T10, T14, T15, or T20?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Poll ended at Thu Feb 06, 2014 2:47 am

T10
25
22%
T14
67
60%
T15
5
4%
T20
15
13%
 
Total votes: 112

Zeeguy91
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Zeeguy91 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:50 am

BigZuck wrote:I have only interviewed with about 8 firms so someone like Rad can set me straight if this is wrong but no one has ever asked or talked about my "Analytical skills, mediation skills, research, writing, hands-on experience."

Also, as a UT bro all I can say is lulz at putting it on par with the T14. I like the school and it has been good to me so far but come on.

I'm with Nelson, gotta be a troll.


Well, according to the most recent numbers, you have about as good a chance as a Northwestern grad and an even better chance than a Georgetown grad at getting full-time employment 9 months after graduation. So, I'd say UT compares with the T14. And, you know, it WAS actually ranked in the #14 slot (tied with Georgetown) back in 2011.

Zeeguy91
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Zeeguy91 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:57 am

guano wrote:
Backpacker wrote:
guano wrote:I doubt the "national placement" of half the T14
Which half?
The half that isn't HYS


nevermind
Last edited by Zeeguy91 on Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:10 am

Zeeguy91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I have only interviewed with about 8 firms so someone like Rad can set me straight if this is wrong but no one has ever asked or talked about my "Analytical skills, mediation skills, research, writing, hands-on experience."

Also, as a UT bro all I can say is lulz at putting it on par with the T14. I like the school and it has been good to me so far but come on.

I'm with Nelson, gotta be a troll.


Well, according to the most recent numbers, you have about as good a chance as a Northwestern grad and an even better chance than a Georgetown grad at getting full-time employment 9 months after graduation. So, I'd say UT compares with the T14. And, you know, it WAS actually ranked in the #14 slot (tied with Georgetown) back in 2011.


Please stop

Zeeguy91
Posts: 35
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2014 12:13 pm

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Zeeguy91 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:44 am

BigZuck wrote:
Zeeguy91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I have only interviewed with about 8 firms so someone like Rad can set me straight if this is wrong but no one has ever asked or talked about my "Analytical skills, mediation skills, research, writing, hands-on experience."

Also, as a UT bro all I can say is lulz at putting it on par with the T14. I like the school and it has been good to me so far but come on.

I'm with Nelson, gotta be a troll.


Well, according to the most recent numbers, you have about as good a chance as a Northwestern grad and an even better chance than a Georgetown grad at getting full-time employment 9 months after graduation. So, I'd say UT compares with the T14. And, you know, it WAS actually ranked in the #14 slot (tied with Georgetown) back in 2011.


Please stop


Hey, I'm just telling the truth. Would I go to UT over Georgetown? Idk. Maybe. Maybe not. I most definitely would go to Northwestern or Berkeley over UT, though. Regardless, though, I'm just trying to understand why there's this sharp divide between schools that are literally so close in certain respects. It just doesn't make that much sense to me. Most people I've talked to have never even heard of the concept of the T14. Even people who I knew who went to law school or who contemplated law school. Sorry if you think I'm trolling or if that bothers you, but its just the way I feel about the topic.

20141023
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby 20141023 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:10 am

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rickgrimes69
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sat Mar 31, 2012 8:56 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:00 am

BigZuck wrote:
Zeeguy91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I have only interviewed with about 8 firms so someone like Rad can set me straight if this is wrong but no one has ever asked or talked about my "Analytical skills, mediation skills, research, writing, hands-on experience."

Also, as a UT bro all I can say is lulz at putting it on par with the T14. I like the school and it has been good to me so far but come on.

I'm with Nelson, gotta be a troll.


Well, according to the most recent numbers, you have about as good a chance as a Northwestern grad and an even better chance than a Georgetown grad at getting full-time employment 9 months after graduation. So, I'd say UT compares with the T14. And, you know, it WAS actually ranked in the #14 slot (tied with Georgetown) back in 2011.


Please stop

BigZuck
Posts: 10884
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:04 pm

Zeeguy91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Zeeguy91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I have only interviewed with about 8 firms so someone like Rad can set me straight if this is wrong but no one has ever asked or talked about my "Analytical skills, mediation skills, research, writing, hands-on experience."

Also, as a UT bro all I can say is lulz at putting it on par with the T14. I like the school and it has been good to me so far but come on.

