So you want to do PI?

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:52 pm

JCougar wrote:I'd be interested to know the ratio of paid PI fellowships versus the school-funded kind. My guess is it's closer to 10 of the latter to 1 of the former. But I have no way of knowing...this is just an estimate.


Estimates of outside ones (I don't remember the exact names):

10-15 Skadden
30-35 EJW
2-4 Yale PI
1-2 Berkeley Foundation
1-2 Philly Foundation
1 Bay Area Asian Law
1 Bay Area Viatnamese
5-10 Soros (not all are legal)
10 Soros for new Americans
2 Vermont PI
5 ACLU sponsored
30 Echoing Green (not all will go to lawyers)

There might be a few other random ones or organization-specific but that is basically it.

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JCougar
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby JCougar » Tue Feb 11, 2014 4:35 pm

That's about 100 you listed there, depending on how many actually go to lawyers. That's actually more than I would have thought.

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:23 pm

JCougar wrote:That's about 100 you listed there, depending on how many actually go to lawyers. That's actually more than I would have thought.


Not all go to new grads though. Some are open to all attorneys or those a few years out, or those coming out of clerkships.

Really with the PI field, once you are in, you're in. Having that one job will allow you to move up. It's getting that first job that's the problem.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:28 pm

There are the occasional more local-level fellowships, too. A friend of mine worked for a year as a fellow doing DV policy work at the state level in a position funded by our state bar (and has now moved into a permanent PI job, though again, state level, not the ACLU in NYC kind of work).

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:28 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
I've also never seen an employer look down on someone in a school funded position. It's still experience no matter who pays you.


Do they look down on folks who are fortunate enough to be able to volunteer FT postgrad? (i.e. SAUSA) Or is it experience all the same?

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 8:31 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
I've also never seen an employer look down on someone in a school funded position. It's still experience no matter who pays you.


Do they look down on folks who are fortunate enough to be able to volunteer FT postgrad? (i.e. SAUSA) Or is it experience all the same?


Not that I have seen, but put "law fellow" or something instead of volunteer on your resume.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:28 pm

Anyone apply to the AmeriCorps Legal Fellowships? How competitive are they compared to Skadden/EJW? Will being an AmeriCorps alum (City Year) help?

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:54 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Anyone apply to the AmeriCorps Legal Fellowships? How competitive are they compared to Skadden/EJW? Will being an AmeriCorps alum (City Year) help?


I could be wrong but isn't their deadline really late? From what I've seen, fellowships that have deadlines in the spring get fewer apps. Anyone who already got a fellowship, job, or clerkship isn't applying, or they're too exhausted from all the other apps to keep going.

I can't really name which one it was because I'm not supposed to know this, but one fairly prestigious fellowship got 3 applications last year. Spring deadline, they didn't publicize it too well, and the app required a lot of work.

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LSL
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby LSL » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:04 pm

Does anyone know how difficult it is to meet with employers over your winter or spring break during 3L? Say if you were going from a large city to one of the big 3 (NY, Chicago, LA) and hoping to get a job there after you graduate. I've got some reasons for not wanting to do the visiting student thing. But, I've got solid experience (3+ years) in a pretty big area of PI that I could apply to fed, state, local, or non-profit work in. And some Spanish skills that are pretty good, but getting better. :lol:.

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:11 pm

LSL wrote:Does anyone know how difficult it is to meet with employers over your winter or spring break during 3L? Say if you were going from a large city to one of the big 3 (NY, Chicago, LA) and hoping to get a job there after you graduate. I've got some reasons for not wanting to do the visiting student thing. But, I've got solid experience (3+ years) in a pretty big area of PI that I could apply to fed, state, local, or non-profit work in. And some Spanish skills that are pretty good, but getting better. :lol:.


Winter will be kind of tough due to the holidays. People take time off and a lot of non-profits/gov have end of year reports and auditing to do that time of year. Spring break or the very, very beginning of winter break are probably good times though.

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LSL
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby LSL » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:20 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
LSL wrote:Does anyone know how difficult it is to meet with employers over your winter or spring break during 3L? Say if you were going from a large city to one of the big 3 (NY, Chicago, LA) and hoping to get a job there after you graduate. I've got some reasons for not wanting to do the visiting student thing. But, I've got solid experience (3+ years) in a pretty big area of PI that I could apply to fed, state, local, or non-profit work in. And some Spanish skills that are pretty good, but getting better. :lol:.


Winter will be kind of tough due to the holidays. People take time off and a lot of non-profits/gov have end of year reports and auditing to do that time of year. Spring break or the very, very beginning of winter break are probably good times though.


Thanks! Is it generally true that gov't gets its budget info around July? I think that's about right for non-profits, but I might be wrong. Just trying to see where I would be at in the money distribution cycle if I were to put some resumes out to employers in November or February (so I could simultaneously state I'd be available in the city a couple weeks to a month from then).

