FSU, UF or W&M?

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Ramius
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby Ramius » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:50 pm

You're assuming I don't understand that grading curves and rankings effect placement because I said that I have anxiety?


That's not what I said at all. What I assume is that you can't be sure your anxiety won't attack when law school exams come around as well. Can you really be sure that your anxiety is LSAT-specific?

My anxiety has been much better in the last few months( finally seeing a counselor has really helped).


If this is true, why not give the LSAT one last shot just to see if you can finally conquer it and save yourself thousands of dollars? You can do whatever you like, and ultimately UF/FSU for cheap is your best option out of these. But if I were you, I would give the LSAT one last shot and see if I could finally conquer it. I hate leaving money on the table if I think I have a reasonable shot at taking it.

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:56 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:59 pm

sublime wrote:Sorry, I shouldn't have said shit. I just find it interesting that no one seems to realize that Stetson, Miami, and FIU have better employment scores than UF, and even Nova is close.



Not to derail, but...
Any idea why this is? It blows my mind, considering how everyone in Florida seems to really respect UF, and Stetson and FIU are so far down the USNWR preftige ladder, that UF grads are hired at such mediocre levels compared to Stetson and FIU.

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:02 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
sublime wrote:Sorry, I shouldn't have said shit. I just find it interesting that no one seems to realize that Stetson, Miami, and FIU have better employment scores than UF, and even Nova is close.



Not to derail, but...
Any idea why this is? It blows my mind, considering how everyone in Florida seems to really respect UF, and Stetson and FIU are so far down the USNWR preftige ladder, that UF grads are hired at such mediocre levels compared to Stetson and FIU.


Living here, I think it's because many people (most who aren't involved in law) see UF as the flagship school. They think that because the undergrad program is the best in the state, that the law school must have the best placement. I've also read some posts indicating that the UF career department doesn't work as hard to place graduates. But that could be untrue.

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sublime
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby sublime » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:16 pm

..

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cron1834
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby cron1834 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:17 pm

SailorMoon9543 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:
SailorMoon9543 wrote:
cron1834 wrote:So you have no reason to believe that a second LSAT would be as anxiety-producing, then? That's what you are implying. But you deny the logical consequence.

Does not compute.


I already said I took it twice.


Why can't you take it a third time, then? Again, does not compute, unless you're positing that you have a LSAT-specific phobia that drives your anxiety. Wtf?


That's not what I was implying. Reread my original post regarding this subject if you really don't get it.


I have. It's not illuminating. You are talking gibberish. You're dead set on a small set of terrible options, and don't have the logical reasoning skills or empirical evidence to justify it.

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:28 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:32 pm

Realize you might be making a terrible choice.
Evaluate whether you can achieve your goals with your current score.
Trust the experienced lawyers and law students who understand this process better than you do.
Accept their advice to give yourself the best chance to achieve your goals.
Kill your next LSAT sitting.
Enjoy a lot of money from current schools or significantly better job prospects at different ones.

In order to set yourself up to succeed in the legal profession you need to do well on a bunch of stressful tests starting with the LSAT. Now isn't the time to say "eh, I'll get em' next time" because you get only one shot at getting good 1L grades and your JD starts expiring fast if you don't pass the bar on the first try.

As for Stetson/UM/FIU employment scores vs FSU/UF, remember that not all law jobs are created equal. Once you get down into the morass of the non-institutional legal jobs, connections, ties, hustle, work experience, and just plain old luck matter a lot more than where you went to school or whether you're top 33% instead of top 50% as a 1L. FSU and UF are the only FL schools with AIII+large firm+PSLF qualifying scores over 30% (i.e. jobs you might be able to pay sticker back on within a reasonable time). UF also outpaces all the other Florida schools in AIII+biglaw employment by a few percentage points.

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sublime
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby sublime » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:33 pm

..

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:34 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:36 pm

SailorMoon9543 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Realize you might be making a terrible choice.
Evaluate whether you can achieve your goals with your current score.
Trust the experienced lawyers and law students who understand this process better than you do.
Accept their advice to give yourself the best chance to achieve your goals.
Kill your next LSAT sitting.
Enjoy a lot of money from current schools or significantly better job prospects at different ones.

