ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

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NYstate
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby NYstate » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:04 pm

timbs4339 wrote:Here's two broad themes that keep popping up ITT that maybe could use some greater analysis from all of us. I think they describe the situation a lot of applicants are in.

1) I got into [insert regional or T50 school here] with a large or full scholarship, but I really just want to work biglaw/corporate law. Should I still go to law school?

2) I got into a T14 with no or little money, I'm not sure what I want to do in the law, and I am kind of debt averse. Should I still go to law school?



Been thinking about this as I head out. The only answer for sure I would give is don't pay sticker. I'm extremely debt averse and I wouldn't have gone if I had to take on that debt load. Big law is a fucking hard job. There is no way I would get into sticker debt and have to sweat getting big law and then staying as long as I need to because I owe 6 figures of debt.

The amounts that sticker costs are so insane that I don't see any justification for borrowing it. I understand that PAYE helps but it shouldn't be an incentive to indentured your foreseeable future.

texas man
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby texas man » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:19 pm

leib10 wrote:Goal(s): District Attorney's Office, unknown later goals
Regional Ties: Family and friends in law in El Paso, TX
School(s): Texas Tech, $7000/yr scholarship; Baylor, no scholarship
Other pertinent information: Spouse will provide cost of living, friends and family in Lubbock

I'll reject the mandate of this thread and tell you that, based on your goals, ties, etc., Texas Tech is not a bad choice.

NYstate
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby NYstate » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:26 pm

texas man wrote:
leib10 wrote:Goal(s): District Attorney's Office, unknown later goals
Regional Ties: Family and friends in law in El Paso, TX
School(s): Texas Tech, $7000/yr scholarship; Baylor, no scholarship
Other pertinent information: Spouse will provide cost of living, friends and family in Lubbock

I'll reject the mandate of this thread and tell you that, based on your goals, ties, etc., Texas Tech is not a bad choice.

How much will your total COA be? How much debt?

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Bikeflip
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:30 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
leib10 wrote:Goal(s): District Attorney's Office, unknown later goals
Regional Ties: Family and friends in law in El Paso, TX
School(s): Texas Tech, $7000/yr scholarship; Baylor, no scholarship
Other pertinent information: Spouse will provide cost of living, friends and family in Lubbock


The only way this would possibly work is if you are absolutely committed to being a DA forever and can go on PSLF. Even then that's a bit of a risk given that you might not even find an eligible job.

Otherwise, absolutely not for that amount of work.



Eh, in state's around $22-3K/yr, per LST. So if the dude has a $7k scholarship, he'd have less than $50K in debt for 3 years and bar costs. My Texas lawyer buddy was saying that some ADA offices in Texas start at $55k and can get you to $100k by year 7. Might be worth it if you wanna stay in Lubbock. Thing is though, you got to get a job in Lubbock. Dunno how well TT travels in Texas.


ETA: Lieb, play around with that site. I know I didn't get all the Lubbock jobs.
Last edited by Bikeflip on Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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worldtraveler
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:42 pm

Bikeflip wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
leib10 wrote:Goal(s): District Attorney's Office, unknown later goals
Regional Ties: Family and friends in law in El Paso, TX
School(s): Texas Tech, $7000/yr scholarship; Baylor, no scholarship
Other pertinent information: Spouse will provide cost of living, friends and family in Lubbock


The only way this would possibly work is if you are absolutely committed to being a DA forever and can go on PSLF. Even then that's a bit of a risk given that you might not even find an eligible job.

Otherwise, absolutely not for that amount of work.



Eh, in state's around $22-3K/yr, per LST. So if the dude has a $7k scholarship, he'd have less than $50K in debt for 3 years and bar costs. My Texas lawyer buddy was saying that some ADA offices in Texas start at $55k and can get you to $100k by year 7. Might be worth it if you wanna stay in Lubbock.


I forgot their tuition is low. Still try and negotiate for more though, but it's not a terrible idea to go.

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Bikeflip
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:46 pm

worldtraveler wrote:I forgot their tuition is low. Still try and negotiate for more though, but it's not a terrible idea to go.



Truth. $40k in debt is better than $50k. Free is better than $40k. Good news is, I think many Texas DA offices pay their interns. That's another way to keep costs down.

Plus, with debt under $55k, the dude could work as a cop or similar and be fine financially.

dean414
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby dean414 » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:50 pm

Might help more if I had heard back from all my schools I have applied to... But I only applied last Sunday.
3.1/163

I have applied to uconn (ct resident), bu, bc ( have honestly written off both as I don't want to pay anything close to sticker price), suffolk, north eastern, New England, western New England , roger Williams, quinnipiac ( applied but not really even considering it), Drexel , temple, penny state

I've heard back from Drexel (full ride), wne (full ride) , north eastern (30k per yr - 3/4 tuition)

I really want to practice in Boston, have a lot of interests and have family ties to a boston firm and another boston firm I have been working at full time. Going to try and leverage against northeastern showing the offers from other school and supplement with a wls addendum


Any reason not to go to northeastern? At this stage it is cheaper than uconn, although I guess will be about at par with uconn when living arrangements in bean town are considered.