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:33 pm

LSL wrote:Does anyone know how difficult it is to meet with employers over your winter or spring break during 3L? Say if you were going from a large city to one of the big 3 (NY, Chicago, LA) and hoping to get a job there after you graduate. I've got some reasons for not wanting to do the visiting student thing. But, I've got solid experience (3+ years) in a pretty big area of PI that I could apply to fed, state, local, or non-profit work in. And some Spanish skills that are pretty good, but getting better. :lol:.


Have you thought about volunteering over winter/spring break as opposed to just coffee dates? My school organizes pro bono trips, but I decided to go solo and arrange one myself since none of the "official" trips went to the city I'm targeting.

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 11:34 pm

LSL wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:
LSL wrote:Does anyone know how difficult it is to meet with employers over your winter or spring break during 3L? Say if you were going from a large city to one of the big 3 (NY, Chicago, LA) and hoping to get a job there after you graduate. I've got some reasons for not wanting to do the visiting student thing. But, I've got solid experience (3+ years) in a pretty big area of PI that I could apply to fed, state, local, or non-profit work in. And some Spanish skills that are pretty good, but getting better. :lol:.


Winter will be kind of tough due to the holidays. People take time off and a lot of non-profits/gov have end of year reports and auditing to do that time of year. Spring break or the very, very beginning of winter break are probably good times though.


Thanks! Is it generally true that gov't gets its budget info around July? I think that's about right for non-profits, but I might be wrong. Just trying to see where I would be at in the money distribution cycle if I were to put some resumes out to employers in November or February (so I could simultaneously state I'd be available in the city a couple weeks to a month from then).


It varies on who funds a non-profit and what the reporting requirements are. I think Feb would be better, but I'm also in DC which treats xmas as a 2 week long holiday.

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LSL
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby LSL » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:04 am

BlueLotus wrote:
LSL wrote:Does anyone know how difficult it is to meet with employers over your winter or spring break during 3L? Say if you were going from a large city to one of the big 3 (NY, Chicago, LA) and hoping to get a job there after you graduate. I've got some reasons for not wanting to do the visiting student thing. But, I've got solid experience (3+ years) in a pretty big area of PI that I could apply to fed, state, local, or non-profit work in. And some Spanish skills that are pretty good, but getting better. :lol:.


Have you thought about volunteering over winter/spring break as opposed to just coffee dates? My school organizes pro bono trips, but I decided to go solo and arrange one myself since none of the "official" trips went to the city I'm targeting.


I had not thought about that before, but I like it! Probably easier to do for non-profits than gov't. On that note, does anyone know a good place to get starting salary info on specific non-profits? Just wondering if there's some amazing salary info out there I'm not aware of. If not, does anyone have a method they recommend? (ex: check with HR).

worldtraveler wrote:It varies on who funds a non-profit and what the reporting requirements are. I think Feb would be better, but I'm also in DC which treats xmas as a 2 week long holiday.


Okay thanks. Yeah, I'm guessing Feb makes more sense too.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:07 am

LSL wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
LSL wrote:Does anyone know how difficult it is to meet with employers over your winter or spring break during 3L? Say if you were going from a large city to one of the big 3 (NY, Chicago, LA) and hoping to get a job there after you graduate. I've got some reasons for not wanting to do the visiting student thing. But, I've got solid experience (3+ years) in a pretty big area of PI that I could apply to fed, state, local, or non-profit work in. And some Spanish skills that are pretty good, but getting better. :lol:.


Have you thought about volunteering over winter/spring break as opposed to just coffee dates? My school organizes pro bono trips, but I decided to go solo and arrange one myself since none of the "official" trips went to the city I'm targeting.


I had not thought about that before, but I like it! Probably easier to do for non-profits than gov't. On that note, does anyone know a good place to get starting salary info on specific non-profits? Just wondering if there's some amazing salary info out there I'm not aware of. If not, does anyone have a method they recommend? (ex: check with HR).

worldtraveler wrote:It varies on who funds a non-profit and what the reporting requirements are. I think Feb would be better, but I'm also in DC which treats xmas as a 2 week long holiday.


Okay thanks. Yeah, I'm guessing Feb makes more sense too.



Glassdoor is a good source for salary info for specific non-profits...for instance:
--LinkRemoved--

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LSL
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby LSL » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:10 am

BlueLotus wrote:
LSL wrote:I had not thought about that before, but I like it! Probably easier to do for non-profits than gov't. On that note, does anyone know a good place to get starting salary info on specific non-profits? Just wondering if there's some amazing salary info out there I'm not aware of. If not, does anyone have a method they recommend? (ex: check with HR).

worldtraveler wrote:It varies on who funds a non-profit and what the reporting requirements are. I think Feb would be better, but I'm also in DC which treats xmas as a 2 week long holiday.


