So you want to do PI?

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sd5289
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby sd5289 » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:16 pm

I actually wanted to bump this re. interviewing skills:

Even though I'm still in law school, I ended up interviewing 1L's for summer internships at a job fair today for the PI organization I consult for now (and used to work for prior to law school). I'd forgotten my experiences interviewing people at that fair while I was still working FT at this organization, but today really brought it home to me just how important a quality interview is. There's been a lot of fantastic advice in this thread, and in other areas of the forum (see the PD/DA gunner thread) about what sorts of topics to expect, what kinds of ideas to express, etc., but one aspect that I haven't really seen discussed in detail is how important your personality and just being a real person is to PI organizations.

There were some very strong resumes in the stack this morning (from top law schools) that turned out to be the weakest interviews we conducted...we're not extending them offers despite the fact that both their credentials and work background are fairly strong. Despite being only 20 minutes in length, these interviews were painful to get through because of just how stiff and robotic the candidate was. I even asked one about a very interesting undergrad thesis that she wrote to try and throw her a bone and see some kind of enthusiasm or interest, but she remained very cursory and dull. It was such a stark contrast with the candidates who didn't have the same level of credentials (read: school name, class rank, etc.) but had similar WE and interests, and it was a no brainer that we were extending offers to the latter group.

My coworker and I were discussing it during lunch, and we both agreed that the "bad" interviews concerned us for two reasons: a) how was that going to translate into their direct client work, especially with clients who are already intimidated and anxious about accessing legal remedies in the first place, and b) how were we going to get through 10 weeks of being in the same office with them?

Long story short, professional is good during interviews, but let your personality out some. There's a reason you're aiming for PI, and the salary ain't it. If you're really excited about a particular organization, let it show a bit. Smile. I know that nerves always come into it, but most PI interviewers tend to be pretty chill people and would love to have a normal conversation with you and will appreciate you for it. Especially when they start asking about things on your resume that aren't necessarily related to the job. That means they want to get to know who you are. I always get questions about racing and running marathons, which I know is my cue to give them a little insight into who I am outside of work. I always joke that it's my excuse to travel and go to places like Miami during the winter, and I'll eventually run the Paris Marathon but I probably won't be all that concentrated on the actual race itself (which is all true).

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spleenworship
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby spleenworship » Fri Feb 07, 2014 7:24 pm

sd5289 wrote:I actually wanted to bump this re. interviewing skills:

Even though I'm still in law school, I ended up interviewing 1L's for summer internships at a job fair today for the PI organization I consult for now (and used to work for prior to law school). I'd forgotten my experiences interviewing people at that fair while I was still working FT at this organization, but today really brought it home to me just how important a quality interview is. There's been a lot of fantastic advice in this thread, and in other areas of the forum (see the PD/DA gunner thread) about what sorts of topics to expect, what kinds of ideas to express, etc., but one aspect that I haven't really seen discussed in detail is how important your personality and just being a real person is to PI organizations.

There were some very strong resumes in the stack this morning (from top law schools) that turned out to be the weakest interviews we conducted...we're not extending them offers despite the fact that both their credentials and work background are fairly strong. Despite being only 20 minutes in length, these interviews were painful to get through because of just how stiff and robotic the candidate was. I even asked one about a very interesting undergrad thesis that she wrote to try and throw her a bone and see some kind of enthusiasm or interest, but she remained very cursory and dull. It was such a stark contrast with the candidates who didn't have the same level of credentials (read: school name, class rank, etc.) but had similar WE and interests, and it was a no brainer that we were extending offers to the latter group.

My coworker and I were discussing it during lunch, and we both agreed that the "bad" interviews concerned us for two reasons: a) how was that going to translate into their direct client work, especially with clients who are already intimidated and anxious about accessing legal remedies in the first place, and b) how were we going to get through 10 weeks of being in the same office with them?

