UMich vs. Chicago

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tenniscourt
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UMich vs. Chicago

Postby tenniscourt » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:04 am

Which should I choose? U Michigan with scholarship $$$ or Chicago at sticker. Ultimately I want to practice in Chicago which makes UChi attractive but I also want to keep costs down so living in a college town with a scholarship also is attractive. Which would be my best bet?

riverwater
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby riverwater » Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:10 am

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Last edited by riverwater on Mon Feb 24, 2014 5:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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bruinfan10
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby bruinfan10 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:16 am

Chicago obviously has better job placement in its home city, but Michigan is the next closest T14 to your market. If we're talking like $75k at Michigan versus NOTHING at Chicago, isn't Mich a no-brainer? But yeah, include all the relevant info and maybe throw up a poll if you want more useful info dooder.

Edit: Duh, NW is closer, sorry about that. I don't know what I was thinking.
Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

frcarpen
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby frcarpen » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:44 am

Did Northwestern offer you anything? Or have you already decided against them? In terms of living in Chicago I would rather live and attend school by the Northwestern campus than the south side where Chi is.

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2014
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby 2014 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 1:30 pm

I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.

On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.

On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:19 pm

2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.

On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.

On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.


Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO

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Winston1984
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby Winston1984 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:24 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.

On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.

On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.


Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO


Yale lacks dat rigor.

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2014
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby 2014 » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:22 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.

On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.

On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.


Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO


School is shit - see e.g. NLJ250 placement - discounting argument still works. Plus Yale people get canned earlier than Chicago people because our work ethic is better and the hippies have career ADD.

ADDITIONALLY - You have to take into account the value of your happiness (Chicago > New Haven) as well as your discounted chances of being shanked or shot (a narrow win for Chicago here) both of which are priceless!

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:44 pm

2014 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.

On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.

On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.


Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO


School is shit - see e.g. NLJ250 placement - discounting argument still works. Plus Yale people get canned earlier than Chicago people because our work ethic is better and the hippies have career ADD.

ADDITIONALLY - You have to take into account the value of your happiness (Chicago > New Haven) as well as your discounted chances of being shanked or shot (a narrow win for Chicago here) both of which are priceless!


lol. you really wanted to take it on crime in Chicago? I mean, I was joking, but.. yea you really will sink pretty deep into it in defense of your city

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skers
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby skers » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:13 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
2014 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
2014 wrote:I bet you get 30 or 45k at Chicago plus our COA is cheaper than Michigan's though not by a huge margin.

On one hand, the ~50k+interest or whatever you will save by going to Michigan is nothing to scoff at. That's an extra 2 years or so at least paying loans on a big law salary.

On the other hand, Chicago places ~70 or so students a year in the city while Michigan places ~35 (some of this might be self selection of course). Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C. The job placement advantage in the city cannot be overstated. Additionally, looking at backup markets, Chicago carries a 20ish percent overall firm placement advantage over Michigan. Given that the career income differential between someone who gets a 2L SA vs someone who doesn't is almost certainly more than $250,000 (50k/20%), Chicago is very likely to be cost justified. It just depends how risk averse you are. In your shoes I would choose Chicago but full disclosure in pretty much everyone's shoes I would choose Chicago.


Full ride + CoL covered in new haven at Yale vs. sticker loan debt at UChi, GO


School is shit - see e.g. NLJ250 placement - discounting argument still works. Plus Yale people get canned earlier than Chicago people because our work ethic is better and the hippies have career ADD.

ADDITIONALLY - You have to take into account the value of your happiness (Chicago > New Haven) as well as your discounted chances of being shanked or shot (a narrow win for Chicago here) both of which are priceless!


lol. you really wanted to take it on crime in Chicago? I mean, I was joking, but.. yea you really will sink pretty deep into it in defense of your city


lol, just lol.

