BU vs ND vs Cardozo

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couchpizza
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BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby couchpizza » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:09 am

Hey guys,

I got into all of these schools. Cardozo offered me a full ride/ no stips and I'm still waiting for BU and ND to get back to me with their offers. I want big law OR a fed clerkship, both are equally attractive to me at this point. I was wondering which of these three schools would be the best shot to achieve one of those two goals. Also a scholly amount at either ND or BU that would make these schools worth attending would be some sick input. I have no ties in Boston, NYC or the midwest, I'm from Florida but biglaw or fed clerkship from Florida schools= impossible, lol.

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phillywc
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby phillywc » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:16 am

Numbers?

I suppose Cardozo for free is defensible, but if you have the numbers to get in there with a full ride, you are probably within arms length of t14 with a retake.

Need schollys before commenting on BU/ND but neither is worth anything close to sticker.

pcthenls
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby pcthenls » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:33 am

A Notre Dame admissions/financial aid director sent me a list of their 2013 graduate employers and 2L summer employers today at my request. I am specifically interested in PI opportunities, but ND seems to place pretty well in firms and clerkships according to LST. I am impressed by the range of states represented among employers for recent grads. With the right scholarship, not a bad option.

I would suggested getting in contact with schools and ask for this sort of information before making any decisions. Congrats on the full ride too!

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cinephile
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby cinephile » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:38 am

Your chances at biglaw or a federal clerkship are minimal from any of these schools, so either retake the LSAT and try again or adjust your goals.

Even with a full ride at Cardozo, you'll be borrowing a good amount for COL. But if you can manage getting a midlaw/small law job out of Cardozo where your starting salary would be equal to the amount you borrowed for COL, then that's not a bad deal. I wouldn't go to either BU or ND absent a full ride.

timbs4339
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:42 am

Unfortunately biglaw+AIII clerkship is about a 33% chance from ND/BU. That's not enough of a chance to justify sticker. If you wouldn't be paying sticker, IMO, it's not enough of a reason to justify dropping money on those schools if you wouldn't be happy working other kinds of legal jobs. In order to have a decent shot of getting those jobs you need to go T13.

It's not a good bet at Dozo either. Perhaps rethink your goals.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yanky91
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby Yanky91 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:42 am

couchpizza wrote:Hey guys,

I got into all of these schools. Cardozo offered me a full ride/ no stips and I'm still waiting for BU and ND to get back to me with their offers. I want big law OR a fed clerkship, both are equally attractive to me at this point. I was wondering which of these three schools would be the best shot to achieve one of those two goals. Also a scholly amount at either ND or BU that would make these schools worth attending would be some sick input. I have no ties in Boston, NYC or the midwest, I'm from Florida but biglaw or fed clerkship from Florida schools= impossible, lol.


Last years biglaw stats for all three schools:
BU=39.4% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 10.5% in judicial clerkships
ND=20.3% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 10.3% in judicial clerkships
YU=20.4% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 7.6% in judicial clerkships

If Biglaw is really what you want, BU is your best bet (according to U.S. News and LST). However, it is extremely expensive. I would not go to BU unless I got a big scholarship. Congrats on YU. If the other schools don't give you a scholarship and these are your only options, I would probably go to YU. But keep in mind that living in NYC is ridiculously expensive. You'll probably end up with 70k+ in loans just for living. You also have the option to apply to many more schools (which you might have already done). Lastly, you can decide to retake the exam if you think you can do better. (The data is from the U.S. News careers page for 2013. As far as I know, it is reputable.)

timbs4339
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:50 am

Yanky91 wrote:
couchpizza wrote:Hey guys,

I got into all of these schools. Cardozo offered me a full ride/ no stips and I'm still waiting for BU and ND to get back to me with their offers. I want big law OR a fed clerkship, both are equally attractive to me at this point. I was wondering which of these three schools would be the best shot to achieve one of those two goals. Also a scholly amount at either ND or BU that would make these schools worth attending would be some sick input. I have no ties in Boston, NYC or the midwest, I'm from Florida but biglaw or fed clerkship from Florida schools= impossible, lol.


Last years biglaw stats for all three schools:
BU=39.4% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 10.5% in judicial clerkships
ND=20.3% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 10.3% in judicial clerkships
YU=20.4% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 7.6% in judicial clerkships

If Biglaw is really what you want, BU is your best bet (according to U.S. News and LST). However, it is extremely expensive. I would not go to BU unless I got a big scholarship. Congrats on YU. If the other schools don't give you a scholarship and these are your only options, I would probably go to YU. But keep in mind that living in NYC is ridiculously expensive. You'll probably end up with 70k+ in loans just for living. You also have the option to apply to many more schools (which you might have already done). Lastly, you can decide to retake the exam if you think you can do better. (The data is from the U.S. News careers page for 2013. As far as I know, it is reputable.)


