Early... But curious...

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The Dark Kite
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Early... But curious...

Postby The Dark Kite » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:05 am

Hey, so I'm still waiting to hear back from the majority of law schools I've applied to.. but I was wondering:

WASHU at sticker or Fordham with a $15k/year scholly?

I live in NYC currently and I would like to go into big law doing corporate transactional (or anything, really) work.

muskies970
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby muskies970 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 10:45 am

The Dark Kite wrote:Hey, so I'm still waiting to hear back from the majority of law schools I've applied to.. but I was wondering:

WASHU at sticker or Fordham with a $15k/year scholly?

I live in NYC currently and I would like to go into big law doing corporate transactional (or anything, really) work.


In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT


I'm assuming the Cost of Attendance's will be around the same for both school's given Fordham's scholly.
Fordham places about 25% into biglaw
WashU a little under 20%

Assuming you have friends/connections in NY, you're fine with taking out loans, and are aware you only have about a 1 in 4 chance, I'd say go with Fordham given the options.

BigZuck
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby BigZuck » Mon Dec 23, 2013 11:11 am

Neither. Both are too expensive and big law chances too remote. Not worth it.

Is it possible to go to WUSTL at sticker though? Don't they just give everyone a free ride?

timbs4339
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:16 pm

I wouldn't take on more than 100K of debt for those odds of biglaw. I think you have some negotiatin' to do.

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Nova
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Nova » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:18 pm

Both offers are rip offs

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jingosaur
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby jingosaur » Mon Dec 23, 2013 12:52 pm

How many retakes do you have left?

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Fiero85
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:01 pm

timbs4339 wrote:I wouldn't take on more than 100K of debt for those odds of biglaw. I think you have some negotiatin' to do.


Even as a future WUSTL student, I agree that these schools at those prices (for your proposed career goals) are a bad idea. Hopefully your school/scholarship prospects improve as the cycle continues, and you'll come back to us with better options. Good luck!

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby ManoftheHour » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:10 pm

Retake for a 167-169 and go to WUSTL for free.

californiauser
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby californiauser » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:12 pm

WashU at sticker is absolutely insane. So is Fordham for that price.

Are your parents financing your law school costs?

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kwais
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby kwais » Mon Dec 23, 2013 1:19 pm

I just looked up WASHU's cost and placement in NY. 254k and essentially non-existent. Cross it off your list.

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The Dark Kite
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby The Dark Kite » Mon Dec 23, 2013 4:47 pm

kwais wrote:I just looked up WASHU's cost and placement in NY. 254k and essentially non-existent. Cross it off your list.

That's fair enough! I keep thinking of law school as undergrad sometimes... I'm from NYC, went to MA for school because I wanted to kind of take a break from the city.. but clearly that's not a luxury you can take advantage of in this game.. and I'll have to be market aware.
californiauser wrote:WashU at sticker is absolutely insane. So is Fordham for that price.

Are your parents financing your law school costs?

Yes.
Fiero85 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:I wouldn't take on more than 100K of debt for those odds of biglaw. I think you have some negotiatin' to do.


Even as a future WUSTL student, I agree that these schools at those prices (for your proposed career goals) are a bad idea. Hopefully your school/scholarship prospects improve as the cycle continues, and you'll come back to us with better options. Good luck!

Thanks! I really appreciate it. I'm still crossing my fingers for some better prospects or, yeah... some negotiating tools.

Thanks for all the feedback, guys.. I'm probably gonna end up taking WASHU off ultimately. But again, I recognize it's early. So I'll follow up in like.. February? Lol.

BigZuck
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby BigZuck » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:05 pm

Parents paying for law school is a sweet deal. You won't have to worry about debt. Still, retake if you want a respectable shot at big law.

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Fiero85
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Fiero85 » Mon Dec 23, 2013 5:48 pm

Depending on how your parents are going about paying for law school (if that is the case) the costs would be slightly reduced because the interest builid up on loans would not be relevant. Still, Wash U at sticker and Fordham at small discount are in the 190-210k range without interest, which IMO is too much for a 1/4 shot at your preferred career and location.

As stated previously, your cycle is not over, so hopefully some better prospects arise through higher acceptances or scholarship negotiation. And of course, don't be shy with your remaining retakes. It could make your career.

Best of luck!

