I don't know what to do

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Penn State Vs. South Carolina

Poll ended at Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:21 pm

Penn State - Full tuition scholarship
8
50%
South Carolina - paying 20k and where I really want to go
8
50%
 
Total votes: 16

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:19 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:Have you tried negotiating with South Carolina and using your Penn State scholarship for leverage? You definitely help their GPA median, so you might be able to wring more money out of them.

But yeah, either way, retake in February. Don't go to SC unless it becomes free/very cheap.




Thank you all for the support and help.

I must say this: I am not sitting out this cycle.

I will use the Penn State as leverage but I have heard that it is too soon to do that and that I am not gonna squeeze anymore out of SC

I cannot become a resident because my scholarship's stipulations clearly state that I will retain this scholarship only if I am not a resident, weird I know.

I haven't done LSAT prep in 3 months. May the Lord help me with February.

And yes, my GPA is well above the 75th, and I believe my LSAT is at the 75th.

You guys are great.
Thank you again.

User avatar
Dingo Starr
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:50 am

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Dingo Starr » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:42 pm

Lwoods1020 wrote:I will use the Penn State as leverage but I have heard that it is too soon to do that and that I am not gonna squeeze anymore out of SC

Who told you that you can't squeeze more out of SC?
Even when a school tells you that there is no money or that they will not give you any more money, you should be asking for money at least one more time after that.
Sounds like you haven't started squeezing yet. There's more blood in that stone. Don't be disheartened until it's the month before classes and you've already gotten rejections for at least three scholarship increase requests from SC.

User avatar
Gooner91
Posts: 1376
Joined: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:34 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Gooner91 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 8:49 pm

Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:01 pm

Dingo Starr wrote:
Lwoods1020 wrote:I will use the Penn State as leverage but I have heard that it is too soon to do that and that I am not gonna squeeze anymore out of SC

Who told you that you can't squeeze more out of SC?
Even when a school tells you that there is no money or that they will not give you any more money, you should be asking for money at least one more time after that.
Sounds like you haven't started squeezing yet. There's more blood in that stone. Don't be disheartened until it's the month before classes and you've already gotten rejections for at least three scholarship increase requests from SC.


someone in the SC 2017 thread, it I know that school - SC doesn't have the funds. It is a poor state. When should i negotiate - February? Tomorrow? And thank you for the encouragement, it is making me feel better. It is honestly so depressing missing out on your favorite school.

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:03 pm

Gooner91 wrote:Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?


It's honestly because I am just so eager to start and be back in school. I don't want to delay having the career I want and feel that I would be so good at anymore than I need to. I thought my stats would be able to get me there. 159 is at USC's 75th - I feel a little cheated. haha
And honestly because I don't want to lose momentum.


in state is 24 k, I'd be paying 20k.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:34 pm

Lwoods1020 wrote:
Gooner91 wrote:Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?


It's honestly because I am just so eager to start and be back in school. I don't want to delay having the career I want and feel that I would be so good at anymore than I need to. I thought my stats would be able to get me there. 159 is at USC's 75th - I feel a little cheated. haha
And honestly because I don't want to lose momentum.


in state is 24 k, I'd be paying 20k.


How old are you? You know that everyone "feels that they'd be good" at law, right? Obviously not everyone is that good, since SC has an employment score of 70%.

You should move to the state you want to live in, work for a year, and get residency, and negotiate from there.

californiauser
Posts: 1181
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:10 am

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby californiauser » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:38 pm

Lwoods1020 wrote:
Gooner91 wrote:Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?


It's honestly because I am just so eager to start and be back in school. I don't want to delay having the career I want and feel that I would be so good at anymore than I need to. I thought my stats would be able to get me there. 159 is at USC's 75th - I feel a little cheated. haha
And honestly because I don't want to lose momentum.


in state is 24 k, I'd be paying 20k.


I don't buy this. It'd be one thing if you were gunning for big law and were set to go a school that would give you a good shot at it. But in all likelyhood you'll end up (ideally) in a job that pays 35-50k out of Carolina. Why not get a job that pays this much with your BA (these jobs do exist) and retake and apply next cycle?

