University of Minnesota - thoughts? Forum

[NotHermione]

What is the general impression of The University of Minnesota?

As a bit of background, I'm from the midwest and would be more than happy to end up in the twin cities. I'm drawn to the way Minnesota structures their curriculum and have a good number of connections in Minneapolis, Chicago & Des Moines. Based on my scores, I could see myself getting good money from U of MN, but would be looking at sticker for low T14s (if I were to be admitted). My goal is to do corporate in-house counsel and, given the cost of living/salaries in the markets I'm considering, I'm not comfortable taking on $300,000 worth of debt for a coveted T14 spot.

Any thoughts or experiences would be greatly appreciated.

NOTE: "Just retake the LSAT" is not a response I'm looking for. I want legitimate perceptions of the school, education & job prospects. I'm already considering a retake in June but am attempting to weigh all the possibilities first.

[Cellar-door]

Not a UMN student, but I can tell you what I heard when I was looking:
Solid School but doesn't travel at all.
Basically locking yourself in to MN.
Not sure the path to in-house from UMN, but I'd guess you'd have to be in the 17% or so who get big firm or Fed Clerkships and then move from a firm to in-house after a few years.

You say you have connections in MN, IA, and Chicago? Where do you want to work? Anywhere other than MN I think you have better options if you think you have T14 numbers. Northwestern obviously, WUSTL, maybe a few more, plus most T14 degrees travel well even if they don't have a large portion of their class trying to go to the midwest.

[jbagelboy]

UMN doesn't have a large OCI, so if you want a big new york or LA firm it's a bad call, but minneapolis has a traditionally strong economy in other areas that require different layers of legal services so you stand a good chance at finding work in the twin cities - just dont expect it to be at a large firm. Dont expect it to get you to Chicago unless you hit top quarter of the class or you have very strong IP credentials or diversity. Hiring takes place throughout the year and in patterns that arent exactly replicable in the T14 mold.

I think bottom third at UMN who dont have jobs lined up before coming will struggle a lot. Having ties would be a big plus.

As far as campus culture is concerned, have you visited? The faculty is stellar, and keep in mind the graduating 3Ls had (what are now) lower T14 numbers so student quality is traditionally strong. However, the facilities are lackluster, IMO. People here like to cite employment data which is great, but it takes a special kind of person to be "happy" when you cant go outside for 6 out of 8 months you are in school (although summers are gorgeous).

[rickgrimes69]

It's a great school if you want to work in MN and aren't expecting Biglaw. Having ties is a plus but not essential.

[middlemarch]

Minnesota def. doesn't have an OCI as large as T14 schools--OCI really caters to the top 25%, instead of the top 50% at most T14 schools. You can't go there expecting to get Biglaw on a median GPA. But for those within the top quartile (and if on the low end of that scale, +law review, or +interview skills, or +diversity, or +science background, or +work experience, etc.), UMN does place excellently in the Twin Cities, which has a number of AmLaw 100-200 firms that consistently rank among the better firms to work at, and best law firms for women, minorities, and LGBQT. In recent years the school has placed a handful of students into solid coastal firms (e.g. Cravath, Kaye Scholer, etc.), so I think coastal exit options exist for those with regional roots or, alternatively, exceptional grades. I believe coastal placement will continue to improve, as there's a concerted effort to have more off-campus interviewing. Minnesota does a decent job placing grads into clerkships in the area: a lot of state supreme and appellate courts, and some Art. III judges as well.

So, I think choice opportunities do exist at Minnesota and if you do want to live in the Twin Cities it's a good option. You just have to work hard, and do well, to get Biglaw.

[BigZuck]

I would just retake and aim higher, especially if you don't have solid ties to MN and you're interested in the Midwest in general. Just go to Northwestern or Chicago, job placement at Minnesota just isn't all that good. I would only go there if I was MN or bust and totally cool with working at a small firm and it was cheap.

[midwest17]

Just be in the top 25%, nbd.