LST shows about 33% for BU/NU and 12% Dozo combined. And they use a much lower threshold for biglaw (101+ attorneys). USNWR is not a very good source (they are probably lumping state and fed clerkships together, OP said he wanted fed).

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cardozo
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=bu
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=notredame

Yanky91
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby Yanky91 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:55 am

timbs4339 wrote:
Yanky91 wrote:
couchpizza wrote:Hey guys,

I got into all of these schools. Cardozo offered me a full ride/ no stips and I'm still waiting for BU and ND to get back to me with their offers. I want big law OR a fed clerkship, both are equally attractive to me at this point. I was wondering which of these three schools would be the best shot to achieve one of those two goals. Also a scholly amount at either ND or BU that would make these schools worth attending would be some sick input. I have no ties in Boston, NYC or the midwest, I'm from Florida but biglaw or fed clerkship from Florida schools= impossible, lol.


Last years biglaw stats for all three schools:
BU=39.4% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 10.5% in judicial clerkships
ND=20.3% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 10.3% in judicial clerkships
YU=20.4% employed in law firms consisting of more than 500 lawyers, 7.6% in judicial clerkships

If Biglaw is really what you want, BU is your best bet (according to U.S. News and LST). However, it is extremely expensive. I would not go to BU unless I got a big scholarship. Congrats on YU. If the other schools don't give you a scholarship and these are your only options, I would probably go to YU. But keep in mind that living in NYC is ridiculously expensive. You'll probably end up with 70k+ in loans just for living. You also have the option to apply to many more schools (which you might have already done). Lastly, you can decide to retake the exam if you think you can do better. (The data is from the U.S. News careers page for 2013. As far as I know, it is reputable.)


LST shows about 33% for BU/NU and 12% Dozo combined. And they use a much lower threshold for biglaw (101+ attorneys). USNWR is not a very good source.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cardozo
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=bu
http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=notredame


Alright fair enough. But everything else I said still stands. BU still best for Biglaw and blah blah blah. Just replace the stats above with LST stats Couchpizza.

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couchpizza
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby couchpizza » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:32 am

Thanks for the input guys! I totally agree, no sticker for BU or ND. I was thinking maybe 60%+ at either of these schools would make them worth it. ND has stated they will be offering me some $ so I'm waiting on them and just got into BU via phone call, so waiting to see what happens there. I applied like a madman (and broke the bank doing it) to have more options though. Interviewed with WUSTL, GULC and GW, so waiting to hear from those guys. What's with this T13 jazz btw, no GULC? As we say down here in Florida "y'all be trollin." :wink:

BigZuck
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 23, 2014 10:48 am

If you want big law/fed clerkship, you have to retake and go to a T14. Those outcomes are too remote from any of these schools. Also, not being from the markets where these schools place kind of makes them all a non-starter as well.

timbs4339
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 11:29 am

couchpizza wrote:What's with this T13 jazz btw, no GULC? As we say down here in Florida "y'all be trollin." :wink:


LST has them at about 44% biglaw+fed clerk. Even saying that 10% of students could have gotten either of those but decided to jump straight into PI or gov, it's still a coin flip's chance at what you want. I wouldn't take that bet, especially at sticker.

Like I said, reevaluate your goals, because the ice is pretty thin out there (i.e. there are very few biglaw-esque jobs where you do the same work just for less money).

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jingosaur
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby jingosaur » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:22 pm

You're getting options that are defensible law school options, but with your goals, they're not a great fit. PLEASE DISCLOSE YOUR NUMBERS so we can give you better retake advice. There are people in this forum who got into these schools with no to little $$ one year and after a retake/reapply, they got into top 6 law schools.

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couchpizza
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby couchpizza » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:35 pm

I'm 3.71/163, strong softs, having a good cycle so far. I might be open to midlaw or state clerk ships. Hoping for some $, as previously mentioned

y2zipper
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby y2zipper » Thu Jan 23, 2014 1:39 pm

Can you retake? If you want Biglaw, hit a 170 and you're pretty golden for T14 with money.

timbs4339
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jan 23, 2014 2:00 pm

Yeah a retake is in order. Getting a midlaw job or a meaningful state clerkship is a crapshoot even from a T6 (I know, I tried).

It seems like you wouldn't want to work for a state or local gov agency, PI, or for clients who aren't corporations. This isn't an insult, I'm just trying to get you to understand that there's a distinction between the different "worlds" of practice, and the people who end up in the mid to bottom of the class at places like BU or ND will end up doing work very different from their classmates who get "prestigious" jobs. The best thing to do if you want that work is to shoot for a school with 75% or so placement in those.

BigZuck
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jan 23, 2014 3:43 pm

Definitely retake

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Synch
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Re: BU vs ND vs Cardozo

Postby Synch » Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:21 pm

BigZuck wrote:Definitely retake


Zuck, I honestly don't know how you do it. Day in, day out, you consistently tell people (correctly) to retake. Just reading these sort of threads hurts - I can't imagine being invested directly.

I salute you, good sir.




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