Graduating Top of Law Class

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chem!
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby chem! » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:14 pm

OP - you need to retake. Your GPA is not lethal, but your LSAT score is. Any school that will accept you with that score is not worth attending.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:16 pm

Can we just call this thread what it is??

A chance to finally decide the eternal question: Nova or Barry Law?

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yeslekkkk
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby yeslekkkk » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:17 pm

Intelligence does not necessarily equal success. I don't really care about your IQ or other prediction methods. You have two sub-par scores for the scores that do count. For example, I work with a high school student. He has a high IQ. You can tell he's a smart guy. Guess what? He's in special education lower level classes, and he's not succeeding. But wait! He has a high IQ! There can be other barriers to success, such as poor work ethic, other distractions, learning disabilities, etc. He has a poor worth ethic and has problems with focusing. Law schools can see your upward grade trend, but they're also going to see that 152 score and see that you didn't try to better that and you accepted that. I think if you're not willing to work harder on your LSAT... then you simply can not assume that you will outsmart and outwork your classmates at any institution for three years consecutively.

rad lulz
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:27 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

tiltedwindmill
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby tiltedwindmill » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:35 pm

Retake.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Danger Zone » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:37 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Mal Reynolds wrote:I suggest looking in to Barry Law. Far superior to Nova.

No way man. Nova is way better especially if you want to get into international law man

But everyone knows that Barry has the superior interstellar galactic domination program.

rad lulz
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:40 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:40 pm

Point one:

Oceans rise

Cities fall

Barry remains

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holdencaulfield
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby holdencaulfield » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:50 pm

LawSchoolHopeful1108 wrote:Well, my grades suffered during my first four years of college undergrad because I had to help support my elderly parents with a full-time job while going to school full-time as well. My final 1.5 years, I made Dean's List each semester and did not get a GPA lower than 3.98 because I was able to help my mother find a job (Which could take over supporting roles) and I was finally able to focus on school. I know that Law Schools look at the whole body of work and even I admit that my grades are not strong. However I feel like I proved that I could really turn things around if I have the time and chance to focus on my school work and not on extra-curriculars.

I know this is cliche and I am sure EVERYONE has thought the same thing at one time or another but I feel like I proved to myself that I have the drive to receive top grades if I can focus on doing so.

And no, I am not someone else. I am a first time poster/long time lurker. (reference to the comment a few posts above)

Once again, thanks for your time guys/girls. All these responses (even the distasteful ones) are appreciated.



Is it possible to have a semester GPA of 3.98?

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby lawhopeful10 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 1:58 pm

holdencaulfield wrote:
LawSchoolHopeful1108 wrote:Well, my grades suffered during my first four years of college undergrad because I had to help support my elderly parents with a full-time job while going to school full-time as well. My final 1.5 years, I made Dean's List each semester and did not get a GPA lower than 3.98 because I was able to help my mother find a job (Which could take over supporting roles) and I was finally able to focus on school. I know that Law Schools look at the whole body of work and even I admit that my grades are not strong. However I feel like I proved that I could really turn things around if I have the time and chance to focus on my school work and not on extra-curriculars.

I know this is cliche and I am sure EVERYONE has thought the same thing at one time or another but I feel like I proved to myself that I have the drive to receive top grades if I can focus on doing so.

And no, I am not someone else. I am a first time poster/long time lurker. (reference to the comment a few posts above)

Once again, thanks for your time guys/girls. All these responses (even the distasteful ones) are appreciated.



Is it possible to have a semester GPA of 3.98?

I think my first semester of undergrad I got that GPA because I had like two A+s which were higher than a 4 but also got one B+ and somehow it ended up at 3.98. This was four years ago though so I could be wrong.

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rpupkin
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby rpupkin » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:03 pm

Is it possible to have a semester GPA of 3.98?

I think my first semester of undergrad I got that GPA because I had like two A+s which were higher than a 4 but also got one B+ and somehow it ended up at 3.98. This was four years ago though so I could be wrong.


I'm guessing that neither of your A+s were in math.

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lawhopeful10
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby lawhopeful10 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 2:06 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Is it possible to have a semester GPA of 3.98?

I think my first semester of undergrad I got that GPA because I had like two A+s which were higher than a 4 but also got one B+ and somehow it ended up at 3.98. This was four years ago though so I could be wrong.


I'm guessing that neither of your A+s were in math.

Well I think the B+ was a 3.3333 and the A+s were a 4.333 and the other two were As so it should have added up to a 4 but I specifically remember being like damn its short for some reason. One of the As was in math lol but it was only Precalc.
Edit: okay just checked it and it was a 3.998 lol.