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midwest17
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby midwest17 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:01 pm

BigZuck wrote:Parents paying for law school is a sweet deal. You won't have to worry about debt. Still, retake if you want a respectable shot at big law.


I don't think this is quite the right attitude. Unless your parents are so filthy rich that the cost of tuition is negligible to them, you should still take COA into account. What they spend on your tuition is money that will be unavailable to you down the line (as support after law school if you can't find a job, inheritance, nice gifts, etc...)

Obviously, if your parents are paying, you can worry less about debt. But you should still try to minimize the cost while still having good employment changes. (And, of course, that means retaking.)

timbs4339
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:03 pm

midwest17 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Parents paying for law school is a sweet deal. You won't have to worry about debt. Still, retake if you want a respectable shot at big law.


I don't think this is quite the right attitude. Unless your parents are so filthy rich that the cost of tuition is negligible to them, you should still take COA into account. What they spend on your tuition is money that will be unavailable to you down the line (as support after law school if you can't find a job, inheritance, nice gifts, etc...)

Obviously, if your parents are paying, you can worry less about debt. But you should still try to minimize the cost while still having good employment changes. (And, of course, that means retaking.)


Yes, if your parents are "burn the money in a pile and laugh and dance in the flames rich" go for it. If not, that's money they might need down the line.

BigZuck
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby BigZuck » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:32 pm

midwest17 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Parents paying for law school is a sweet deal. You won't have to worry about debt. Still, retake if you want a respectable shot at big law.


I don't think this is quite the right attitude. Unless your parents are so filthy rich that the cost of tuition is negligible to them, you should still take COA into account. What they spend on your tuition is money that will be unavailable to you down the line (as support after law school if you can't find a job, inheritance, nice gifts, etc...)

Obviously, if your parents are paying, you can worry less about debt. But you should still try to minimize the cost while still having good employment changes. (And, of course, that means retaking.)


I agree. I've said all of that a billion times. And it seems like every time there is push back. "My parents won't let me use the money for another purpose." "I'll never see a cent of it if they don't spend it all on a legal education." Etc., etc. Intuitively it makes sense to save as much money as possible rather than spend it on law school because that money can be put to other purposes. But rich kids don't think that way, and they insist that I'm wrong. So I've given up.

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unodostres
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby unodostres » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:44 pm

Man, I feel bad for your parents.

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Clearly
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Clearly » Sat Jan 04, 2014 5:51 pm

What was your lsat?

Jcosma
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Jcosma » Sat Jan 04, 2014 6:02 pm

Even if you're parents are paying I would not go to either for the simple reason that you will not, in all likelihood get the job you want.

Cellar-door
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Cellar-door » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:41 pm

I go to WUSTL, I would say that placement isn't non-existant in NY (about 7%) but low because a lot of people aren't looking to go to NYC, most people targeting big-law seem to want other markets) however if the cost is the same and you know you want NYC then go to Fordham. That is of course only if you are going to ignore all the advice above about not going to either at this cost.
Re-take, apply to a few more peer schools and negotiate that Scholly up.

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sublime
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby sublime » Sun Jan 05, 2014 3:57 pm

..

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2014
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby 2014 » Sun Jan 05, 2014 4:51 pm

The class of people who WashU is worth sticker to is very very very limited and I'm 100% certain it doesn't include you, PLEASE don't go for that. They will almost certainly come forward and give you money later on, but if they don't you would be committing a heinous financial crime to go for that.

That scholarship at Fordham is marginally more defensible, especially for someone who already lives in NYC and wants to stay there, but you should really hold out for more.

BigZuck
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:22 pm

sublime wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Neither. Both are too expensive and big law chances too remote. Not worth it.

Is it possible to go to WUSTL at sticker though? Don't they just give everyone a free ride?



:lol: Don't be jelly

Seriously though, I feel bad for the people in my classes that I know are paying sticker or close to it.


:)

Of course I was joking, but I am kind of surprised that some people do pay close to sticker. Reverse splitters I guess?

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Nova
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Nova » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:26 pm

UMN gets all internationals below the LSAT median to pay sticker. Obvious gaming since their GPAs don't count.

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Nova
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Re: Early... But curious...

Postby Nova » Sun Jan 05, 2014 5:36 pm

Last spring, some oblivious administrative assistant sent out invitations to a dinner for everyone who got a scholarship. They CCed everyone who got a scholarship. So, If anyone cared, they could figure out who was paying sticker.




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