Okay thanks. Yeah, I'm guessing Feb makes more sense too.



Glassdoor is a good source for salary info for specific non-profits...for instance:
--LinkRemoved--


Awesome, thanks! Wow, 61k-74k is more than I thought Legal Aid paid (but don't worry, not trying to intrude on your territory :lol:).

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:27 am

LSL wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
LSL wrote:I had not thought about that before, but I like it! Probably easier to do for non-profits than gov't. On that note, does anyone know a good place to get starting salary info on specific non-profits? Just wondering if there's some amazing salary info out there I'm not aware of. If not, does anyone have a method they recommend? (ex: check with HR).

worldtraveler wrote:It varies on who funds a non-profit and what the reporting requirements are. I think Feb would be better, but I'm also in DC which treats xmas as a 2 week long holiday.


Okay thanks. Yeah, I'm guessing Feb makes more sense too.



Glassdoor is a good source for salary info for specific non-profits...for instance:
--LinkRemoved--


Awesome, thanks! Wow, 61k-74k is more than I thought Legal Aid paid (but don't worry, not trying to intrude on your territory :lol:).


well, it IS NYC! i've seen legal aid for native american reservations in the boonies in the low-30s. :shock:

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LSL
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby LSL » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:33 am

BlueLotus wrote:
LSL wrote:Awesome, thanks! Wow, 61k-74k is more than I thought Legal Aid paid (but don't worry, not trying to intrude on your territory :lol:).


well, it IS NYC! i've seen legal aid for native american reservations in the boonies in the low-30s. :shock:


Truth. And that salary in NYC probably doesn't get one too far. Really drives in the "doing it for the love of it" part :) .

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ndirish2010
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby ndirish2010 » Wed Feb 12, 2014 12:40 am

Contrary to what's going on in this thread, there are some PI fellowships on the other side of the political spectrum too...

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coldshoulder
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby coldshoulder » Wed Feb 12, 2014 4:42 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Contrary to what's going on in this thread, there are some PI fellowships on the other side of the political spectrum too...


True, but I don't think most of us are into oppressing people.

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sd5289
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby sd5289 » Thu Feb 13, 2014 9:14 am

LSL wrote:Awesome, thanks! Wow, 61k-74k is more than I thought Legal Aid paid (but don't worry, not trying to intrude on your territory :lol:).


Also depends on geographic location, and gov't vs non-gov't. A lot of the gov't positions will pay slightly more than the typical non-profit PI position. If you can get fed, that's even more.

txpasley
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby txpasley » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:22 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Anyone apply to the AmeriCorps Legal Fellowships? How competitive are they compared to Skadden/EJW? Will being an AmeriCorps alum (City Year) help?


I have a cousin who went to did one after law school and then worked in Legal Aid. She's now a clinical professor at a Law School in the Midwest. I have been trying to set up a conversation with her for a month or two, but she just had a baby, so she's a little preoccupied right now. I'm still planning to speak with her, and I was planning to ask about the fellowship anyway, so I'll let you know.

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kemosabe
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby kemosabe » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:37 pm

I'm not sure if this has been answered elsewhere, and if so I apologize, but does anyone know if particular schools, firms, or NGOs are more likely to have associates lateral into the fed gov? I am interested in a fed gov position, especially DOJ or DOS, but maybe not immediately after law school. I know that since these positions are extremely competitive, it's a huge assumption to think it'd be on the table anyways.

In other words, how often do people go from biglaw or another organization to the fed gov? And are there particular schools, firms, or organizations that I should target if this is my goal?

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:39 pm

kemosabe wrote:I'm not sure if this has been answered elsewhere, and if so I apologize, but does anyone know if particular schools, firms, or NGOs are more likely to have associates lateral into the fed gov? I am interested in a fed gov position, especially DOJ or DOS, but maybe not immediately after law school. I know that since these positions are extremely competitive, it's a huge assumption to think it'd be on the table anyways.

In other words, how often do people go from biglaw or another organization to the fed gov? And are there particular schools, firms, or organizations that I should target if this is my goal?


Target the best schools and go to a firm first.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Thu Feb 13, 2014 12:40 pm

txpasley wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Anyone apply to the AmeriCorps Legal Fellowships? How competitive are they compared to Skadden/EJW? Will being an AmeriCorps alum (City Year) help?


I have a cousin who went to did one after law school and then worked in Legal Aid. She's now a clinical professor at a Law School in the Midwest. I have been trying to set up a conversation with her for a month or two, but she just had a baby, so she's a little preoccupied right now. I'm still planning to speak with her, and I was planning to ask about the fellowship anyway, so I'll let you know.


Thanks!

These pay worse than EJW, right? (like mid-30s?)




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