ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

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rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:26 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Review
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:37 am

NavyJAG1 wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
blink wrote:ITT: practicing attorneys give the advice. Any practitioners want to weigh in? FWIW, USAO is a long term goal for me, after the JAG corps

I am not sure that any of the current practitioners ITT have much experience with JAG, although I know there are at least one or two hanging around that do. You're not overlooked, I just want to make sure that someone who actually CAN help you does so. As for USAO, my understanding (and I may be mistaken) is that it is typically not an entry-level position.


USAO, is relatively common for transitioning JAGS, particularly if you can get a lot of trial experience. The Navy uses a whole person standard, but in the last few boards, there have been LSAT/GPA cutoffs. We also tend to focus our recruiting on the top 100 schools from USNWR. Selection is not arbitrary.

If I am not mistaken, you made a JAG guide on here, right? Or was that someone else? I can't seem to find it now.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Marquis » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:08 pm

Goal(s): Local Midlaw, JAG, State Gov.
Local Ties: Maine (born & raised, lots of family contacts including local attorneys & state senator.) ; Boston (Current hometown with some minor contacts, mostly in finance/business)
School(s): UMaine (Total COA: 90k) ; Northeastern (Total COA: 88K)
Other Info: Discounted COL @ both schools due to working spouse/living with family etc. I have 9 years of full-time work experience in the financial sector including non-profit work which hopefully helps during the eventual job hunt.

The above is very tentative since it is still early in the cycle. I've only heard back from about half the schools I applied to and I have not begun negotiating for larger scholarships. New England is my #1 region with Boston, MA. & Portland, ME. being the places I would be ideally looking to work. I'm still waiting to hear back from BC & BU which I know have much stronger placement. Getting into either BC or BU at a reasonable cost would probably make me add Boston Biglaw to my list of goals, but it is not currently a priority.

I also have some good scholarship offers from schools in the upper T1 which I am confident I could use to leverage better offers from both UMaine and Northeastern. So the totals listed above are the current COA, but I am confident the final COA at both schools will be (hopefully significantly) lower. UMaine doesn't get much love on TLS, I know, but it is the only law school in Maine and seems to pretty much dominate the in-state market. A fairly thorough scan of the associates at the largest Maine firms (Pierce Atwood, Verrill Dana etc.) seems to show a strong trend towards hiring UMaine grads. Maine is a state that definitely requires strong ties, but I think I have them. My running theory is: if you know you want to work in Maine, have strong local ties, and can keep COA to a minimum, Maine can be a strong choice. I throw this theory at the feet of this thread's collective wisdom to see if it can stand up to professional scrutiny. As a secondary question: with the above info, what total COA would make BC/BU a reasonable choice?

Thank you!

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worldtraveler
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:33 pm

Marquis wrote:Goal(s): Local Midlaw, JAG, State Gov.
Local Ties: Maine (born & raised, lots of family contacts including local attorneys & state senator.) ; Boston (Current hometown with some minor contacts, mostly in finance/business)
School(s): UMaine (Total COA: 90k) ; Northeastern (Total COA: 88K)
Other Info: Discounted COL @ both schools due to working spouse/living with family etc. I have 9 years of full-time work experience in the financial sector including non-profit work which hopefully helps during the eventual job hunt.

The above is very tentative since it is still early in the cycle. I've only heard back from about half the schools I applied to and I have not begun negotiating for larger scholarships. New England is my #1 region with Boston, MA. & Portland, ME. being the places I would be ideally looking to work. I'm still waiting to hear back from BC & BU which I know have much stronger placement. Getting into either BC or BU at a reasonable cost would probably make me add Boston Biglaw to my list of goals, but it is not currently a priority.

I also have some good scholarship offers from schools in the upper T1 which I am confident I could use to leverage better offers from both UMaine and Northeastern. So the totals listed above are the current COA, but I am confident the final COA at both schools will be (hopefully significantly) lower. UMaine doesn't get much love on TLS, I know, but it is the only law school in Maine and seems to pretty much dominate the in-state market. A fairly thorough scan of the associates at the largest Maine firms (Pierce Atwood, Verrill Dana etc.) seems to show a strong trend towards hiring UMaine grads. Maine is a state that definitely requires strong ties, but I think I have them. My running theory is: if you know you want to work in Maine, have strong local ties, and can keep COA to a minimum, Maine can be a strong choice. I throw this theory at the feet of this thread's collective wisdom to see if it can stand up to professional scrutiny. As a secondary question: with the above info, what total COA would make BC/BU a reasonable choice?

