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University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:04 pm
by SnazzleFrazzle89
Long time lurker, first time poster.

I will be applying next cycle and, in looking at regional schools as my "safety" schools, I just can't understand how The University of Alabama is ranked #21.

If any southern regional school should be ranked that highly, it should be UGA if only for the fact that it's the best non T14 feeder into Atlanta. I know enough about the legal community in this city to know that you will be VERY hard pressed to get into ATL Big Law from Alabama.

Understand that I'm knocking the ranking, not the school. I just can't see how a law school whose strongest placement is Alabama can be this highly ranked.

Anyone care to explain?

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:16 pm
by helix23
The USN methodology doesn't rely solely on ATL big law for its rankings?

Here ya go bro: USN methodology

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 4:20 pm
by Winston1984
What is worth noting, is how low Alabama's peer assessment score is. There was a good ATL article yesterday about which schools are underrated or overrated by US News. Alabama is so strong because of strong placement (check out LST) and high medians (especially gpa).

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:44 pm
by BigZuck
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster.

I will be applying next cycle and, in looking at regional schools as my "safety" schools, I just can't understand how The University of Alabama is ranked #21.

If any southern regional school should be ranked that highly, it should be UGA if only for the fact that it's the best non T14 feeder into Atlanta. I know enough about the legal community in this city to know that you will be VERY hard pressed to get into ATL Big Law from Alabama.

Understand that I'm knocking the ranking, not the school. I just can't see how a law school whose strongest placement is Alabama can be this highly ranked.

Anyone care to explain?


Not everyone cares about Atlanta as much as you?

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:58 pm
by timbs4339
I bet Yale only places two, maybe four percent of its class in ATL Biglaw. Always knew it was severely overrated.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:59 pm
by Nova
who cares? USNWR is a joke

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:08 pm
by Mick Haller
LST the only rankings worth anything

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:16 pm
by jingosaur
There are a lot of public flagships that are ranked very high and many of them are getting stronger because of the lower COA and strong local job placement. A lot of people go to these schools solely because they're ranked pretty high and don't really think about job placement and only think about rankings. UMinn and IU-B are in the same boat as Alabama.

Also +1 to LST being what you should use.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:20 pm
by BigZuck
jingosaur wrote:There are a lot of public flagships that are ranked very high and many of them are getting stronger because of the lower COA and strong local job placement. A lot of people go to these schools solely because they're ranked pretty high and don't really think about job placement and only think about rankings. UMinn and IU-B are in the same boat as Alabama.

Also +1 to LST being what you should use.


I think Alabama is kind of a safe haven for reverse splitters infatuated with the prestige of the USNWR rankings.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:00 am
by KatyMarie
I'm kind of interested too OP... Their rankings jumped from 38 to 21 in 4 years. I don't know enough about the rankings to know if that means that they're unstable, or if I can assume that they're on the way up. UGA is lower ranked (33), but places well in Atlanta. It's possible that these rankings mean jack shit and I should just be looking at LST, but I don't know.

With UGA and Alabama both on my list, both with good scholarships, I don't know which would would put me in better shape.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:01 am
by Nova
KatyMarie wrote:I'm kind of interested too OP... Their rankings jumped from 38 to 21 in 4 years. I don't know enough about the rankings to know if that means that they're unstable, or if I can assume that they're on the way up. UGA is lower ranked (33), but places well in Atlanta. It's possible that these rankings mean jack shit and I should just be looking at LST, but I don't know.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 11:02 am
by jingosaur
KatyMarie wrote: It's possible thatthese rankings mean jack shit and I should just be looking at LST, but I don't know.

With UGA and Alabama both on my list, both with good scholarships, I don't know which would would put me in better shape.


Fixed that for you.

If you want to work in Atlanta, UGA is the better choice. If you want to work in Alabama or one of the states bordering Alabama, 'bama is the better choice.