User avatar
Dingo Starr
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:50 am

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Dingo Starr » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:45 pm

Lwoods1020 wrote:someone in the SC 2017 thread, it I know that school - SC doesn't have the funds. It is a poor state. When should i negotiate - February? Tomorrow? And thank you for the encouragement, it is making me feel better. It is honestly so depressing missing out on your favorite school.

One person in the SC 2017 thread doesn't make a thing necessarily so.
As for the onset of negotiations, I have no idea when the best time to begin is for you. I am in a similar boat, in some respects anyway, and I have no idea when I will send out my negotiation letters. Right now, I am thinking about waiting until I have word back from the majority of my applications. If you read the scholarship negotiation threads you will see that there are generally two schools of thought on the matter. One camp says to negotiate early in order to capture the largest possible pool of scholarship funds. The other camp says to wait until the last moment, when you can really apply the greatest force to your leverage because schools are the most desperate to fill their classes and boost their numbers. It is hard to say what is right for you particularly, irrespective of which viewpoint is generally correct. Both camps agree that giving up will not get you any more funds. So do I.

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:15 am

timbs4339 wrote:
Lwoods1020 wrote:
Gooner91 wrote:Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?


It's honestly because I am just so eager to start and be back in school. I don't want to delay having the career I want and feel that I would be so good at anymore than I need to. I thought my stats would be able to get me there. 159 is at USC's 75th - I feel a little cheated. haha
And honestly because I don't want to lose momentum.


in state is 24 k, I'd be paying 20k.


How old are you? You know that everyone "feels that they'd be good" at law, right? Obviously not everyone is that good, since SC has an employment score of 70%.

You should move to the state you want to live in, work for a year, and get residency, and negotiate from there.


23 is that important?

I want to live in SC haha to get residency you have to like own property or be a dependent of someone who is. Renting an apartment doesn't.

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 12:17 am

Dingo Starr wrote:
Lwoods1020 wrote:someone in the SC 2017 thread, it I know that school - SC doesn't have the funds. It is a poor state. When should i negotiate - February? Tomorrow? And thank you for the encouragement, it is making me feel better. It is honestly so depressing missing out on your favorite school.

One person in the SC 2017 thread doesn't make a thing necessarily so.
As for the onset of negotiations, I have no idea when the best time to begin is for you. I am in a similar boat, in some respects anyway, and I have no idea when I will send out my negotiation letters. Right now, I am thinking about waiting until I have word back from the majority of my applications. If you read the scholarship negotiation threads you will see that there are generally two schools of thought on the matter. One camp says to negotiate early in order to capture the largest possible pool of scholarship funds. The other camp says to wait until the last moment, when you can really apply the greatest force to your leverage because schools are the most desperate to fill their classes and boost their numbers. It is hard to say what is right for you particularly, irrespective of which viewpoint is generally correct. Both camps agree that giving up will not get you any more funds. So do I.


Throw on a thread what you end up doing.. I am conflicted. I'm thinking a month ish before seat deposit deadline, thank you for your input and good luck!

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:12 am

Lwoods1020 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Lwoods1020 wrote:
Gooner91 wrote:Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?


It's honestly because I am just so eager to start and be back in school. I don't want to delay having the career I want and feel that I would be so good at anymore than I need to. I thought my stats would be able to get me there. 159 is at USC's 75th - I feel a little cheated. haha
And honestly because I don't want to lose momentum.


in state is 24 k, I'd be paying 20k.


How old are you? You know that everyone "feels that they'd be good" at law, right? Obviously not everyone is that good, since SC has an employment score of 70%.

You should move to the state you want to live in, work for a year, and get residency, and negotiate from there.


23 is that important?

I want to live in SC haha to get residency you have to like own property or be a dependent of someone who is. Renting an apartment doesn't.


It's important in the sense that it just shows how much taking a year off would benefit you. You're still really young: younger than the average law student. People who don't go straight through from undergrad tend to do better, both in school and in job hunting. I'm still not convinced you can't get more money out of SC, but if you can't, you should be prepared to wait a year.

