is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:06 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
hmd0224 wrote:I am from Colorado so though it might be less sunny, I think I can handle the cold.

And being a go-getter from the midwest situates you better than some.

I know this is all SOMEONE ON THE INTERNET IS WRONG of me, but Colorado is NOT in the midwest.

The Twin Cities are much much colder than Colorado (unless maybe you're way up in the mountains in Colorado), but they are a lot of fun and a good place to be. Can't comment on the law school. Good luck with your decisions and plans!

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UVAIce
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby UVAIce » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:09 pm

I can throw some first hand information in here - I summered at a medium sized law firm in the Twin Cities (~200 attorneys) and out of a class of 7 (4 2Ls and 3 1Ls) there was a total of 1 U of M student there.
Last edited by UVAIce on Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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minnbills
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby minnbills » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:10 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Ouch - it seems like your perspective has worsened/hardened over the past year. Care to elaborate?


My perspective has gotten worse. I think the fundamental problem is that the twin cities has a small legal market. The U makes things worse by not looking out for its students though. The constant tuition increases, the changes to the honors system, the large class sizes, etc.

It is still a buyer's market when it comes to employment. Moreover, MN firms operate on a low-cost model, so they simply don't hire as many people to begin with compared to their "peers" in Chicago, New York, and elsewhere.

If you're the "right" candidate- IE you have a science background or can bring some kind of recognized diversity to an employer, UMN is a great place to go, but if you don't fall into one of those categories my honest advice is to stay away. If you are not in the top 25% the odds are stacked against you. Even if you are in the top 25%, I know a bunch of those people who struck out at OCI anyways- more than who got jobs.

I'm in the middle of the class, have approximately a half-tuition scholarship, I live in a low-cost place, and I'm a native Minnesotan. Basically, I am the typical, average law student here. I haven't been able to get anyone to give me the time of day yet. Lawyers are more than happy to network or whatever, and they are all looking to help, but when push comes to shove nothing ever seems to work out.

Moreover, the school tries to game the UNSWR rankings by admitting huge numbers of transfer students who a) crowd the market even further and b) hurt your class rank because they escape the 1st year low curve, and are only graded on the 2nd and 3rd year inflated curve.

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kd5
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby kd5 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 9:01 pm

The point about the flood of transfers is credited.
UVAIce wrote:I can throw some first hand information in here - I summered at a medium sized law firm in the Twin Cities (~200 attorneys) and out of a class of 7 (4 2Ls and 3 1Ls) there was a total of 1 U of M student there.
I summered at a similarly sized firm that took 10 total summers. Four of the ten were UMN students.

If you're top 25-30% and make a journal you have a decent shot at local BigLaw. I know Dorsey took a ton of kids from the U in their summer class. I know several who summered in NY and a few who did Chicago too.

If you fall below the top bunch (or strike out at OCI), then without diversity or science to help out, things look bleaker. I have friends who took jobs at tiny, small, and medium local firms, but at that size firms can't predict hiring needs very far ahead of time, so many of those friends didn't get their jobs until summer.

Plenty of clerkships to go around too, especially if you don't mind state court. State court hiring rolls all year.

Government/PI hiring sucks right now, obviously. Some students still get that kind of job after graduation, but not very many.

If you really want to be in MN and can't get t14, UMN is the right choice. If you're getting a full ride (or close) UMN might be the right choice if you don't mind staying in/near MN. If you only have an okay scholarship and/or aren't sure you want to practice in MN, you might end up really regretting choosing UMN by your third year.

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Nova
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby Nova » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:44 pm

harsh review, Minnbills.

The most recent job stats are good for a regional. A third of the class wont become full time attorneys. It is what it is .

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minnbills
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby minnbills » Wed Jan 08, 2014 10:46 pm

Yeah one bright spot are state clerkships, especially if you are willing to leave the twin cities. MN is a big state with a lot of courts. MN is packed full of small and midsize firms, and they love clerks.

Jchance
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby Jchance » Sun Jan 26, 2014 11:06 pm

.
Last edited by Jchance on Thu Sep 17, 2015 4:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Nova
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby Nova » Mon Jan 27, 2014 4:19 am

Jchance wrote:In term of networking for a job, people in MN do NOT network. Therefore, if you hustle, you have a better shot at getting a job.

huh?

omzster67
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby omzster67 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:30 pm

From an aesthetics standpoint, the law school building is ugly and is on the wrong part of campus.

As for people in MN not networking, that's complete BS. It's not New York style networking but it is certainly there. People in Minnesota just have a tough time getting over whether constant networking becomes an annoyance to others.

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minnbills
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby minnbills » Mon Jan 27, 2014 12:39 pm

Nova wrote:
Jchance wrote:In term of networking for a job, people in MN do NOT network. Therefore, if you hustle, you have a better shot at getting a job.

huh?


I think there are quite a few people who do little to no networking.

omzster67
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Re: is University Of Minnessota law that depressing?

Postby omzster67 » Mon Jan 27, 2014 1:11 pm

minnbills wrote:
Nova wrote:
Jchance wrote:In term of networking for a job, people in MN do NOT network. Therefore, if you hustle, you have a better shot at getting a job.

huh?


I think there are quite a few people who do little to no networking.


Well if that is truly the case then that bodes well for those who do network.




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