Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

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tlsforumid
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Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby tlsforumid » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:44 pm

Should I go to UVA or Duke at sticker or take an 80,000 scholarship to Vandy? I know UVA and Duke are probably better schools, but I'm not sure if they are better for me. I'm pretty confident I won't graduate first in my class no matter where I go so I'm not even really considering SCOTUS or federal clerkship opportunities. I am considering firm employment data, though. I want BigLaw, but not Cravath big. Or GibsonDunn big. Or even Kirkland and Ellis big. I want to practice in either Atlanta or Nashville. Atlanta firms: Jones Day, Paul Hastings, Alston and Bird, King and Spalding. Nashville firms: Bass Berry Sims, Baker Donelson, Bradley Arant Boult Cummings. So I guess what I'm asking is are my chances of landing a job at one of these firms really so much greater going to Duke or UVA to outweigh the 80,000 less in debt I would have going to Vandy? Thanks!

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Philafaler
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Philafaler » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:47 pm

Do you have ties to either of those regions?

Have you actually been accepted to all those schools?

Are you sure you won't receive any money from UVA or Duke?

Stats?

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ThetaX
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby ThetaX » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:48 pm

At that price and with your target market, Vandy is almost a no-brainer. That is serious money, and there is no way that UVA or Duke are worth any more than $20,000, let alone $80,000, for your goals.

tlsforumid
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby tlsforumid » Tue Dec 31, 2013 4:56 pm

ThetaX wrote:At that price and with your target market, Vandy is almost a no-brainer. That is serious money, and there is no way that UVA or Duke are worth any more than $20,000, let alone $80,000, for your goals.

Ok thanks. I know I may be getting ahead of myself here, but another thing I am thinking about is partnership prospects. Would it be easier to bring in business to my firms with UVA or Duke on my name over Vandy? Would higher end clients be more interested in me as an attorney? thanks.

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ThetaX
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby ThetaX » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:02 pm

tlsforumid wrote:
ThetaX wrote:At that price and with your target market, Vandy is almost a no-brainer. That is serious money, and there is no way that UVA or Duke are worth any more than $20,000, let alone $80,000, for your goals.

Ok thanks. I know I may be getting ahead of myself here, but another thing I am thinking about is partnership prospects. Would it be easier to bring in business to my firms with UVA or Duke on my name over Vandy? Would higher end clients be more interested in me as an attorney? thanks.


No. If you stay in Nashville, especially so. Marginal difference at best. Also paying sticker at UVA or Duke is still a crazy thing to do, T14 and all.

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blink
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby blink » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:04 pm

How did you find out about your vandy scholly? Would you mind sharing stats?

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yomisterd
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby yomisterd » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:22 pm

Philafaler wrote:Have you actually been accepted to all those schools?

Are you sure you won't receive any money from UVA or Duke?


These questions are key.

BigZuck
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:32 pm

This is a hypo, isn't it? Be honest.

I'm not on board with Theta for the most part. 80K isn't all that much of a scholarship if you have to take out loans for COL. The OP would still probably be close to 150ishK in debt, and then would be faced with pretty decent big law prospects but absolutely needing big law to pay it off. At Duke/UVA the OP would be more in the hole (obviously) but his/her big law chances would be significantly greater. After a certain debt threshold, getting a big law job becomes basically a neccesity and I would probably be willing to pay more just to greatly increase the odds of snagging that job. If I had a gun to my head and I was faced with Vandy w/80K or UVA/Duke at sticker, I would probably chose whichever was cheaper between Duke and UVA.

Anyway, I suspect that these aren't real options given that it is not even January yet. My scholarship offer last cycle at Vandy was exactly the same as my offer at Cornell and I got Duke to match, so Duke and Vandy were very close in price when it came time for me to choice. At similar prices, Duke is a no brainer over Vandy, I suspect even if you want to work big law in Nashville.

Ti Malice
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:34 pm

ThetaX wrote:At that price and with your target market, Vandy is almost a no-brainer. That is serious money, and there is no way that UVA or Duke are worth any more than $20,000, let alone $80,000, for your goals.


This is bad advice. Especially the $20K comment -- that's just preposterous.