/scooped, but that should help

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:32 pm
by BigZuck
What's all this about "UGA places well in Atlanta" nonsense? We're not talking about big law, are we?

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:36 pm
by Lord Randolph McDuff
BigZuck wrote:
jingosaur wrote:There are a lot of public flagships that are ranked very high and many of them are getting stronger because of the lower COA and strong local job placement. A lot of people go to these schools solely because they're ranked pretty high and don't really think about job placement and only think about rankings. UMinn and IU-B are in the same boat as Alabama.

Also +1 to LST being what you should use.


I think Alabama is kind of a safe haven for reverse splitters infatuated with the prestige of the USNWR rankings.


They are Minn, only they whore GPA instead of LSAT.

Another example of a perfect trap school. People will go cuz they told their dad it was T21 and it must place really well in the south. Truth is, the local state schools IN EVERY surrounding state are 5x better for working in each surrounding state. This means Alabama is really only the school you want to go to if you want to work in the state of Alabama. If you don't know where you wanna work but it's generally "the south," you should figure that out before you go to law school.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:43 pm
by KatyMarie
BigZuck wrote:What's all this about "UGA places well in Atlanta" nonsense? We're not talking about big law, are we?


Does pretty well with A&B and King and Spalding.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 1:12 pm
by wsparker
The problem with LST (in this case) is that Mercer has the highest score in GA, but Mercer places most people (that get jobs) in small firms in small towns, not Atlanta. So yes, use LST scores, but make sure to look further into the score. Not saying anyone was suggesting to just look at the score, just wanted point out that.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:46 pm
by SnazzleFrazzle89
BigZuck wrote:What's all this about "UGA places well in Atlanta" nonsense? We're not talking about big law, are we?


Our alumni base is rabidly protective of its own, especially if you're a Double Dawg (UGA undergrad, UGA Law). All of the big firms in Atlanta are stacked with partners who went to UGA Law.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:09 pm
by BigZuck
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:What's all this about "UGA places well in Atlanta" nonsense? We're not talking about big law, are we?


Our alumni base is rabidly protective of its own, especially if you're a Double Dawg (UGA undergrad, UGA Law). All of the big firms in Atlanta are stacked with partners who went to UGA Law.


I don't see what firms being stacked with a bunch of boomers from a certain school has to do with that school's placement now.

UGA doesn't place "well" into anything. They place, sure. But not "well."

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:15 pm
by lawhopeful10
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:What's all this about "UGA places well in Atlanta" nonsense? We're not talking about big law, are we?


Our alumni base is rabidly protective of its own, especially if you're a Double Dawg (UGA undergrad, UGA Law). All of the big firms in Atlanta are stacked with partners who went to UGA Law.

Lol I go to UGA and you need like top 15% to be competitive for Atlanta big law and even that is no guarantee. I would hardly call that placing well.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Thu Dec 19, 2013 6:40 pm
by FinanceStudent28
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster.

I will be applying next cycle and, in looking at regional schools as my "safety" schools, I just can't understand how The University of Alabama is ranked #21.

If any southern regional school should be ranked that highly, it should be UGA if only for the fact that it's the best non T14 feeder into Atlanta. I know enough about the legal community in this city to know that you will be VERY hard pressed to get into ATL Big Law from Alabama.

Understand that I'm knocking the ranking, not the school. I just can't see how a law school whose strongest placement is Alabama can be this highly ranked.

Anyone care to explain?


What's best for Atlanta Big Law?

Emory or UGA?

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 10:33 am
by gregfootball2001
FinanceStudent28 wrote:
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:Long time lurker, first time poster.

I will be applying next cycle and, in looking at regional schools as my "safety" schools, I just can't understand how The University of Alabama is ranked #21.

If any southern regional school should be ranked that highly, it should be UGA if only for the fact that it's the best non T14 feeder into Atlanta. I know enough about the legal community in this city to know that you will be VERY hard pressed to get into ATL Big Law from Alabama.