Thank you!


You have 9 years in another field and want to take out 6 figures in debt? No.

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blink
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby blink » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:39 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
blink wrote:
twenty wrote:
blink wrote:Goals: JAG/USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Lower T-14 sticker, Vandy WashU OSU (no word on $$$), UCLA Minnesota (30k/yr scholarships)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA.


Not an attorney, but you should probably seriously reconsider your goals or else retake and aim higher. Most AUSA offices have a de facto requirement of a federal clerkship now. One spot will get, like, 300 applications, and being a JAG officer is not going to make you stand out. Furthermore, JAG is very difficult to get (even if you are gunning for it) to the point where selection is almost arbitrary.

If you really want AUSA, your best bet is to lateral in after a few years in DOJ Honors.


ITT: practicing attorneys give the advice. Any practitioners want to weigh in? FWIW, USAO is a long term goal for me, after the JAG corps


Which T14s?

I actually find your question maybe the toughest one to answer of the whole thread because this career path is just tough to get no matter the ranking of the school, and if you don't get a government job you don't want to be stuck with debt.

Are you sure you're actually eligible for JAG? Can pass the physical, etc.?

If I were you I would grill your potential schools on who they have placed in JAG and whether you can talk to them. See what they say.


Duke and Georgetown so far. The physical requirements will be fine for me. I'm a 6'2/185 male who is very active. I'm also aware of the specific fitness requirements for a perfect score and I'm working towards those on a daily basis right now. I also have significant leadership experience post-undergrad that I'm hoping will help me.

Who do I email to ask those questions? Career services? Admissions?

Thanks for the advice! I'd love to hear more about his from anyone who cares to share.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:47 pm

blink wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
blink wrote:Goals: JAG/USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Lower T-14 sticker, Vandy WashU OSU (no word on $$$), UCLA Minnesota (30k/yr scholarships)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA.


Which T14s?

I actually find your question maybe the toughest one to answer of the whole thread because this career path is just tough to get no matter the ranking of the school, and if you don't get a government job you don't want to be stuck with debt.

Are you sure you're actually eligible for JAG? Can pass the physical, etc.?

If I were you I would grill your potential schools on who they have placed in JAG and whether you can talk to them. See what they say.


Duke and Georgetown so far. The physical requirements will be fine for me. I'm a 6'2/185 male who is very active. I'm also aware of the specific fitness requirements for a perfect score and I'm working towards those on a daily basis right now. I also have significant leadership experience post-undergrad that I'm hoping will help me.

Who do I email to ask those questions? Career services? Admissions?

Thanks for the advice! I'd love to hear more about his from anyone who cares to share.


Duke actually sounds like a good school for you. See if you can negotiate.

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worldtraveler
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:49 pm

blink wrote:
Duke and Georgetown so far. The physical requirements will be fine for me. I'm a 6'2/185 male who is very active. I'm also aware of the specific fitness requirements for a perfect score and I'm working towards those on a daily basis right now. I also have significant leadership experience post-undergrad that I'm hoping will help me.

Who do I email to ask those questions? Career services? Admissions?

Thanks for the advice! I'd love to hear more about his from anyone who cares to share.


I would email admissions and say you want to be put in touch with alums or even current students with JAG offers.

The other thing to check is whether JAG directly recruits at the school (I think they go to all T14s?).

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Marquis » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:50 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
Marquis wrote:Goal(s): Local Midlaw, JAG, State Gov.
Local Ties: Maine (born & raised, lots of family contacts including local attorneys & state senator.) ; Boston (Current hometown with some minor contacts, mostly in finance/business)
School(s): UMaine (Total COA: 90k) ; Northeastern (Total COA: 88K)
Other Info: Discounted COL @ both schools due to working spouse/living with family etc. I have 9 years of full-time work experience in the financial sector including non-profit work which hopefully helps during the eventual job hunt.

The above is very tentative since it is still early in the cycle. I've only heard back from about half the schools I applied to and I have not begun negotiating for larger scholarships. New England is my #1 region with Boston, MA. & Portland, ME. being the places I would be ideally looking to work. I'm still waiting to hear back from BC & BU which I know have much stronger placement. Getting into either BC or BU at a reasonable cost would probably make me add Boston Biglaw to my list of goals, but it is not currently a priority.