With the $80K scholarship, OP would still graduate with $170K+ of non-dischargeable debt at the beginning of repayment, which is completely unjustifiable for Vandy. OP would need to be top-third to have any chance in Nashville, even with ties (rad can provide more details), and Duke and UVA would both give him a better shot in Atlanta. UVA and Duke place 60-65% more of their classes into BigLaw+FedClerk overall. If it's clear after 1L that OP doesn't have the grades for Atlanta or Nashville, UVA or Duke will at least give him a much better shot at a job that will allow him to pay down his debt, even if it's not in his target market. I would personally never consider paying sticker at either school, but it's still a better choice than $175K of debt out of Vandy.

Anyway, this smells like a hypo. Someone with $80K from Vandy should have a little money from at least one of Duke or UVA.

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ThetaX
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby ThetaX » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:40 pm

So Vandy is only justifiable with a full-ride? Does that make sense? But regardless, I was working under the assumption that this was a real scenario and OP had no other scholarships in play.

arklaw13
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby arklaw13 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:42 pm

Vandy 1L here. All three schools will place well into the markets you mentioned if you have ties. The difference is probably the grades you'll need. Less than top 20% at Vandy and the Nashville firms probably won't look at you, whereas a median student at Duke or UVA might have a shot (really not sure). Firms in Atlanta are very grade-conscious as well.

If you don't have ties, it will be rough to break into any of those markets, especially without great grades.

I don't know if I'd take UVA or Duke for $80k more, but you also should note that a median student at those schools will have better options, since they place better in NYC (I realize you don't want to go there necessarily, but ITE you need to be prepared for the possibility).

Your question could be better answered if you told us if you grew up in the Southeasr or went to undergrad there.

Ti Malice
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:42 pm

tlsforumid wrote:I know I may be getting ahead of myself here, but another thing I am thinking about is partnership prospects. Would it be easier to bring in business to my firms with UVA or Duke on my name over Vandy? Would higher end clients be more interested in me as an attorney? thanks.


Yes, you are getting way ahead of yourself. You're very unlikely to make partner. Think about actually getting a BigLaw job for now. With Vandy, you have significantly less than a coin flip's chance at BigLaw anywhere.

Ti Malice
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:43 pm

BigZuck wrote:This is a hypo, isn't it? Be honest.

I'm not on board with Theta for the most part. 80K isn't all that much of a scholarship if you have to take out loans for COL. The OP would still probably be close to 150ishK in debt, and then would be faced with pretty decent big law prospects but absolutely needing big law to pay it off. At Duke/UVA the OP would be more in the hole (obviously) but his/her big law chances would be significantly greater. After a certain debt threshold, getting a big law job becomes basically a neccesity and I would probably be willing to pay more just to greatly increase the odds of snagging that job. If I had a gun to my head and I was faced with Vandy w/80K or UVA/Duke at sticker, I would probably chose whichever was cheaper between Duke and UVA.

Anyway, I suspect that these aren't real options given that it is not even January yet. My scholarship offer last cycle at Vandy was exactly the same as my offer at Cornell and I got Duke to match, so Duke and Vandy were very close in price when it came time for me to choice. At similar prices, Duke is a no brainer over Vandy, I suspect even if you want to work big law in Nashville.


All of this.

BigZuck
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:45 pm

TI and I are twinsies.


ThetaX wrote:So Vandy is only justifiable with a full-ride? Does that make sense? But regardless, I was working under the assumption that this was a real scenario and OP had no other scholarships in play.


I think Vandy is worth about 100K total (meaning debt and/or paying out of pocket). However you've gotta accomplish that, that's really all I would be willing to pay.

Ti Malice
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:47 pm

ThetaX wrote:So Vandy is only justifiable with a full-ride? Does that make sense?


Vandy is justifiable with a COA that leaves you with not much more than $100K of debt at repayment.

Edit: BigZuck beat me to it, of course.

arklaw13
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby arklaw13 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:47 pm

BigZuck wrote:TI and I are twinsies.


ThetaX wrote:So Vandy is only justifiable with a full-ride? Does that make sense? But regardless, I was working under the assumption that this was a real scenario and OP had no other scholarships in play.


I think Vandy is worth about 100K total (meaning debt and/or paying out of pocket). However you've gotta accomplish that, that's really all I would be willing to pay.


I'd probably agree. I wouldn't have paid more than 100k.

Re:partnership, it has nothing to with where you went to school. All that matters is whether you have the potential to be a rainmaker, which you have no way of knowing at this point.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Tiago Splitter » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:50 pm

ThetaX wrote:So Vandy is only justifiable with a full-ride? Does that make sense? But regardless, I was working under the assumption that this was a real scenario and OP had no other scholarships in play.