I'm with Nelson, gotta be a troll.


Well, according to the most recent numbers, you have about as good a chance as a Northwestern grad and an even better chance than a Georgetown grad at getting full-time employment 9 months after graduation. So, I'd say UT compares with the T14. And, you know, it WAS actually ranked in the #14 slot (tied with Georgetown) back in 2011.


Please stop


Hey, I'm just telling the truth. Would I go to UT over Georgetown? Idk. Maybe. Maybe not. I most definitely would go to Northwestern or Berkeley over UT, though. Regardless, though, I'm just trying to understand why there's this sharp divide between schools that are literally so close in certain respects. It just doesn't make that much sense to me. Most people I've talked to have never even heard of the concept of the T14. Even people who I knew who went to law school or who contemplated law school. Sorry if you think I'm trolling or if that bothers you, but its just the way I feel about the topic.


That's way too overly simplistic. I wanted to work in TX, and I was also interested in TX big law. But cost was a huge consideration for me. I had my choice of all of those schools you listed (except for Berkeley). If all I wanted was big law I would have taken a T14. But because I cared about cost and was ok with not big law, I chose UT.

It's not nearly as simple as GULC<UT<NU. Sometimes UT is a way better choice than NU (want to work in TX and its way cheaper than NU), sometimes GULC is way better than NU (equivalent cost and want to work in DC), etc., etc.

Anyway, UT isn't really close to those other schools. It is extremely TX focused (for obvious reasons). It has some degree of national placement, but mostly that is just for tippy top students. It's basically the ideal of a "strong regional." It is definitely not a big law feeder except *maybe* in the state of TX, but even then TX big law isn't exactly easy to get.

User avatar
bombaysippin
Posts: 1977
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 3:11 pm

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby bombaysippin » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:18 pm

Zeeguy91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
Zeeguy91 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I have only interviewed with about 8 firms so someone like Rad can set me straight if this is wrong but no one has ever asked or talked about my "Analytical skills, mediation skills, research, writing, hands-on experience."

Also, as a UT bro all I can say is lulz at putting it on par with the T14. I like the school and it has been good to me so far but come on.

I'm with Nelson, gotta be a troll.


Well, according to the most recent numbers, you have about as good a chance as a Northwestern grad and an even better chance than a Georgetown grad at getting full-time employment 9 months after graduation. So, I'd say UT compares with the T14. And, you know, it WAS actually ranked in the #14 slot (tied with Georgetown) back in 2011.


Please stop


Hey, I'm just telling the truth. Would I go to UT over Georgetown? Idk. Maybe. Maybe not. I most definitely would go to Northwestern or Berkeley over UT, though. Regardless, though, I'm just trying to understand why there's this sharp divide between schools that are literally so close in certain respects. It just doesn't make that much sense to me. Most people I've talked to have never even heard of the concept of the T14. Even people who I knew who went to law school or who contemplated law school. Sorry if you think I'm trolling or if that bothers you, but its just the way I feel about the topic.


How do people in law school/contemplating law school not know about T14...

User avatar
guano
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby guano » Sat Jan 25, 2014 12:27 pm

Bajam wrote:
Zeeguy91 wrote:Hey, I'm just telling the truth. Would I go to UT over Georgetown? Idk. Maybe. Maybe not. I most definitely would go to Northwestern or Berkeley over UT, though. Regardless, though, I'm just trying to understand why there's this sharp divide between schools that are literally so close in certain respects. It just doesn't make that much sense to me. Most people I've talked to have never even heard of the concept of the T14. Even people who I knew who went to law school or who contemplated law school. Sorry if you think I'm trolling or if that bothers you, but its just the way I feel about the topic.


How do people in law school/contemplating law school not know about T14...

a lot of people don't actually put any thought/research into it. How else do you think Cooley fills its class?

Most people don't know much about anything, which includes most of the people Zeeguy talks to, apparently.
The more important thing to point out is that there actually is a sharp divide between the T14 and the schools even ranked 15-18. The employment data shows that there is a clear distinction with regards to desirable employment. It's not just imaginary

User avatar
cron1834
Posts: 1921
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:36 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby cron1834 » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:42 pm

Zeeguy, I hope you are forthright on your resume by honestly disclosing your cognitive developmental disorder.