I also have some good scholarship offers from schools in the upper T1 which I am confident I could use to leverage better offers from both UMaine and Northeastern. So the totals listed above are the current COA, but I am confident the final COA at both schools will be (hopefully significantly) lower. UMaine doesn't get much love on TLS, I know, but it is the only law school in Maine and seems to pretty much dominate the in-state market. A fairly thorough scan of the associates at the largest Maine firms (Pierce Atwood, Verrill Dana etc.) seems to show a strong trend towards hiring UMaine grads. Maine is a state that definitely requires strong ties, but I think I have them. My running theory is: if you know you want to work in Maine, have strong local ties, and can keep COA to a minimum, Maine can be a strong choice. I throw this theory at the feet of this thread's collective wisdom to see if it can stand up to professional scrutiny. As a secondary question: with the above info, what total COA would make BC/BU a reasonable choice?

Thank you!


You have 9 years in another field and want to take out 6 figures in debt? No.


Actually, no, I don't. Perhaps I did not make it clear in my earlier post: I will not take out 6 figures in debt. I am, however, willing to take on some debt to get out of a pretty dead-end job in a field I have no real attachment to which also happens to pay a less than desirable salary. This is, more than anything, an attempt at determining what is an acceptable level of debt. The COAs I listed are presently higher than I am comfortable with, but, as I said, I anticipate being able to negotiate them down using scholarship offers from higher ranked schools. I suppose I was really hoping that someone might offer an opinion on how far down those figures would have to drop to be a worthwhile investment. I should have done a better job of explicitly stating that in my first post.

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Dr. Review
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:04 pm

Marquis wrote:Actually, no, I don't. Perhaps I did not make it clear in my earlier post: I will not take out 6 figures in debt. I am, however, willing to take on some debt to get out of a pretty dead-end job in a field I have no real attachment to which also happens to pay a less than desirable salary. This is, more than anything, an attempt at determining what is an acceptable level of debt. The COAs I listed are presently higher than I am comfortable with, but, as I said, I anticipate being able to negotiate them down using scholarship offers from higher ranked schools. I suppose I was really hoping that someone might offer an opinion on how far down those figures would have to drop to be a worthwhile investment. I should have done a better job of explicitly stating that in my first post.

I know that I have it in the OP, and I know that it has been mentioned elsewhere throughout the thread, but I strongly encourage you to add the opportunity cost of attending law school onto the cost to attend.

For example, let's say you currently make 40k/yr (much more than that and law school becomes less and less worth it). Let's also say that you have no chance of advancing, and that you may expect a COL-based raise of 3% annually. This means that your opportunity cost must include $40k for the first year, $41.2k for the second year, and $42.4k for the third year. This adds an effective cost of $123k to an already anticipated $90k in COA, bringing the total to $213k, plus tuition hikes, COL increases, and capitalization of interest (a factor you absolutely want to include). Let's also factor in that the 90K + capitalized interest will then accrue interest at 6.9-7.9% for the duration of the loan.

You're talking about a VERY expensive career change. Not counting capitalized interest or accrued interest during repayment, you'll need to recover $213,000 in additional income before you can break even.

It's important to remember that law school carries a not-insignificant risk of earning $0-$60k per year. At that rate, you're dealing with a VERY bad ROI. If you win the lottery and make $160k/yr, it'd take 3 years of working to earn enough to bring you back to a gross earnings baseline. Factoring in accrued interest on repayment and increased taxation on your wages, and it's safe to add a significant amount of time to that.

I know this is long, but it is an important assessment to make when entering law school, and one that people don't often consider. There's a tendency to go "DAT $160k JOB" and "I got $100k in scholarships, I am doing great!"

ETA: I realized that I did not add any SA earnings here. In the event that you land an SA and earn 30k over one summer, you've offset some of your opportunity fee, but not all.

tl;dr - best case scenario puts you as a 3rd-4th year associate with lifetime earnings equal to those of someone who stuck with a 40k/yr job.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:20 pm

Hate to jump in here but the above is a terrible way to account for opportunity cost. You can't assume someone staying in their job would bank the money that instead gets sent to the government for taxes and is used for other cost of living purposes.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby blink » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:32 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
blink wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
blink wrote:Goals: JAG/USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Lower T-14 sticker, Vandy WashU OSU (no word on $$$), UCLA Minnesota (30k/yr scholarships)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA.


Which T14s?

I actually find your question maybe the toughest one to answer of the whole thread because this career path is just tough to get no matter the ranking of the school, and if you don't get a government job you don't want to be stuck with debt.

Are you sure you're actually eligible for JAG? Can pass the physical, etc.?