The decision really comes down to how Chicago or bust you are and what your ties to the Chicago market are. Based on what I know from both schools, if you don't have anything Chicago in your background, I think you're going to have a hard time selling Chicago at Michigan. Sure, it typically places decently in Chicago, but after '08 I don't really Michigan is sufficient for ties as it may have been previously. The more willing you are to split targets in New York, the more attractive the Michigan $$$ is.

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Optimist Prime
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby Optimist Prime » Fri Jan 24, 2014 9:59 pm

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Last edited by Optimist Prime on Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Rurik
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby Rurik » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:09 pm

2014 wrote:Literally 17 of Kirkland's 37 incoming summers are coming from U of C.


I also heard that not one of Kirkland's incoming summers is from UMich.

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jbagelboy
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Jan 24, 2014 10:22 pm

The real answer is, this isn't a realistic scenario if you play your cards right. I got $67K from Michigan and $45K from UChi last cycle. I think this spread is pretty typical. If you're getting "$$$" at Michigan, that nomenclature on TLS typically implies $100K+. So Chicago has no reason to hold out on you under $60K. What are your numbers?

If you haven't tried yet, Chicago has an application available to bump merit aid on their admissions website. You just attach competing offers. Give it a try if you haven't already

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bruinfan10
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby bruinfan10 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:01 am

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Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:07 am

bruinfan10 wrote:that ninth circle of frozen hellhole sweatshop.


Are you talking about U Chicago or Kirkland?

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2014
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby 2014 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 11:19 am

bruinfan10 wrote: Wolverines who actually want to work in that ninth circle of frozen hellhole sweatshop can do it no problem. .

Lol ok. So the ~40% or whatever who didn't land SAs from Michigan didn't want them?

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bruinfan10
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby bruinfan10 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:29 pm

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Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Rurik
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby Rurik » Sat Jan 25, 2014 2:53 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:The kids who are saying Michigan can't get Kirkland Chicago are smoking crack.


If you're referring to me, I wasn't saying that UMichigan students can't get Kirkland Chicago. It was that not one UMich student was an incoming summer associate at Kirkland Chicago, which many believe (for good reason) is the best law firm in the city of Chicago. I hear there are going to be a ton of people from other T14 schools (e.g. Harvard, Stanford, UChicago, Northwestern, etc), but nobody from UMichigan. As for the story that all UMich people must just be self-selecting away from Kirkland Chicago and that's the reason there are no incoming SAs, come on, that's a joke. You think there are 17 UChicago students and 0 UMichigan students (also note that UMichigan is, what, like twice the size of UChicago?) because of UMich students' self-selection??

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bruinfan10
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby bruinfan10 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 12:33 pm

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Last edited by bruinfan10 on Thu May 08, 2014 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby 2014 » Sun Jan 26, 2014 2:38 pm

I didn't mean to drag this thread off with the Kirkland talk, my point was that in non-NYC markets there tends to be few firms that hold a disproportionate amount of the SAs in the city and if you know you want to be in that city, you have to seriously consider those schools. Of course Michigan can and does place at Kirkland, Sidley, Jenner, Mayer Brown, etc in Chicago, but U.Chi and to a lesser extent NU fill up a very sizable chunk of the limited slots. For someone who knows they want to be in Chicago, that has to justify some additional cost differential. That applies to the U.Chi/NU vs Any school decision, not just Michigan.

For someone who just wants any job in any market, it's a lot easier to figure out what their scholarship indifference point should be, but once you start throwing in preferences it becomes more difficult which is why it tends to be safer to just take the higher ranked school. Furthermore, Michigan having no real home market makes it a really tough sell to people who have any strong market preference unless the scholarship differential is huge, and since Michigan is not overly generous, it tends not to be.

20141023
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby 20141023 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:28 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: UMich vs. Chicago

Postby 2014 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:51 pm

I know of several going to K&E who aren't on LR and several who are. I don't know the exact numbers but no, not all of the 17 are on LR lol.




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