Long story short, professional is good during interviews, but let your personality out some. There's a reason you're aiming for PI, and the salary ain't it. If you're really excited about a particular organization, let it show a bit. Smile. I know that nerves always come into it, but most PI interviewers tend to be pretty chill people and would love to have a normal conversation with you and will appreciate you for it. Especially when they start asking about things on your resume that aren't necessarily related to the job. That means they want to get to know who you are. I always get questions about racing and running marathons, which I know is my cue to give them a little insight into who I am outside of work. I always joke that it's my excuse to travel and go to places like Miami during the winter, and I'll eventually run the Paris Marathon but I probably won't be all that concentrated on the actual race itself (which is all true).


As someone who has been involved in hiring (caveat: in healthcare, not in law), this advice seems pretty excellent and worth following to me.

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LSL
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby LSL » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:28 pm

Wanted to bump this because I think I found a really great place to practice Spanish. I did a search to see if it was mentioned, yet, but didn't see it. It's called Verbling (http://www.verbling.com). It's free although you can buy plans that allow you to participate in classes online. But you can chat for free (at least for a little while). I'm still discovering parts of it, but it's so awesome so far that I had to come here and recomendarlo!

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:47 pm

LSL wrote:Wanted to bump this because I think I found a really great place to practice Spanish. I did a search to see if it was mentioned, yet, but didn't see it. It's called Verbling (http://www.verbling.com). It's free although you can buy plans that allow you to participate in classes online. But you can chat for free (at least for a little while). I'm still discovering parts of it, but it's so awesome so far that I had to come here and recomendarlo!


Thank you!

Just getting into Duolingo, and it is hella addictive.

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LSL
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby LSL » Sat Feb 08, 2014 1:50 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
LSL wrote:Wanted to bump this because I think I found a really great place to practice Spanish. I did a search to see if it was mentioned, yet, but didn't see it. It's called Verbling (http://www.verbling.com). It's free although you can buy plans that allow you to participate in classes online. But you can chat for free (at least for a little while). I'm still discovering parts of it, but it's so awesome so far that I had to come here and recomendarlo!


Thank you!

Just getting into Duolingo, and it is hella addictive.


I checked out Duolingo a while back. I'll have to check it out again, thanks :D . I should say to that even though I'll use Verbling for Spanish, there are a ton of languages for the chat room area (Chinese, French, Arabic, Italian). I think it's just that some of those classes are still in beta for the classes. It looks like there might be people who will chat though.

txpasley
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby txpasley » Sun Feb 09, 2014 5:50 pm

So rather than starting a new thread and getting 20 different "Retake and shoot for HYS" responses, I want to pose my 0L dilemma in this thread since it seems like I'll get better advice. I'm applying to law school for the fall of 2014.

First, some background.

I graduated from college in May 2011 and have been working in a non-legal job since then. For what it's worth, I have been successful in that career and have worked at the same place where I have consistently received raises, promotions, and good performance reviews. I didn't really have plans to go to law school until late last summer when a confluence of inspiration and soul-searching (I won't get into the nitty-gritty here) led me to apply to law school. As I stated above in the thread, I'm interested in doing civil liberties work, which is something I've had a long-standing interest in. I'm especially interested in what I guess we could call "criminal civil liberties work," i.e. Death Penalty, Prisoner's Rights, etc. In addition to working full-time, I currently volunteer at an Innocence Project (I live in Arizona right now), and plan to be there until the fall when I go to law school. The volunteer work is pretty meaningful. I do quite a bit of research and writing, prisoner correspondence, etc. I'm sure some people here can relate, but the organization doesn't really have enough employees to handle all the work that needs to be done, so volunteers are given responsibility immediately. I also think my supervisor would be happy to give me a strong recommendation.

I wouldn't say I'm "gunning" for any particular career, but I'm in my mid-twenties, I'm single, have no prior educational debt, and no real need to live in a certain place. In other words, this is the time to be idealistic and shoot high. It may turn out that I didn't edit the Yale Law Journal, clerk on the Supreme Court, and argue the case that eliminates the Death Penalty in America, but I want to say I gave it a go.

So now we need to balance that idealism with facts.