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Cicero76
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Cicero76 » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:25 pm

Does kappycaft1 spend all day every day categorizing and databasing the entirety of TLS so he can dredge up reams of on-point quotes to lambaste flame threads?

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guano
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby guano » Fri Jan 03, 2014 3:33 pm

LawSchoolHopeful1108 wrote:Well, my grades suffered during my first four years of college undergrad because I had to help support my elderly parents with a full-time job while going to school full-time as well. My final 1.5 years, I made Dean's List each semester and did not get a GPA lower than 3.98 because I was able to help my mother find a job (Which could take over supporting roles) and I was finally able to focus on school. I know that Law Schools look at the whole body of work and even I admit that my grades are not strong. However I feel like I proved that I could really turn things around if I have the time and chance to focus on my school work and not on extra-curriculars.

I know this is cliche and I am sure EVERYONE has thought the same thing at one time or another but I feel like I proved to myself that I have the drive to receive top grades if I can focus on doing so.

And no, I am not someone else. I am a first time poster/long time lurker. (reference to the comment a few posts above)

Once again, thanks for your time guys/girls. All these responses (even the distasteful ones) are appreciated.

It is incredibly arrogant to think you'll be top 2%. Half your class will have a sob story about why they didn't do well in UG. Maybe if your LSAT was very high you might have a better argument, but as it stands your GPA/LSAT is typical for the school you're looking at and it's reasonable to assume you'll be a typical student.

I'm also concerned with the fact you want to work with (1) a specific firm, (2) with only 7 lawyers, that (3) you don't have a connection to.

Good luck

Kimikho
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Kimikho » Fri Jan 03, 2014 4:49 pm

I thought it would have been really cool if OP's IQ was the same as his/her LSAT score.

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guano
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby guano » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:06 pm

scoobers wrote:I thought it would have been really cool if OP's IQ was the same as his/her LSAT score.

LSAT starts at 120...

Mal Reynolds
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Mal Reynolds » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:10 pm

guano wrote:
scoobers wrote:I thought it would have been really cool if OP's IQ was the same as his/her LSAT score.

LSAT starts at 120...


Wow somebody is dumber than guano.

BigZuck
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:24 pm

Cicero76 wrote:Does kappycaft1 spend all day every day categorizing and databasing the entirety of TLS so he can dredge up reams of on-point quotes to lambaste flame threads?


:)

OP-retake

Kimikho
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Kimikho » Fri Jan 03, 2014 5:24 pm

guano wrote:
scoobers wrote:I thought it would have been really cool if OP's IQ was the same as his/her LSAT score.

LSAT starts at 120...


lol misread one of kappycaft1's quotes as the OP's :oops:

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jingosaur
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby jingosaur » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:21 pm

Cicero76 wrote:Does kappycaft1 spend all day every day categorizing and databasing the entirety of TLS so he can dredge up reams of on-point quotes to lambaste flame threads?

I'm assuming yes.


OP, Retake.

TCR is Nova Southeastern over Barry because if you go to Nova, you get the inside track to admission for Florida Atlantic's Master of Urban and Regional Planning program and get both a JD and a MURP.

http://www.nsulaw.nova.edu/prospective/ ... ograms.cfm

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Nonconsecutive
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby Nonconsecutive » Fri Jan 03, 2014 6:28 pm

Cicero76 wrote:Does kappycaft1 spend all day every day categorizing and databasing the entirety of TLS so he can dredge up reams of on-point quotes to lambaste flame threads?



I hope so. :lol:

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unodostres
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby unodostres » Fri Jan 03, 2014 7:19 pm

Doesn't surprise me that someone with a 152 can't see the flaw in reasoning when he compares his work in UG to grad school.

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midwest17
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby midwest17 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:10 pm

lawhopeful10 wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Is it possible to have a semester GPA of 3.98?

I think my first semester of undergrad I got that GPA because I had like two A+s which were higher than a 4 but also got one B+ and somehow it ended up at 3.98. This was four years ago though so I could be wrong.


I'm guessing that neither of your A+s were in math.

Well I think the B+ was a 3.3333 and the A+s were a 4.333 and the other two were As so it should have added up to a 4 but I specifically remember being like damn its short for some reason. One of the As was in math lol but it was only Precalc.
Edit: okay just checked it and it was a 3.998 lol.


Yeah, this actually works (at those ridiculous schools that give higher than 4.0). It's because they round to a certain number of decimal places before they average, rather than afterwards.

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midwest17
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby midwest17 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 4:54 pm

Also, this is gold:

kappycaft1 wrote:
LawSchoolHopeful1108 (3.00 LSDAS GPA) wrote:Hello everyone!! Long time browser and first time poster here. First of all, I want to thank everyone ahead of time for taking time out of their day/night to respond to my question(s). I really appreciate any help and advice that will be shared here.

