I'd rather be in NYC bigfirm than jobless or horrible job in Denver. Do I pretty much have to go to NYC and then lateral after 2-3 yrs?




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