[dusters]

UMN doesn't have a large OCI, so if you want a big new york or LA firm it's a bad call, but minneapolis has a traditionally strong economy in other areas that require different layers of legal services so you stand a good chance at finding work in the twin cities - just dont expect it to be at a large firm. Dont expect it to get you to Chicago unless you hit top quarter of the class or you have very strong IP credentials or diversity. Hiring takes place throughout the year and in patterns that arent exactly replicable in the T14 mold.

I think bottom third at UMN who dont have jobs lined up before coming will struggle a lot. Having ties would be a big plus.

As far as campus culture is concerned, have you visited? The faculty is stellar, and keep in mind the graduating 3Ls had (what are now) lower T14 numbers so student quality is traditionally strong. However, the facilities are lackluster, IMO. People here like to cite employment data which is great, but it takes a special kind of person to be "happy" when you cant go outside for 6 out of 8 months you are in school (although summers are gorgeous).

Can't go outside for 8 months? Are you one of those people who complain when it is sunny and 60?

[jbagelboy]

UMN doesn't have a large OCI, so if you want a big new york or LA firm it's a bad call, but minneapolis has a traditionally strong economy in other areas that require different layers of legal services so you stand a good chance at finding work in the twin cities - just dont expect it to be at a large firm. Dont expect it to get you to Chicago unless you hit top quarter of the class or you have very strong IP credentials or diversity. Hiring takes place throughout the year and in patterns that arent exactly replicable in the T14 mold.

I think bottom third at UMN who dont have jobs lined up before coming will struggle a lot. Having ties would be a big plus.

As far as campus culture is concerned, have you visited? The faculty is stellar, and keep in mind the graduating 3Ls had (what are now) lower T14 numbers so student quality is traditionally strong. However, the facilities are lackluster, IMO. People here like to cite employment data which is great, but it takes a special kind of person to be "happy" when you cant go outside for 6 out of 8 months you are in school (although summers are gorgeous).

Can't go outside for 8 months? Are you one of those people who complain when it is sunny and 60?

I said 6 out of 8 (read clearly!). I consider November through April (or mid October thru March depending on year-to-year fluctuations) in the twin cities to be on the frisky side. Its hardly 60 and sunny. And FYI, it is snowing outside my apartment where I live right now (not minneapolis) so Im not even particularly sensitive. Ive visited MN in early May and its still been low 40s though.

Again, mid-May through September it is very pleasant. But for out-of-staters, that's not when you are in school. And yes, Ive seen people move there and develop pretty severe seasonal depression.

[minnbills]

Not a UMN student, but I can tell you what I heard when I was looking:
Solid School but doesn't travel at all.
Basically locking yourself in to MN.
Not sure the path to in-house from UMN, but I'd guess you'd have to be in the 17% or so who get big firm or Fed Clerkships and then move from a firm to in-house after a few years.

I take issue with most of this.

UMN travels well, just not biglaw. On that note don't come here if you want biglaw, unless you have a science degree.

UMN is the top school in this region, except for any T14 graduate who decides to apply to the same position. By 'region' I mean the Dakotas, MN (obviously) WI, and Iowa. You could even stretch that out to Denver and the other western states.

There are many paths to in-house. The above-cited is the road most traveled, of course.

I am a 2L at UMN. My honest advice is to retake and go T14. I'm sorry you don't want to hear that, but I don't think law school, including this one, is worth it unless you're at a T14 or have a science degree.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Not a UMN student, but I can tell you what I heard when I was looking:
Solid School but doesn't travel at all.
Basically locking yourself in to MN.
Not sure the path to in-house from UMN, but I'd guess you'd have to be in the 17% or so who get big firm or Fed Clerkships and then move from a firm to in-house after a few years.

I take issue with most of this.

UMN travels well, just not biglaw. On that note don't come here if you want biglaw, unless you have a science degree.