As far as residency, that can't be right. If you move to South Carolina and get a job, a South Carolina driver's license, register to vote in South Carolina, register your car in South Carolina, and pay South Carolina state taxes, you're STILL not a resident after a year? Unless you own real estate? That's like some feudalism shit.

User avatar
Dingo Starr
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:50 am

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Dingo Starr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 8:16 am

Lwoods1020 wrote:to get residency you have to like own property or be a dependent of someone who is. Renting an apartment doesn't.

I bet you could raise the cash to buy a tiny plot (<acre) and suddenly you would own property in SC. If that is the only hurdle to residency, it's fairly minor. Get tenacious, if you really want a thing.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:44 am

Q: How do I prove I am a resident of South Carolina?
A: Residents generally have resided in the state of South Carolina for more than 1 year, have filed state income taxes for the previous tax year, and have a current, valid driver’s license or state identification card issued by the State of South Carolina. Other information that may be considered is car registration, employment, etc.

I don't see anything about owning property. I think you're mistaken.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22779
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:52 am

There is a clause about owning your permanent home in SC somewhere in there (I looked too because I thought it was so weird) - on this page (#6) https://sc.edu/bursar/instate.shtml, go to the student responsibilities tab. I have no idea how enforced it is (and my bet is it's a segregation holdover).

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:55 am

That seems insane. So if I was born in South Carolina, and lived my whole life in a rented apartment there, I'm not a resident for tuition purposes? Crazy.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:20 am

Lwoods1020 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Lwoods1020 wrote:
Gooner91 wrote:Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?


It's honestly because I am just so eager to start and be back in school. I don't want to delay having the career I want and feel that I would be so good at anymore than I need to. I thought my stats would be able to get me there. 159 is at USC's 75th - I feel a little cheated. haha
And honestly because I don't want to lose momentum.


in state is 24 k, I'd be paying 20k.


How old are you? You know that everyone "feels that they'd be good" at law, right? Obviously not everyone is that good, since SC has an employment score of 70%.

You should move to the state you want to live in, work for a year, and get residency, and negotiate from there.


23 is that important?

I want to live in SC haha to get residency you have to like own property or be a dependent of someone who is. Renting an apartment doesn't.


It's important because it show you're just being rash about this decision. Yeah, school is great, you don't have to worry about things like working for a living and can get up at 1 PM everyday and go to the bar on a Tuesday afternoon. And working the type of jobs you get out of college sucks. But trust me, a few years of post-college pre-adulthood is not worth the 100K in debt (1200/mo payments), when you have the option to do it much cheaper.

Here's a fun fact you'll learn on the bar, a "resident" usually just means someone who lives in the state enough to be taxed. Otherwise I'd be owed a lot in back taxes for all the years I've been renting. I don't know any law school that requires you to actually own property to be considered an in-state resident (what is this like 1803?)
Last edited by timbs4339 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:20 am

I want to live in SC haha to get residency you have to like own property or be a dependent of someone who is. Renting an apartment doesn't.[/quote]

It's important in the sense that it just shows how much taking a year off would benefit you. You're still really young: younger than the average law student. People who don't go straight through from undergrad tend to do better, both in school and in job hunting. I'm still not convinced you can't get more money out of SC, but if you can't, you should be prepared to wait a year.

As far as residency, that can't be right. If you move to South Carolina and get a job, a South Carolina driver's license, register to vote in South Carolina, register your car in South Carolina, and pay South Carolina state taxes, you're STILL not a resident after a year? Unless you own real estate? That's like some feudalism shit.[/quote]

I went to school there, I know. And my scholarship strictly states I will lose it if I become in state

and I did take a gap year - graduated May 2013 and enrolling in 2014

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:21 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:That seems insane. So if I was born in South Carolina, and lived my whole life in a rented apartment there, I'm not a resident for tuition purposes? Crazy.


That's different haha if you're out of state - born out of state and want to become in state, that is what you have to do.
I lived and worked in SC for school, couldn't get in state.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:22 am

Lwoods1020 wrote:I went to school there, I know. And my scholarship strictly states I will lose it if I become in state



Scholarships aren't written in stone. Negotiate.