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Bikeflip
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Bikeflip » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:04 pm

dean414 wrote:Any reason not to go to northeastern? At this stage it is cheaper than uconn, although I guess will be about at par with uconn when living arrangements in bean town are considered.


After factoring in COL loans, you'd be paying $90k or so. Still costs too much for the job prospects. With a 163, you're 5-7 questions away from having BU/BC throwing decent money at you. (Even then, BU/BC would be over $100K total after scholarships, but you'll have better job prospects).

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yeslekkkk
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby yeslekkkk » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:21 am

The majority of the attorneys in this thread have been talking about COA vs. biglaw outcomes. However, for those interested in PI, what's the protocol there? Do you rely on LRAP/IBR at a T-14 or do you take the money of a school with probably less chance for future opportunity?

CATCH-22

timbs4339
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:24 am

yeslekkkk wrote:The majority of the attorneys in this thread have been talking about COA vs. biglaw outcomes. However, for those interested in PI, what's the protocol there? Do you rely on LRAP/IBR at a T-14 or do you take the money of a school with probably less chance for future opportunity?

CATCH-22


It really depends on what kind of PI you want. You should have a preferred field and work experience before going into law school. It's rough out there.

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prezidentv8
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby prezidentv8 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 12:34 am

timbs4339 wrote:
yeslekkkk wrote:The majority of the attorneys in this thread have been talking about COA vs. biglaw outcomes. However, for those interested in PI, what's the protocol there? Do you rely on LRAP/IBR at a T-14 or do you take the money of a school with probably less chance for future opportunity?

CATCH-22


It really depends on what kind of PI you want. You should have a preferred field and work experience before going into law school. It's rough out there.


Take the money is TCR.

rollbirds
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rollbirds » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:22 am

Goals:DA/SA/Govt
Ties: central illinois, family in and around chicago
Schools: UIUC 24k/yr or Mizzou 7.5k/year
Other info: spouse will cover living costs, savings will cover books and some other costs
any advice?

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blink
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby blink » Fri Jan 31, 2014 1:38 am

Goals: JAG/USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Lower T-14 sticker, Vandy WashU OSU (no word on $$$), UCLA Minnesota (30k/yr scholarships)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA.

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paglababa
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby paglababa » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:28 am

Goals:Biglaw/ Prestigious Gov/Fed Job / Academic (basically unsure)
Ties: NYC
Schools: Harvard, NYU, Penn, ect. Don't know abt fin aid or scholarship yet, so assuming Harvard as full tuition....

Should I take H @ full tuition? I know it sucks money wise, especially because I currently have a solid career making a lot of money....but will the name brand be enough to make up for it in 5-10 years?

leib10
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby leib10 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 2:50 am

NYstate wrote:
texas man wrote:
leib10 wrote:Goal(s): District Attorney's Office, unknown later goals
Regional Ties: Family and friends in law in El Paso, TX
School(s): Texas Tech, $7000/yr scholarship; Baylor, no scholarship
Other pertinent information: Spouse will provide cost of living, friends and family in Lubbock

I'll reject the mandate of this thread and tell you that, based on your goals, ties, etc., Texas Tech is not a bad choice.

How much will your total COA be? How much debt?


What is COA? And I should be ~$45K in debt for tuition. Cost of living is taken care of by spouse.

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twenty
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby twenty » Fri Jan 31, 2014 3:19 am

blink wrote:Goals: JAG/USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Lower T-14 sticker, Vandy WashU OSU (no word on $$$), UCLA Minnesota (30k/yr scholarships)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA.


Not an attorney, but you should probably seriously reconsider your goals or else retake and aim higher. Most AUSA offices have a de facto requirement of a federal clerkship now. One spot will get, like, 300 applications, and being a JAG officer is not going to make you stand out. Furthermore, JAG is very difficult to get (even if you are gunning for it) to the point where selection is almost arbitrary.

If you really want AUSA, your best bet is to lateral in after a few years in DOJ Honors.

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deadpanic
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby deadpanic » Fri Jan 31, 2014 8:55 am

rollbirds wrote:Goals:DA/SA/Govt
Ties: central illinois, family in and around chicago
Schools: UIUC 24k/yr or Mizzou 7.5k/year
Other info: spouse will cover living costs, savings will cover books and some other costs
any advice?


UIUC would be the way to go. Whether it is worth ~70k in debt is probably questionable. Not really a terrible choice though given your goals and ties.

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:23 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dean414
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby dean414 » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:39 am

Bikeflip wrote:
dean414 wrote:Any reason not to go to northeastern? At this stage it is cheaper than uconn, although I guess will be about at par with uconn when living arrangements in bean town are considered.