So my question... (some background info first)
For a variety of reasons, some in my control and others not, I will be attending Law School in South Florida. My schools of choice are Stetson, St. Thomas and Nova Southeastern Law. I understand that these schools are lower tier schools and that it is much better to attend higher tier schools but I had trouble with my undergrad and as a result, my grades are not flattering. (3.0 gpa, 152 LSAT).

So for that question:
What difference does graduating top of my class make in terms of employment opportunities? I never expected a 100,000/yearly salary to start but could only hope to one day be rewarded with such a salary due to my high work rate.
Now I really mean graduating top of my class. I'm not talking not even top 10% or top 5% but more around the top 2%. I want to stay local, Miami is where I live and where I want to grow as a person and lawyer. I understand that it is impossible to predict where one will place in class rankings but assuming such predictions were possible and I graduated top 2% at St. Thomas/Nova Southeastern, would it be reasonable to expect to be able to find a job that pays around 50,000/yearly?

Thanks for your time and I wish you all the best during 2014.
jreeve12 (3.50 LSDAS GPA) wrote:I never said that I would ultimately be a SCOTUS clerk, but I DO have a good basis to say that I would be in at least the top 2-5% at whatever program I am accepted into. Will that translate into a clerkship with Jeffrey Sutton? Maybe, maybe not, but I like my odds!

Let's look at it this way. I have an overall IQ of 153 and a verbal reasoning sub-score of 160 (more highly correlated with success in law school than the LSAT). There are only 30,000 people in the entire United States. Assuming an average class size of 600, then if EVERY person with an IQ that high went to Harvard Law since 1962, then Harvard Law could BARELY fill its class with people with those scores. Of course, far from 100% of people with those IQ scores, I'd be SHOCKED if Harvard Law got even 10% of people with those scores. What do you think it's going to be at UVA? 1%? MAYBE? I have actually had a 4.0 for the last 3 semesters of college. I told you that we lived in the age of the genius slacker, and in addition to some poor grades from my undergrad, I made some poor choices from my freshman year that are dragging down my grades. I rushed and became too involved in my fraternity, became too caught up in college life, and paid the consequences. I am REALLY good at leveraging my intellectual talents towards compensating for a very mild cognitive deficit, and I will continue to kick ass at whatever law school I attend. You think I'm just going to slack off after making up my mind to pursue a clerkship wit a feeder-judge? Please. As I've said, my disability actually gives me an advantage: I have to work hard from day 1, and, when I've made the decision to succeed, I don't let up until it's over. I will import that same intensity wherever I go in life. I am no longer some impressionable young freshman chump.
Feigngrav3 (3.23 LSDAS GPA) wrote:I actually come from a wealthy family so money is not an issue and my father is a CPA who owns his own firm. I have over two years experience working at his accounting firm. Also, I have experience working at a software company and oil company which are both owned by my father. Of course I'm not going to put that my father owns the two companies but will have the respective CEO's as the references. I have always tested well and was smart but was very immature and unmotivated. That changed over the last two years so I do not expect to be outside of the top 5% of my class at law school
Criteslaw (3.27 LSDAS GPA) wrote:I really appreciate the sincere and thorough response. The majority of my anxiety to leave my job right now stems from dissatisfaction due to unfulfilled potential. I have an extremely high IQ (144), but I truly under performed in college (if I even attended any of it). Facing the real world has forced me to mature and I am desperate to adjust my career trajectory. I have developed work ethic and shed my lazy tendencies and I want another shot.

For my cost-benefit analysis, I must admit, I was not using 45-55k as a starting salary post law school. I know that this is going to sound egotistical and naive, but I am an excellent interviewee (hence, my current job) and very well spoken. With satisfactory grades in law school, I was using a starting salary of 100K for my calculations. I do understand that there are extremely unfavorable market conditions currently, but I am confident in my ability to perform during law school.

...

Like I stated earlier, it is extremely depressing for me to play it safe for 55k a year and watch other less talented individuals pursue my dreams and succeed.

Seriously though, what is the deal with people who did horribly in undergrad and their insane confidence that they will crush the competition in law school? :lol:

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PepperJack
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Re: Graduating Top of Law Class

Postby PepperJack » Sun Jan 05, 2014 10:39 pm

Well, if one did really have an overall IQ of 153, a verbal reasoning IQ of 160 and worked reasonably hard without ever getting sick/distracted, they would likely be at the top of any law school class. However, I don't know how they'd get a poor enough LSAT score to go to a TTT. I mean, if you have a 153 IQ, you're going to be able to identify logic patterns with a wee bit of instruction. Doing good/bad on the LSAT isn't prima facie evidence of IQ, but there's a reason that MENSA allows membership based on LSAT scores.




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