User avatar
PepperJack
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:23 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby PepperJack » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:33 am

Lwoods1020 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Lwoods1020 wrote:
Gooner91 wrote:Why would you not sit out this cycle if you do mind me asking?

Is the scholarship to match in-state tuition?


It's honestly because I am just so eager to start and be back in school. I don't want to delay having the career I want and feel that I would be so good at anymore than I need to. I thought my stats would be able to get me there. 159 is at USC's 75th - I feel a little cheated. haha
And honestly because I don't want to lose momentum.


in state is 24 k, I'd be paying 20k.


How old are you? You know that everyone "feels that they'd be good" at law, right? Obviously not everyone is that good, since SC has an employment score of 70%.

You should move to the state you want to live in, work for a year, and get residency, and negotiate from there.


23 is that important?

I want to live in SC haha to get residency you have to like own property or be a dependent of someone who is. Renting an apartment doesn't.

It's likely you don't know exactly what lawyers do. Odds are that whatever you think will make you successful will be counterproductive. There is no momentum. You don't run in there kicking and screaming, and get an A because you can yell the loudest. This momentum business makes you seem insufferable. You read lots of archaic, outdated and generally useless crap, and then apply the crap to hypothetical fact patterns with a 1:1,000,000,000 chance of happening. Being young and passionate is at best useless and at worst going to lead to you burning out and being insufferable. The only real control you have in this process is how hard you work, and which school you go to. You can probably control being above median, but can't control being top 10% and you'd need to be top 10% at these types of schools to not be screwed. The people who do well treat it as a job, no more and no less. Passion, love, etc. are all completely useless.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 22779
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:38 am

TheSpanishMain wrote:That seems insane. So if I was born in South Carolina, and lived my whole life in a rented apartment there, I'm not a resident for tuition purposes? Crazy.

That's what the page suggests. Unless there's some kind of weirdly broad definition of "ownership" going on or something.

User avatar
Dingo Starr
Posts: 228
Joined: Thu Dec 26, 2013 4:50 am

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Dingo Starr » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:42 am

Lwoods1020 wrote:I went to school there, I know. And my scholarship strictly states I will lose it if I become in state

Odds are, their UG scholarship pool is different from their law school scholarship pool. Negotiate. The worst thing you can hear is no.

Lwoods1020
Posts: 172
Joined: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:12 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby Lwoods1020 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:43 am

Idk. They're not letting me have it now, after 4 years of going to school there.
They would have 0 out of state kids if you could do it living in an apartment.

And I wasn't saying I am not going to even try to get more money, I just think the chances aren't great to get them to even come close to penn state. I'd be thrilled with 5 more grand a year.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:54 am

Lwoods1020 wrote:Idk. They're not letting me have it now, after 4 years of going to school there.
They would have 0 out of state kids if you could do it living in an apartment.

And I wasn't saying I am not going to even try to get more money, I just think the chances aren't great to get them to even come close to penn state. I'd be thrilled with 5 more grand a year.


That's because those kids don't think they can negotiate. This is your home state and where you want to begin your career. If they don't give you a better deal than Penn State then walk away, live there for a year, retake, and reapply. You're 23 not 33.

I'm confused. You live in SC now and have lived there for more than a year, correct? It sounds like they are giving you a scholarship off an OOS tuition rate you shouldn't be paying.

I'm looking at this page (https://sc.edu/bursar/instate.shtml) and it seems property ownership is only one of several factors they consider. If you are domiciled there and paid resident taxes I have no clue why they wouldn't give you in-state, and would run the other way if they refuse.
Last edited by timbs4339 on Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
TheSpanishMain
Posts: 4110
Joined: Tue Apr 02, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: I don't know what to do

Postby TheSpanishMain » Thu Jan 09, 2014 10:57 am

Put it this way: if you go to Penn State, you will NOT get back to South Carolina. You will be geographically limited to PA. If what you want is to practice law in South Carolina, you need to figure out a way to make USC economically feasible. Negotiate. Go talk to the Bursar and figure out wtf is up with residency. Take a year off if necessary.

A year is nothing if it helps set you up for a multi-decade career in the region you want.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Dante181, ggnobbq and 7 guests