Understand that I'm knocking the ranking, not the school. I just can't see how a law school whose strongest placement is Alabama can be this highly ranked.

Anyone care to explain?


What's best for Atlanta Big Law?

Emory or UGA?

Depends on how you define "best."

Emory has better placement overall. It places 29% of its class in law firms of 100+ lawyers and federal clerkships (which is what we'll call "big law" - your definition may vary). A good number of these positions are outside Georgia, but a good number of the class will stay in-state. (http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... =employers)

Georgia is at a hair over 24% for 100+ lawyers and fed clerkships. Almost everyone will stay in Georgia. (http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... =employers)

So, looking at the pure numbers, Emory is 5% better.

However, there's one thing to keep in mind. According to LST, the non-discounted cost of Emory is $259,887. (http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=emory)

For Georgia, it's $126,671 for in-state students. (http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=georgia)

Now, not every student that goes to Georgia is in-state, of course - but UGA gives out a one year "equalizer" scholarship to many, if not most, of the out-of-state students. After the one year, you can pretty easily become a resident.

But don't forget that Emory gives out quite a few scholarships. So that difference of about 133k could easily become less, depending on your situation. Add in the fact that it's usually more expensive to live around Atlanta than Athens, however, and I wouldn't be surprised if the average difference ran about 100k.

Is that worth an extra 5% of placement? I don't know. So while the pure, numbers driven answer to your post is that Emory is better at getting kids jobs, it comes with quite a hefty price tag. Which is "better?" Depends on your risk-adverseness vs your debt-adverseness, I suppose.

tl;dr: Retake, go to Harvard.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:23 pm
by KatyMarie
BigZuck wrote:
SnazzleFrazzle89 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:What's all this about "UGA places well in Atlanta" nonsense? We're not talking about big law, are we?


Our alumni base is rabidly protective of its own, especially if you're a Double Dawg (UGA undergrad, UGA Law). All of the big firms in Atlanta are stacked with partners who went to UGA Law.


I don't see what firms being stacked with a bunch of boomers from a certain school has to do with that school's placement now.

UGA doesn't place "well" into anything. They place, sure. But not "well."


It depends on what you consider "placing well" I guess. Compared to what? T-14? Well yeah, UGA can't compete in how well they place in BigLaw. But for Atlanta, it isn't a bad option depending on your goals and your numbers. If my heart was 100% set on BigLaw in Atlanta, yes, I'd personally bite the bullet and pay for a much higher ranked school (like UVA or Duke) instead of taking the much cheaper route at UGA (or Alabama). But if you're more flexible with your goals and want/need to save yourself from that kind of student loan debt, UGA or Alabama could be a better option.

At least that's my experience from working support in ATL BigLaw....but of course all the attorneys are trying to convince me that whatever school they went to was the best school for anything I'd want to do. haha

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:24 pm
by KatyMarie
gregfootball2001 wrote: tl;dr: Retake, go to Harvard.


Lol!! I feel like no matter what question I ask on here, at least half the responses are some variation of that...

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 12:44 pm
by jingosaur
KatyMarie wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote: tl;dr: Retake, go to Harvard.


Lol!! I feel like no matter what question I ask on here, at least half the responses are some variation of that...


TBF, after getting that advice from someone on TLS, I retook and got into Harvard. I'm pretty happy about taking the advice.

Re: University of Alabama at #21...someone explain...

Posted: Fri Dec 20, 2013 1:06 pm
by Dr. Review
jingosaur wrote:
KatyMarie wrote:
gregfootball2001 wrote: tl;dr: Retake, go to Harvard.


Lol!! I feel like no matter what question I ask on here, at least half the responses are some variation of that...


TBF, after getting that advice from someone on TLS, I retook and got into Harvard. I'm pretty happy about taking the advice.

Since you were eliminated from my team, and I stay the hell out of the waiters threads, I missed this. Congrats, Jingo! That's badass.