If I were you I would grill your potential schools on who they have placed in JAG and whether you can talk to them. See what they say.


Duke and Georgetown so far. The physical requirements will be fine for me. I'm a 6'2/185 male who is very active. I'm also aware of the specific fitness requirements for a perfect score and I'm working towards those on a daily basis right now. I also have significant leadership experience post-undergrad that I'm hoping will help me.

Who do I email to ask those questions? Career services? Admissions?

Thanks for the advice! I'd love to hear more about his from anyone who cares to share.


Duke actually sounds like a good school for you. See if you can negotiate.


Even if it's at sticker? My thinking is, if I can't get JAG straight out of LS, then I can hopefully grab a clerkship and use that year to continue to apply to JAG. Is this a sound strategy?

And negotiate what exactly? Will Duke give money out to someone who is not receiving any other money offers in the T-14? Can I tell Duke that Georgetown's LRAP makes more sense for me than Duke and that's why I need some money?

Thanks

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby blink » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:33 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
blink wrote:
Duke and Georgetown so far. The physical requirements will be fine for me. I'm a 6'2/185 male who is very active. I'm also aware of the specific fitness requirements for a perfect score and I'm working towards those on a daily basis right now. I also have significant leadership experience post-undergrad that I'm hoping will help me.

Who do I email to ask those questions? Career services? Admissions?

Thanks for the advice! I'd love to hear more about his from anyone who cares to share.


I would email admissions and say you want to be put in touch with alums or even current students with JAG offers.

The other thing to check is whether JAG directly recruits at the school (I think they go to all T14s?).


This is a great idea. Thanks

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby blink » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:34 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:For the USAO person - I don't think pedigree of school matters as much as your grades, but in most cases, it's going to be your experience that weighs the most, because the USAOs generally don't hire entry level. (Sometimes you can get in through DOJ's honors program, but not all USAOs participate, sometimes none do, and you must have a federal clerkship to go that route). In some USAOs there are lots of people with state prosecutor experience, others hire a lot out of biglaw as well. I have also seen tons of former military at the USAO (though again, it can vary by office), so I think that/JAG is a very desirable route.

But for choosing a school - it's probably best to think about how it will help you get whatever position will help you get to the USAO (so in your case, JAG). If you're aiming SDNY, that might be as high up the T14 as you can get to get into a fancy biglaw firm to lateral over, and/or to help you get a federal clerkship. If you're thinking more like WDTX, I would go to a decent state school as cheap as you can and try to get work as an ADA. (These last are more the general you - I know you, the poster, mentioned JAG and I don't know much about how to get that.) Of course, the problem is that you can't/won't know which office is hiring when, but at least you can think about what would be more congenial to you as a preliminary (possibly only) step.


Yeah, I'm much less concerned about how or when I'll get USAO. All I want right now is JAG. If that opens USAO doors down the road, great. If not, I'll still be happy.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Blindmelon » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:58 pm

dean414 wrote:Might help more if I had heard back from all my schools I have applied to... But I only applied last Sunday.
3.1/163

I have applied to uconn (ct resident), bu, bc ( have honestly written off both as I don't want to pay anything close to sticker price), suffolk, north eastern, New England, western New England , roger Williams, quinnipiac ( applied but not really even considering it), Drexel , temple, penny state
I've heard back from Drexel (full ride), wne (full ride) , north eastern (30k per yr - 3/4 tuition)

I really want to practice in Boston, have a lot of interests and have family ties to a boston firm and another boston firm I have been working at full time. Going to try and leverage against northeastern showing the offers from other school and supplement with a wls addendum


Any reason not to go to northeastern? At this stage it is cheaper than uconn, although I guess will be about at par with uconn when living arrangements in bean town are considered.


If you want to work in Boston, CT, PA schools won't get you there. Northeastern is in rough shape - the top 5 to 10 students will do well, the rest its a crap shoot on whether you can pull off being a PD/ADA. I would retake - BC/BU's admit standards are way down. If you can pump up the lsat a few points you might be able to get a half-ride at one or the other - at half I would maybe go, but nothing less.