UMN is the top school in this region, except for any T14 graduate who decides to apply to the same position. By 'region' I mean the Dakotas, MN (obviously) WI, and Iowa. You could even stretch that out to Denver and the other western states.

There are many paths to in-house. The above-cited is the road most traveled, of course.

I am a 2L at UMN. My honest advice is to retake and go T14. I'm sorry you don't want to hear that, but I don't think law school, including this one, is worth it unless you're at a T14 or have a science degree.

Lol.

UMN is top school in Denver and western states? Dude you go to an average school. It does not travel well, at all. Like not at all. The best school in the Wisconsin "region" is Wisco, the best school in the Iowa region is... Iowa. Stop trolling the 0Ls and perpetuating myths from USNEWS. Schools that "travel well" sell themselves, and not just to other alumni. Think HYS, to a lesser extent the T14. No one in "western states,"even the majority of attorneys, could tell you if UMN was top 25 or top 100. Just because you became a victim of USNEWS doesn't mean OP should.

OP, UMN is a fantastic school if you want to have a legal career in Minnesota. Good luck.

[minnbills]

Lol.

It depends on what kind of jobs you are applying to. UMN does travel well. The real myth is that unless you go to a top school you're stuck in the area you attend.

BTW I would not call UMN a top school, unless it's in the context of the upper midwest and western states.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Lol.

It depends on what kind of jobs you are applying to. UMN does travel well. The real myth is that unless you go to a top school you're stuck in the area you attend.

BTW I would not call UMN a top school, unless it's in the context of the upper midwest and western states.

If west = the Dakotas, sure. If west = Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Wyoming, Montana, not so much. (Which isn't to say it's impossible to go elsewhere from UMN, just that - based on my experience at a regional school - you're going to have to be especially proactive to do so.)

[jbagelboy]

Not a UMN student, but I can tell you what I heard when I was looking:
Solid School but doesn't travel at all.
Basically locking yourself in to MN.
Not sure the path to in-house from UMN, but I'd guess you'd have to be in the 17% or so who get big firm or Fed Clerkships and then move from a firm to in-house after a few years.

I take issue with most of this.

UMN travels well, just not biglaw. On that note don't come here if you want biglaw, unless you have a science degree.

UMN is the top school in this region, except for any T14 graduate who decides to apply to the same position. By 'region' I mean the Dakotas, MN (obviously) WI, and Iowa. You could even stretch that out to Denver and the other western states.

There are many paths to in-house. The above-cited is the road most traveled, of course.

I am a 2L at UMN. My honest advice is to retake and go T14. I'm sorry you don't want to hear that, but I don't think law school, including this one, is worth it unless you're at a T14 or have a science degree.

Lol.

UMN is top school in Denver and western states? Dude you go to an average school. It does not travel well, at all. Like not at all. The best school in the Wisconsin "region" is Wisco, the best school in the Iowa region is... Iowa. Stop trolling the 0Ls and perpetuating myths from USNEWS. Schools that "travel well" sell themselves, and not just to other alumni. Think HYS, to a lesser extent the T14. No one in "western states,"even the majority of attorneys, could tell you if UMN was top 25 or top 100. Just because you became a victim of USNEWS doesn't mean OP should.

OP, UMN is a fantastic school if you want to have a legal career in Minnesota. Good luck.

Tomato, tomato. I respectfully dissent. To a certain extent, US News influences public perception and vise versa. People in the midwest, especially those practicing law or in academia, tend to have a pretty high regard for Minnesota. It isnt just a recent up and comer - its been among the "top" schools for a while in boomer terminology (where top was T30, not T3). No, its not good for biglaw, but it is more well recognized in the region than Iowa or Wisconsin or UC ect.

Im not saying this should impact OPs decision whatsoever, and Im not denying that its a regional school through and through.

[Lord Randolph McDuff]

Not a UMN student, but I can tell you what I heard when I was looking:
Solid School but doesn't travel at all.
Basically locking yourself in to MN.
Not sure the path to in-house from UMN, but I'd guess you'd have to be in the 17% or so who get big firm or Fed Clerkships and then move from a firm to in-house after a few years.

