Howard law v. Loyola University Chicago Forum

[redcrosse]

Hey guys Loyola is ranked higher but not attractive for big law whereas I hear that Howard is. Which school would you choose? why? Better big law opportunities in Chicago or dc?

Do the HUSL.

[20141023]

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[Strongfaithgirl]

T14 is NOT the end all be all

True, but you implied you wanted Big Law. Getting Big Law is VASTLY more difficult outside of the T14, particularly that far outside of it. If we were talking about a Vanderbilt or a Texas or an Emory, that might be okay at the right price. Loyola or Howard? No.

You either need to A) accept that you won't get Big Law from either of these schools, and revise your goals. or B) Retake the LSAT.

Medium level firm

[Strongfaithgirl]

THANKS!

[TheSpanishMain]

T14 is NOT the end all be all

True, but you implied you wanted Big Law. Getting Big Law is VASTLY more difficult outside of the T14, particularly that far outside of it. If we were talking about a Vanderbilt or a Texas or an Emory, that might be okay at the right price. Loyola or Howard? No.

You either need to A) accept that you won't get Big Law from either of these schools, and revise your goals. or B) Retake the LSAT.

As a double minority the statistics that you all have referenced does not apply

I don't think the URM thing works the way you think it does, but you seem like you've got it worked out, so...good luck.

[BullShitWithBravado]

T14 is NOT the end all be all

True, but you implied you wanted Big Law. Getting Big Law is VASTLY more difficult outside of the T14, particularly that far outside of it. If we were talking about a Vanderbilt or a Texas or an Emory, that might be okay at the right price. Loyola or Howard? No.

You either need to A) accept that you won't get Big Law from either of these schools, and revise your goals. or B) Retake the LSAT.

As a double minority the statistics that you all have referenced does not apply

While being a URM may give you a slight bump when it comes to legal employment, it won't come close to guaranteeing you a job coming out of law school. I personally know URMs, including AA URMs, graduating from higher ranked schools who are jobless right now.

URMs get the biggest bump when getting into law school. If you're a double-URM, that's even more of a reason to retake because there's a good chance that you won't have to improve your numbers by that much to get into a better school. Try not to get offended when people tell you to retake and aim for the T-14…the advice is meant to be encouraging, not mocking.

[sparty99]

Actually, the T14 is the end all. And I go to a school that is Top 40. Retake.

[Typhoon24]

Howard, if you're looking at the academic hip-hop jurisprudence route.

Also great avatar, she and her wide-chinned predecessor haunted my LSAT dreams.

[Nova]

As a double minority the statistics that you all have referenced does not apply

[nebula666]

don't go to law school this uninformed

[jingosaur]

As a double minority the statistics that you all have referenced does not apply

I thought this:

Kind of similar to special snowflake.

[Aberzombie1892]

Neither for free. That applies to everyone, including green transsexual female Martians from an impoverished country on planet Saturn that are first time college graduates that experienced extraordinary discrimination during their lifetime (no offense to any of these groups - I'm just being sure that I cover everything). Don't go to those two places.

[PepperJack]

Hmmm, I don't really know anything about either of those schools....Howard is on this list if it makes you feel any better.

http://abovethelaw.com/2011/03/law-scho ... the-cheap/

Did you get scholarships to either? Since job prospects are going to be pretty tough at either, it's a good idea to improve enough so that you graduate with no, or very little debt.

I wonder how placement is for students at Howard who are not AA. Does anybody have any statistics on this?

No clue. I know two practicing attorneys who went to Howard, but they're both AA women.

I met an attorney at Skadden who was also an AA woman from Howard. She was very beautiful and personable, however, and my guess is she graded onto law review even though that never came up. My understanding is that Howard is only valuable if one is an AA hire, because you interview with firms specifically coming there over much higher ranked schools just to consider AA hires. There is definitely a major boost in hiring for AA's, but you need to consider that for the vast majority of AA's at sub-tier 1 law schools, law school does not produce a net positive outcome. The boost only happens if you're valuable to them for more than just being black. The AA is just a bonus, not going to make a median TTT grad employed.