How do you go from "80k isn't enough" to "Vandy is only justifiable with a full ride?" Vanderbilt's tuition will likely exceed 150k for the three years OP attends.

BigZuck
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:51 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
ThetaX wrote:So Vandy is only justifiable with a full-ride? Does that make sense?


Vandy is justifiable with a COA that leaves you with not much more than $100K of debt at repayment.

Edit: BigZuck beat me to it, of course.


GET OUT OF MY HIVEMIND!!!

I suspect the elitism charge is forthcoming so I will say that I go to UT which is basically a carbon copy of Vandy in terms of placement. It's a good school and can certainly be worth attending but you have to be cost-conscious and realistic about what types of job outcomes are available and most likely.

TI goes to Yale so he probably is just a dirty elitist :)

Ti Malice
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:01 pm

BigZuck wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:
ThetaX wrote:So Vandy is only justifiable with a full-ride? Does that make sense?


Vandy is justifiable with a COA that leaves you with not much more than $100K of debt at repayment.

Edit: BigZuck beat me to it, of course.


GET OUT OF MY HIVEMIND!!!

I suspect the elitism charge is forthcoming so I will say that I go to UT which is basically a carbon copy of Vandy in terms of placement. It's a good school and can certainly be worth attending but you have to be cost-conscious and realistic about what types of job outcomes are available and most likely.

TI goes to Yale so he probably is just a dirty elitist :)


:lol:

I'm still just a "jobist"...I promise.

tlsforumid
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby tlsforumid » Tue Dec 31, 2013 7:54 pm

Yeah it's a hypo. I never said it wasn't. But from what I have read its a realistic one. Stats are 3.3/172. I grew up in atlanta and went to undergrad in nashville for two years. This brings me to another question. Why are ties to regions so important?

BigZuck
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:00 pm

tlsforumid wrote:Yeah it's a hypo. I never said it wasn't. But from what I have read its a realistic one. Stats are 3.3/172. I grew up in atlanta and went to undergrad in nashville for two years. This brings me to another question. Why are ties to regions so important?


Shows that you want to be there and won't bolt after they have trained you so their investment has a higher likelihood to pay off.

It's probably also an easy way to differentiate between otherwise identical candidates.

BigZuck
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:02 pm

Hypos are pointless cuz this viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206299

And cuz it's early and things will probably change. It's not even January yet, we are nowhere close to decision time or the end of the cycle.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby rickgrimes69 » Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:32 pm

Ti Malice wrote:
BigZuck wrote:This is a hypo, isn't it? Be honest.

I'm not on board with Theta for the most part. 80K isn't all that much of a scholarship if you have to take out loans for COL. The OP would still probably be close to 150ishK in debt, and then would be faced with pretty decent big law prospects but absolutely needing big law to pay it off. At Duke/UVA the OP would be more in the hole (obviously) but his/her big law chances would be significantly greater. After a certain debt threshold, getting a big law job becomes basically a neccesity and I would probably be willing to pay more just to greatly increase the odds of snagging that job. If I had a gun to my head and I was faced with Vandy w/80K or UVA/Duke at sticker, I would probably chose whichever was cheaper between Duke and UVA.

Anyway, I suspect that these aren't real options given that it is not even January yet. My scholarship offer last cycle at Vandy was exactly the same as my offer at Cornell and I got Duke to match, so Duke and Vandy were very close in price when it came time for me to choice. At similar prices, Duke is a no brainer over Vandy, I suspect even if you want to work big law in Nashville.


All of this.

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shifty_eyed
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby shifty_eyed » Wed Jan 01, 2014 12:27 am

I had nearly identical numbers and was WL UVA, sticker at duke off priority reserve, and got 80k at Vandy, so this may be a spot on result. I don't know what I would have chosen if these were my only options. Prob Vandy

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Crowing
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Re: Should I take Virginia or Duke at sticker over Vandy scholly

Postby Crowing » Wed Jan 01, 2014 5:30 pm

This might be a hypo but it's fairly realistic based on splitter results from last cycle. I don't really have anything to add beyond that; it's a tough call. You might try to negotiate with Duke/UVA if you indeed end up with sticker, but idk how much they'd care about a Vandy offer.




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