And for everyone in this threat - debt is evil. Even making 160k/year, full-tuition is a joke. You will spend a lot of time thinking about how you're working tons of hours only to pay off debt, but you spent all the money to get into a school that would allow you to work for a firm that would let you pay off the debt, then you will get pushed out in 3 years and end up in the same place as the people who went for a free ride somewhere else. I really think the best bet is trying to get a free ride into anything GW/Fordham/BC/BU level or better unless you can pull off HYS.
Last edited by Blindmelon on Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby twenty » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:01 pm

rad lulz wrote:That 0l poster didn't get the usual shit entirely right I'll post when I can


Then stop shitting up this thread


I'm sorry you're so angry. My sincerest apologies for irreparably damaging the thread.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:10 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:Hate to jump in here but the above is a terrible way to account for opportunity cost. You can't assume someone staying in their job would bank the money that instead gets sent to the government for taxes and is used for other cost of living purposes.

I'll assume for the sake of argument that you are 100% correct, despite the fact that I also neglected to remove taxes from the 160k/yr job, which results in a much larger loss on the back side than the added cost on the front end by the same mistaken assumption.

But assuming you are correct, calling my assumptions wrong is unhelpful. Instead, provide more accurate numbers. Regardless, opportunity cost is real, and people need to account for it. That's my point.

twenty wrote:
rad lulz wrote:That 0l poster didn't get the usual shit entirely right I'll post when I can


Then stop shitting up this thread


I'm sorry you're so angry. My sincerest apologies for irreparably damaging the thread.

Twenty, you often create some helpful threads. This isn't one of them.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:17 pm

Someone making 40k can probably save about 5-10k a year, and that's a reasonable opportunity cost to use. You have to ignore taxes and money they'd spend to live whether in law school or not.

It's fine to err on the high side of that estimate given the intangible benefits of working and developing a career.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Marquis » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:23 pm

Bedsole wrote:
Marquis wrote:Actually, no, I don't. Perhaps I did not make it clear in my earlier post: I will not take out 6 figures in debt. I am, however, willing to take on some debt to get out of a pretty dead-end job in a field I have no real attachment to which also happens to pay a less than desirable salary. This is, more than anything, an attempt at determining what is an acceptable level of debt. The COAs I listed are presently higher than I am comfortable with, but, as I said, I anticipate being able to negotiate them down using scholarship offers from higher ranked schools. I suppose I was really hoping that someone might offer an opinion on how far down those figures would have to drop to be a worthwhile investment. I should have done a better job of explicitly stating that in my first post.

I know that I have it in the OP, and I know that it has been mentioned elsewhere throughout the thread, but I strongly encourage you to add the opportunity cost of attending law school onto the cost to attend.

For example, let's say you currently make 40k/yr (much more than that and law school becomes less and less worth it). Let's also say that you have no chance of advancing, and that you may expect a COL-based raise of 3% annually. This means that your opportunity cost must include $40k for the first year, $41.2k for the second year, and $42.4k for the third year. This adds an effective cost of $123k to an already anticipated $90k in COA, bringing the total to $213k, plus tuition hikes, COL increases, and capitalization of interest (a factor you absolutely want to include). Let's also factor in that the 90K + capitalized interest will then accrue interest at 6.9-7.9% for the duration of the loan.

You're talking about a VERY expensive career change. Not counting capitalized interest or accrued interest during repayment, you'll need to recover $213,000 in additional income before you can break even.

It's important to remember that law school carries a not-insignificant risk of earning $0-$60k per year. At that rate, you're dealing with a VERY bad ROI. If you win the lottery and make $160k/yr, it'd take 3 years of working to earn enough to bring you back to a gross earnings baseline. Factoring in accrued interest on repayment and increased taxation on your wages, and it's safe to add a significant amount of time to that.

I know this is long, but it is an important assessment to make when entering law school, and one that people don't often consider. There's a tendency to go "DAT $160k JOB" and "I got $100k in scholarships, I am doing great!"

ETA: I realized that I did not add any SA earnings here. In the event that you land an SA and earn 30k over one summer, you've offset some of your opportunity fee, but not all.

tl;dr - best case scenario puts you as a 3rd-4th year associate with lifetime earnings equal to those of someone who stuck with a 40k/yr job.


Hi Bedsole,

Thanks for taking the time to put together this detailed reply. I admit there is much more information required to make an informed decision than what I put in my original post. I suppose I was simply trying to stick to the "preferred format" that I saw in the OP.

I am currently making <40k/yr (let's call it 38k). It's a pretty sad salary, I know, but it has been enough to coast comfortably through my mid-to-late 20s while I pursued other personal projects. My marginal tax rate is 24% and let's call my current annual COL 9k (this is actually probably on the low side). Annual pay increases are going to be more or less offset by annual COL increases in this city, so I am netting just shy of 28k/yr. Right off the bat, I do not feel like I am really giving up all that much by going back to school. x3 yrs = 84k. I would take this figure to be my opportunity cost for 3yrs of law school. If I've botched in my judgement/calculations on this I'm happy to be shown the error of my ways.