It has been shown here many times that DESIRABLE jobs are the crucial distinction, and that every T14 is better than every non T14 by this measure. Georgetown lags the others a little in desirable jobs & overall rate, but it's widely known that their numbers suffer a bit bc so many people at Georgetown are gunning for DC public interest.

Even if you don't cut them a break for this, their Biglaw + FedClerk numbers are definitely higher than any non T14. Look at these numbers (not just overall employment, dude) and try to let them sink into your thick skull.

User avatar
patogordo
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:33 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby patogordo » Sat Jan 25, 2014 3:54 pm

The median salary after graduation at Brooklyn Law School is 160,000! Can't argue with math, bitches!

User avatar
guano
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby guano » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:40 pm

patogordo wrote:The median salary after graduation at Brooklyn Law School is 160,000*! Can't argue with math, bitches!

*of those reporting income

User avatar
Vincent
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:57 pm

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Vincent » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:51 pm

I believe a better definition of the Top 14 is that all of these schools have, at some point, been ranked in the Top 10 of the USNWR rankings.

Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:53 pm

Vincent wrote:I believe a better definition of the Top 14 is that all of these schools have, at some point, been ranked in the Top 10 of the USNWR rankings.


No that's dumb.

User avatar
LyricsToLitigation
Posts: 240
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:42 pm

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby LyricsToLitigation » Sat Jan 25, 2014 4:56 pm

patogordo wrote:The median salary after graduation at Brooklyn Law School is 160,000! Can't argue with math, bitches!


take a stats class. Skewing the data and the representation of the data is a fantastic way of making your school look better than it is.

Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:03 pm

LyricsToLitigation wrote:
patogordo wrote:The median salary after graduation at Brooklyn Law School is 160,000! Can't argue with math, bitches!


take a stats class. Skewing the data and the representation of the data is a fantastic way of making your school look better than it is.


Take a sarcasm class. It's an effective way of making your point while also exposing idiots.

User avatar
Vincent
Posts: 258
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2011 6:57 pm

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Vincent » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:04 pm

Mal Reynolds wrote:
Vincent wrote:I believe a better definition of the Top 14 is that all of these schools have, at some point, been ranked in the Top 10 of the USNWR rankings.


No that's dumb.


Includes of the current Top 14, excludes all others. Excludes Texas even though they were "14th" a couple of years ago, and all other instances of this. Institutionalized tiers don't happen overnight, but they're not set in stone either. This leaves open the possibility of a new school joining the "Top 14" if they gain enough peer credibility (never going away)/employment outcomes (important)/incoming GPA and LSAT (until USNWR decides those are criteria to be de-emphasized)/yield (stealing enough candidates away from the nominal T14 because this new school is actually desirable to attend)/etc. enough to break the top 10. Looks to be incredibly difficult - but if a school can do it, all the power to them.

Unless you want some hybrid definition that lets schools fall out of T14 if they lower their average ranking below 14 (which, again, will take a while). I'd be good with that, too.

Mal Reynolds
Posts: 12630
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2011 12:16 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby Mal Reynolds » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:10 pm

Vincent wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:
Vincent wrote:I believe a better definition of the Top 14 is that all of these schools have, at some point, been ranked in the Top 10 of the USNWR rankings.


No that's dumb.


Includes of the current Top 14, excludes all others. Excludes Texas even though they were "14th" a couple of years ago, and all other instances of this. Institutionalized tiers don't happen overnight, but they're not set in stone either. This leaves open the possibility of a new school joining the "Top 14" if they gain enough peer credibility (never going away)/employment outcomes (important)/incoming GPA and LSAT (until USNWR decides those are criteria to be de-emphasized)/yield (stealing enough candidates away from the nominal T14 because this new school is actually desirable to attend)/etc. enough to break the top 10. Looks to be incredibly difficult - but if a school can do it, all the power to them.

Unless you want some hybrid definition that lets schools fall out of T14 if they lower their average ranking below 14 (which, again, will take a while). I'd be good with that, too.


This adds complexity without adding any tangible benefit.

User avatar
patogordo
Posts: 4827
Joined: Tue Jan 14, 2014 3:33 am

Re: T10, T14, T15, or T20?

Postby patogordo » Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:28 pm

Clearly the only reason for the massive drop off in employment prospects after the T14 is that employers haven't dived deep enough into the Kabbalah numerology required to accurately determine which schools graduate garbage lawyers and which ones don't.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: existentialcrisis, iluvlawschool, Yahoo [Bot] and 1 guest