In order to set yourself up to succeed in the legal profession you need to do well on a bunch of stressful tests starting with the LSAT. Now isn't the time to say "eh, I'll get em' next time" because you get only one shot at getting good 1L grades and your JD starts expiring fast if you don't pass the bar on the first try.

As for Stetson/UM/FIU employment scores vs FSU/UF, remember that not all law jobs are created equal. Once you get down into the morass of the non-institutional legal jobs, connections, ties, hustle, work experience, and just plain old luck matter a lot more than where you went to school or whether you're top 33% instead of top 50% as a 1L. FSU and UF are the only FL schools with AIII+large firm+PSLF qualifying scores over 30% (i.e. jobs you might be able to pay sticker back on within a reasonable time). UF also outpaces all the other Florida schools in AIII+biglaw employment by a few percentage points.


How can you read this thread, see that I'm NOT retaking the test, and STILL post that I should? Are you blind? Reposting a cute little saying about retaking that someone else made up doesn't make your comment any more helpful.


That analysis has been peer-reviewed and double-blind tested. If you don't want to do it, that's on you.

In all seriousness, your excuse for not retaking the LSAT is not particularly good, and I would caution you to think twice about entering a profession like the law if you have serious anxiety issues. Law school is known for exacerbating anxiety disorders and pairing them with other stuff like substance abuse.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sublime
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby sublime » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:37 pm

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:37 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

timbs4339
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:38 pm

sublime wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Realize you might be making a terrible choice.
Evaluate whether you can achieve your goals with your current score.
Trust the experienced lawyers and law students who understand this process better than you do.
Accept their advice to give yourself the best chance to achieve your goals.
Kill your next LSAT sitting.
Enjoy a lot of money from current schools or significantly better job prospects at different ones.

In order to set yourself up to succeed in the legal profession you need to do well on a bunch of stressful tests starting with the LSAT. Now isn't the time to say "eh, I'll get em' next time" because you get only one shot at getting good 1L grades and your JD starts expiring fast if you don't pass the bar on the first try.

As for Stetson/UM/FIU employment scores vs FSU/UF, remember that not all law jobs are created equal. Once you get down into the morass of the non-institutional legal jobs, connections, ties, hustle, work experience, and just plain old luck matter a lot more than where you went to school or whether you're top 33% instead of top 50% as a 1L. FSU and UF are the only FL schools with AIII+large firm+PSLF qualifying scores over 30% (i.e. jobs you might be able to pay sticker back on within a reasonable time). UF also outpaces all the other Florida schools in AIII+biglaw employment by a few percentage points.


That is the first time I have seen AIII and BigLaw added to PLSF.

Their (actual) Biglaw plus AIII is like 8%.

If you want biglaw, you shouldn't go to school in Fl.


(i.e. jobs you might be able to pay sticker back on within a reasonable time).

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:40 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:40 pm

SailorMoon9543 wrote:
sublime wrote:1. The posters are not wrong when they say that your best bet is to retake.

2. I sympathize with your anxiety issues, but keep in mind when making this decision that exam week in LS is at least 10 times more stressful than the LSAT, if not more.

3. If you insist, I would strongly favor FSU, especially since you want to work government, being in Tally is important, plus the have better stats than UF anyway, and your previous ties won't hurt.


Why would exam week be more stressful than the LSAT? Especially "10 times more"? As I've posted, I've always done well in exams. Even ones that count for upwards up 90% of my grade. I've been in classes with curves before (quite a few) and have gotten A's. At this point, it seems like you're not trying to help but intentionally trying to make me feel bad for some reason.


It is a totally different beast. Look, everyone's has had different experiences in their life. But IME (coming from a large state school) I quickly realized that going up against a group of people that are generally as bright and hardworking as I was is different than competing against people who are all over the place in terms of intelligence, drive, and background.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:41 pm

SailorMoon9543 wrote:How can you read this thread, see that I'm NOT retaking the test, and STILL post that I should? Are you blind? Reposting a cute little saying about retaking that someone else made up doesn't make your comment any more helpful.