After factoring in COL loans, you'd be paying $90k or so. Still costs too much for the job prospects. With a 163, you're 5-7 questions away from having BU/BC throwing decent money at you. (Even then, BU/BC would be over $100K total after scholarships, but you'll have better job prospects).


I realize bu/bc would be much better in terms of job prospects. I already took a year off to work on my last score and I went from bottom of barrel to at least a respectable score with 163. I'm working full time at a big firm in metro boston area and think it could bode well for after school as long as I stay in the area.

I think I have a good shot at getting into bu/bc but I'm not interested in paying sticker.
I think it will really come down to uconn (paying instate 22k) versus northeastern 3/4 tuition - maybe I can convince them to bump up to a full ride. Uconn is a better ranked school but if I want to end up in boston am I better off schooling there and developing the connections?

rad lulz
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:42 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Dr. Review
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:48 am

paglababa wrote:Goals:Biglaw/ Prestigious Gov/Fed Job / Academic (basically unsure)
Ties: NYC
Schools: Harvard, NYU, Penn, ect. Don't know abt fin aid or scholarship yet, so assuming Harvard as full tuition....

Should I take H @ full tuition? I know it sucks money wise, especially because I currently have a solid career making a lot of money....but will the name brand be enough to make up for it in 5-10 years?

This thread is not for you. That said, H has aid programs that most schools (even T14) don't. Have fun there and study hard.

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blink
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby blink » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:46 am

twenty wrote:
blink wrote:Goals: JAG/USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Lower T-14 sticker, Vandy WashU OSU (no word on $$$), UCLA Minnesota (30k/yr scholarships)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA.


Not an attorney, but you should probably seriously reconsider your goals or else retake and aim higher. Most AUSA offices have a de facto requirement of a federal clerkship now. One spot will get, like, 300 applications, and being a JAG officer is not going to make you stand out. Furthermore, JAG is very difficult to get (even if you are gunning for it) to the point where selection is almost arbitrary.

If you really want AUSA, your best bet is to lateral in after a few years in DOJ Honors.


ITT: practicing attorneys give the advice. Any practitioners want to weigh in? FWIW, USAO is a long term goal for me, after the JAG corps

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Dr. Review
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Dr. Review » Fri Jan 31, 2014 10:58 am

blink wrote:ITT: practicing attorneys give the advice. Any practitioners want to weigh in? FWIW, USAO is a long term goal for me, after the JAG corps

I am not sure that any of the current practitioners ITT have much experience with JAG, although I know there are at least one or two hanging around that do. You're not overlooked, I just want to make sure that someone who actually CAN help you does so. As for USAO, my understanding (and I may be mistaken) is that it is typically not an entry-level position.

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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby Fed_Atty » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:10 am

Bedsole wrote:
blink wrote:ITT: practicing attorneys give the advice. Any practitioners want to weigh in? FWIW, USAO is a long term goal for me, after the JAG corps

I am not sure that any of the current practitioners ITT have much experience with JAG, although I know there are at least one or two hanging around that do. You're not overlooked, I just want to make sure that someone who actually CAN help you does so. As for USAO, my understanding (and I may be mistaken) is that it is typically not an entry-level position.


USAO, is relatively common for transitioning JAGS, particularly if you can get a lot of trial experience. The Navy uses a whole person standard, but in the last few boards, there have been LSAT/GPA cutoffs. We also tend to focus our recruiting on the top 100 schools from USNWR. Selection is not arbitrary.

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worldtraveler
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Re: ITT: Practicing attorneys tell you your top choice is bad

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 11:13 am

blink wrote:
twenty wrote:
blink wrote:Goals: JAG/USAO
Ties: Ohio
Schools: Lower T-14 sticker, Vandy WashU OSU (no word on $$$), UCLA Minnesota (30k/yr scholarships)
Other info: no spouse, will need to loan COA.


Not an attorney, but you should probably seriously reconsider your goals or else retake and aim higher. Most AUSA offices have a de facto requirement of a federal clerkship now. One spot will get, like, 300 applications, and being a JAG officer is not going to make you stand out. Furthermore, JAG is very difficult to get (even if you are gunning for it) to the point where selection is almost arbitrary.

If you really want AUSA, your best bet is to lateral in after a few years in DOJ Honors.


ITT: practicing attorneys give the advice. Any practitioners want to weigh in? FWIW, USAO is a long term goal for me, after the JAG corps


Which T14s?

I actually find your question maybe the toughest one to answer of the whole thread because this career path is just tough to get no matter the ranking of the school, and if you don't get a government job you don't want to be stuck with debt.

Are you sure you're actually eligible for JAG? Can pass the physical, etc.?

If I were you I would grill your potential schools on who they have placed in JAG and whether you can talk to them. See what they say.




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