[PepperJack]

T14 is NOT the end all be all

True, but you implied you wanted Big Law. Getting Big Law is VASTLY more difficult outside of the T14, particularly that far outside of it. If we were talking about a Vanderbilt or a Texas or an Emory, that might be okay at the right price. Loyola or Howard? No.

You either need to A) accept that you won't get Big Law from either of these schools, and revise your goals. or B) Retake the LSAT.

As a double minority the statistics that you all have referenced does not apply

While being a URM may give you a slight bump when it comes to legal employment, it won't come close to guaranteeing you a job coming out of law school. I personally know URMs, including AA URMs, graduating from higher ranked schools who are jobless right now.

URMs get the biggest bump when getting into law school. If you're a double-URM, that's even more of a reason to retake because there's a good chance that you won't have to improve your numbers by that much to get into a better school. Try not to get offended when people tell you to retake and aim for the T-14…the advice is meant to be encouraging, not mocking.

Once in a t-14 that's not necessarily true, but that's another topic. If OP went to a t-14, she'd likely be set if she's not as insufferable as she comes across ITT. AA's consistently get hired from the bottom of the class at most t-14's. However, yes, once outside a certain range of schools they are as f'd as their white peers.

[PDaddy]

Howard, if you're looking at the academic hip-hop jurisprudence route.

TITCR by a mile! Lol.

The retake advice is also credited, because it's still an uphill climb regardless.

Seriously, if you absolutely have to pick one, pick Howard. Howard's tuition is much cheaper (what...$24K?). Do you have cheap housing prospects in D.C.?.

But I wouldn't go to any school outside of the T14 right now, and I wouldn't even go to GULC.

[jrd93]

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[Ally Mcbeal]

I currently go to Howard for Undergrad and actually, a large number of our law and graduate students are not AA. Before we start making hip hop jokes or assumptions on employment statistics

[sublime]

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[sublime]

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[sparty99]

Actually, the T14 is the end all. And I go to a school that is Top 40. Retake.

This is just silly though. There are a wide range of career goals, personal circumstances, and COA's that can (and often will) make attending outside of the T14 at a discount a good decision.

Good luck with your "wide range of career goals," as there isn't a "wide range of legal job openings."

[sublime]

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[TheSpanishMain]

Actually, the T14 is the end all. And I go to a school that is Top 40. Retake.

This is just silly though. There are a wide range of career goals, personal circumstances, and COA's that can (and often will) make attending outside of the T14 at a discount a good decision.

Good luck with your "wide range of career goals," as there isn't a "wide range of legal job openings."

C'mon with the hyperbole. So going to Vanderbilt, Texas, Emory, WUSTL, or UCLA for free is a horrible idea?

[sparty99]

I never said going to a top 25 school for FREE is a bad decision. In fact, if you read my posts in other forms, I have consistently said that law school is only worth it if its a Top 14 or a full or near scholarship at a Top 50. However, I still contend that the T14 is kind of the be all...The doors that Harvard/Stanford open are just not the same as Texas or UCLA. Whether its inside or outside of law.

[sublime]

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[sparty99]

I never said going to a top 25 school for FREE is a bad decision. In fact, if you read my posts in other forms, I have consistently said that law school is only worth it if its a Top 14 or a full or near scholarship at a Top 50. However, I still contend that the T14 is kind of the be all...The doors that Harvard/Stanford open are just not the same as Texas or UCLA. Whether its inside or outside of law.

.... that isn't what "end all, be all" means....

This really isn't important. What is important is that the OP should not attend Howard or Loyola. Additionally, she should not ignore the fact that a legal degree at a T14 is actually really critical if she wants to have a decent shot at getting big law, which is what she wants. Howard and Loyola have quasi-shitty legal opportunities and so you should not go.