You have to understand that TLS in general doesn't really care about the parameters of questions, if all options on the table are less than great. To use a common analogy around these parts, it's sort of like saying: "Should I shoot myself in the face or stab myself in the jugular? Please don't say don't do either, I'm going to do one or othe other. If you're going to say neither, say nothing."

To be fair, people HAVE given you legit advice within the scope of your question; namely that W&M at sticker and OOS is not a great investment, and that for government work in Florida, FSU with in-state tuition is not an awful prospect. It's just that people feel compelled to point out that you could save a shit ton of money by adding a few points. To not encourage you to limit your debt as much as possible would be to do you a disservice.

timbs4339
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:43 pm

SailorMoon9543 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
SailorMoon9543 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:Realize you might be making a terrible choice.
Evaluate whether you can achieve your goals with your current score.
Trust the experienced lawyers and law students who understand this process better than you do.
Accept their advice to give yourself the best chance to achieve your goals.
Kill your next LSAT sitting.
Enjoy a lot of money from current schools or significantly better job prospects at different ones.

In order to set yourself up to succeed in the legal profession you need to do well on a bunch of stressful tests starting with the LSAT. Now isn't the time to say "eh, I'll get em' next time" because you get only one shot at getting good 1L grades and your JD starts expiring fast if you don't pass the bar on the first try.

As for Stetson/UM/FIU employment scores vs FSU/UF, remember that not all law jobs are created equal. Once you get down into the morass of the non-institutional legal jobs, connections, ties, hustle, work experience, and just plain old luck matter a lot more than where you went to school or whether you're top 33% instead of top 50% as a 1L. FSU and UF are the only FL schools with AIII+large firm+PSLF qualifying scores over 30% (i.e. jobs you might be able to pay sticker back on within a reasonable time). UF also outpaces all the other Florida schools in AIII+biglaw employment by a few percentage points.


How can you read this thread, see that I'm NOT retaking the test, and STILL post that I should? Are you blind? Reposting a cute little saying about retaking that someone else made up doesn't make your comment any more helpful.


That analysis has been peer-reviewed and double-blind tested. If you don't want to do it, that's on you.

In all seriousness, your excuse for not retaking the LSAT is not particularly good, and I would caution you to think twice about entering a profession like the law if you have serious anxiety issues. Law school is known for exacerbating anxiety disorders and pairing them with other stuff like substance abuse.


Again, this is not helpful. Posters like you who intentionally try to make people feel bad (does it make you feel better somehow?) about their performance in law school and general outlook on life are why many people stay off of threads and forums. If you want to be an ass, go somewhere else. As I've said many times, I want opinions on my current options. Anything else is not welcome.


If you want that, there's LSN and a bunch of decision trackers (and you can always just ignore our posts and focus on the ones you find relevant). CNN just ran a frigging front page story on the psych issues faced by lawyers. We don't know if you're even aware of that stuff, and you should be made aware.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:43 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sublime
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby sublime » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:43 pm

..

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cron1834
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby cron1834 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:44 pm

SailorMoon9543 wrote:
As I said, it would take me forever to explain my anxiety situation. If you'd really like to understand the inner workings of anxiety and how it effects people, go to school and study psychology. You've been really helpful (kidding!). Now please leave.


Hahaha. I love when ignorant people make ignorant assumptions. I've been diagnosed GAD and have been on meds for years. Wrote all about mental health in my PS, even though most consider it a risky topic. My dad runs a mental health center, and my sis is a clinical psychologist. I have the utmost respect for those who seek mental health assistance, as it put food on my family's table. What I don't have respect for is mule-stubborn irrationality. Your therapist clearly needs to work on cognition in your sessions.

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sublime
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby sublime » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:44 pm

..

timbs4339
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:45 pm

SailorMoon9543 wrote:


Law school is known for exacerbating anxiety disorders and pairing them with other stuff like substance abuse.[/quote]

Bullshit.[/quote]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/19/us/lawyer ... ?hpt=hp_t2
http://apps.americanbar.org/abapubs/lrc/pdfs/stress.pdf
http://www.law.fsu.edu/academic_program ... njamin.pdf
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10100457
Last edited by timbs4339 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:47 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: FSU, UF or W&M?

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 4:49 pm

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Last edited by SailorMoon9543 on Tue May 20, 2014 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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