Now let's say I can successfully negotiate a higher scholarship which brings my total COA at UMaine from 90k down to 60k. This feels reasonable given my numbers and the scholarships I've received from other T1 schools so far. Total COA factoring in opportunity cost becomes 144k which needs to be recouped before I break even and can truly be said to start earning. Assuming a median class standing from the only law school in the state, strong ties to the homestate and firm hiring practices which seem to greatly favour in-state grads, would it be beyond the realm of reasonable possibility to wind up making ~70-80k/yr? This seems like an ok position to be in. I have, theoretically, doubled my pre-LS salary and have a debt amount which is < than 1yrs salary. If this is realistic I would then argue that someone making 70k/yr and servicing a 60k loan at 7% can live frugally enough to have enough liquid cash to start investing regularly. A relatively conservative investing strategy can help a person in this situation end their loan repayment period in a decidedly better financial position than if all they did was service their loan for x number of years.

Of course there are a lot of "ifs" in this scenario, but I think there are a lot of ifs in a vast majority of these scenarios. Ultimately, I'm trying to get a picture of a conservative, realistic scenario using the information I have available to me at this point in the cycle. I've been accepted and received scholarships to schools that are significantly higher ranked than both UMaine and Northeastern, but, at this point, I'm trying to look at my options in New England as that is where I would ideally like to live and work into the foreseeable future. As I said, I'm also still pending at BU/BC.

Thanks again.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:29 pm

Marquis wrote:Now let's say I can successfully negotiate a higher scholarship which brings my total COA at UMaine from 90k down to 60k. This feels reasonable given my numbers and the scholarships I've received from other T1 schools so far. [...] Assuming a median class standing from the only law school in the state, strong ties to the homestate and firm hiring practices which seem to greatly favour in-state grads, would it be beyond the realm of reasonable possibility to wind up making ~70-80k/yr?

Thanks again.


First, jobs that pay 70-80k are few and far between. Generally legal pay falls along a bimodal distribution, with peaks at 40-60k and again at 160k. Few people make in between, with exceptions being larger firms in secondary markets with lower COLs paying <160 (generally 100+).

Second, a median outcome from UMaine is unemployment.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=me
Just under 2/3 of the class are not practicing attorneys 9 months after graduation. 1/100 are going to have a shot at the type of job that pays 70k+. I would not attend Maine under any circumstances.

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prezidentv8
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:35 pm

Bedsole wrote:a median outcome from UMaine is unemployment.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=me


Oof.

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worldtraveler
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:43 pm

prezidentv8 wrote:
Bedsole wrote:a median outcome from UMaine is unemployment.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?r=me


Oof.


Doesn't Maine have BIGLOBSTER LAW?

Marquis
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Marquis » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:44 pm

@Bedsole: thanks for the insight. Much appreciated!

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 31, 2014 4:12 pm

k
Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Fed_Atty
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Fed_Atty » Fri Jan 31, 2014 6:51 pm

Bedsole wrote:
NavyJAG1 wrote:
Bedsole wrote:
blink wrote:ITT: practicing attorneys give the advice. Any practitioners want to weigh in? FWIW, USAO is a long term goal for me, after the JAG corps

I am not sure that any of the current practitioners ITT have much experience with JAG, although I know there are at least one or two hanging around that do. You're not overlooked, I just want to make sure that someone who actually CAN help you does so. As for USAO, my understanding (and I may be mistaken) is that it is typically not an entry-level position.


USAO, is relatively common for transitioning JAGS, particularly if you can get a lot of trial experience. The Navy uses a whole person standard, but in the last few boards, there have been LSAT/GPA cutoffs. We also tend to focus our recruiting on the top 100 schools from USNWR. Selection is not arbitrary.

If I am not mistaken, you made a JAG guide on here, right? Or was that someone else? I can't seem to find it now.


No not me, it is a good idea though!

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BlueLotus
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:49 pm

twenty wrote:
rad lulz wrote:That 0l poster didn't get the usual shit entirely right I'll post when I can


Then stop shitting up this thread


I'm sorry you're so angry. My sincerest apologies for irreparably damaging the thread.


Image

woah, thought for the longest time that twenty was a grad! (based on his incredible So You Wanna Do PI thread)




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