I take issue with most of this.

UMN travels well, just not biglaw. On that note don't come here if you want biglaw, unless you have a science degree.

UMN is the top school in this region, except for any T14 graduate who decides to apply to the same position. By 'region' I mean the Dakotas, MN (obviously) WI, and Iowa. You could even stretch that out to Denver and the other western states.

There are many paths to in-house. The above-cited is the road most traveled, of course.

I am a 2L at UMN. My honest advice is to retake and go T14. I'm sorry you don't want to hear that, but I don't think law school, including this one, is worth it unless you're at a T14 or have a science degree.

Lol.

UMN is top school in Denver and western states? Dude you go to an average school. It does not travel well, at all. Like not at all. The best school in the Wisconsin "region" is Wisco, the best school in the Iowa region is... Iowa. Stop trolling the 0Ls and perpetuating myths from USNEWS. Schools that "travel well" sell themselves, and not just to other alumni. Think HYS, to a lesser extent the T14. No one in "western states,"even the majority of attorneys, could tell you if UMN was top 25 or top 100. Just because you became a victim of USNEWS doesn't mean OP should.

OP, UMN is a fantastic school if you want to have a legal career in Minnesota. Good luck.

Tomato, tomato. I respectfully dissent. To a certain extent, US News influences public perception and vise versa. People in the midwest, especially those practicing law or in academia, tend to have a pretty high regard for Minnesota. It isnt just a recent up and comer - its been among the "top" schools for a while in boomer terminology (where top was T30, not T3). No, its not good for biglaw, but it is more well recognized in the region than Iowa or Wisconsin or UC ect.

Im not saying this should impact OPs decision whatsoever, and Im not denying that its a regional school through and through.

Ok. So if you absolutely want to work in Iowa, should you attend UMN or Iowa?

Yeah, exactly, I thought so. So then what's the point of this "top regional" shit, that supposedly can "stretch" all the way from the Twin Cities to "Denver and western states?" Law rankings do not work that way. You don't get to draw a map of the country and divide it up into regions based on distances between law schools. Thats asine. If you don't want Biglaw, you go to school where you want to work because that's where all the alumni are. Of course "portability" is possible outside the T14, but that's because many individuals have the interpersonal skills to be portable, they could go to UMN or Texas Tech, it wouldn't matter.

Also, UMN has greater than or equal to 25% of their student body that couldn't get over that huge 156 hump on the LSAT. Yeah the place drips prestige.

Many twenty somethings on this site assume USNEWS can create prestige. A lot of these students probably go to schools like UMN, Arizona State, U of Washington, and they probably all moved across the country to attend. But the truth is that unless OP wants to work in Minnesota he should not attend UMN.

[Nova]

Also, UMN has greater than or equal to 25% of their student body that couldn't get over that huge 156 hump on the LSAT. Yeah the place drips prestige.

but they all have prestigious 3.8+'s!

[BentleyLittle]

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&t=165679

Not, have you checked out this thread?

[Nova]

that dude was PISSED he didn't sign up for examsoft in time.

lol

[BentleyLittle]

that dude was PISSED he didn't sign up for examsoft in time.

lol

He was very thorough with those pics haha

[jbagelboy]

that dude was PISSED he didn't sign up for examsoft in time.

lol

He was very thorough with those pics haha

I will say that policy, if accurate (its hard to believe they would be so harsh, especially in Minnesota!) sounds not only incredibly frustrating, but comparably frigid and uncompromising compared to my experience, hurting students unnecessarily.

Now that I can actually speak to my own personal ExamSoft disaster, I know that schools can reboot the program for download within minutes. At my school, when I had to replace laptops a day before the exam and the download Id made previously was unavailable, they just uploaded a new one for me that morning with no hassle or lecture. So that hilarious hater in the UMN may have had some degree of righteous indignation if they wouldnt upload the blank exam file for two weeks.