I won't blow you up with my stats, but I've been accepted as far up the USN rankings as Columbia, and I'm still waiting to hear back from Chicago, Harvard, Yale, and Stanford (the only other hold-out is Berkeley). I'm starting to receive aid offers, and I've gotten healthy money on the lower end, and NYU just informed me that I will not be receiving grant money, need or merit-based (I still haven't received enough offers to start negotiating with them). Obviously, things are incomplete, but I think it's fair at this point to ask two questions:

1) As someone who is pretty set on PI,* how much should I be weighing LRAPs v. Grant Money? It seems like I'm going to face a situation where I can go to a school where I take out half as much in loans, but if my career goes roughly as I would like, I might end up footing more of the loan repayment myself at the school that gives me more money. This might be a question that only I can answer, but do people have any advice on how to strike that balance.

2) Assuming I'm not Yale, Harvard, Stanford material, how much better is NYU for big-time PI than other schools? On paper, it seems to have some advantages:

-The big thing is that they have a great LRAP. From what I can get out of it (http://www.law.nyu.edu/financialaid/lra ... 2009-after), they cover 100% up to $80k, and you're only on the hook for 40% of the difference above that number. The only thing comparable seems to be Chicago, which covers 100% up to $80k as well, but then gives you nothing above that limit. Everyone else seems to stop full repayment at $50-60k, with pro-rated benefits up to around the $80k range.

-This isn't really scientific, but the attorney profiles on the websites of orgs which I'm interested in (e.g., ACLU) seem to have a fair number of NYU grads.

-They have a crapload of clinics, including a few that really tie with my interests, they're located in a city where many major PI organizations are located, and they do seem PI-committed as an institution, just in the range of programs and scholarships they offer (but if someone has info, I am curious about the extent to which they support PI development for students outside of their scholarship programs). Guaranteed summer funding as well.

It's still early obviously, and I'm planning visits to my short-list of schools, but any advice as to distinctions among these schools and their level of PI support, and specific support for my areas of interest would be great.


*I've visited law firms, and I volunteer for a PI organization, and can tell you I fit in much more at the latter; I also certainly don't make anything resembling good money now, but I'm perfectly happy with what I make and know how to save, budget, and pay my bills. And what I make now seems like it's starting salary material for a PI lawyer.

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midwest17
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby midwest17 » Sun Feb 09, 2014 6:53 pm

I take it you didn't apply to the RTK at NYU?

I'm going to have to make a similar decision to the one facing you. I can't tell you what the right choice is, but here's my thought process:

* If you want a prestigious clerkship, you're going to be much better off at schools that put more resources into it. My sense is that means Yale/Stanford/Chicago/Michigan, but others might have different opinions.
* When it comes to LRAP vs scholarships, I'm inclined to prefer scholarships, with a few exceptions. Most LRAP programs require that you be working in qualifying employment, and in the current environment that won't necessarily be easy to find. LRAP also means 10 years of dealing with verification of income, etc. That said, programs like Yale's, which helps repay loans with regard to income only (so it doesn't matter where you're working) are worth taking at sticker even over full rides at other schools, I think.
* Bear in mind that COL over and above tuition can easily add up to more debt than you can pay off with 10 years on IBR and a PI salary, so even with a full ride you may end up relying on LRAP.

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Sun Feb 09, 2014 7:09 pm

Your options coming out of any elite school will be very, very similar. Sure, NYU may put more people in some of those jobs but it also has a larger class size than some other schools and just more PI interest at the school. Clinics, journals, and student activities are also really similar. I've said this a million times but you cannot do every clinic in law school; 1 or 2 are really enough.

The main things to look for should be
1. Does the school have postgrad fellowships? All elite schools should, but check. Do they have summer funding? Again, they should, but check.
2. What does the LRAP cover? Not just what salary but what kinds of jobs.
3. Do you like the vibe of the school? Do future classmates seem like assholes?
4. Do professors seem receptive to talking to students? they can be crucial in finding job opportunities.
5. Where is the school? NYU/Columbia and Berkeley/Stanford really do have an advantage due to location. There are lots of elite internship options during the year.

Really if you are PI dedicated and choosing among the top 10, it's more personal preference than anything. There are small differences but if you just like NYU better than Columbia or vice versa, pick the one you like. Your options upon graduation will be pretty much the same.

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JCougar
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby JCougar » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:43 pm

What worldtraveler said is generally correct, but I would definitely go to a T6 school if I had ACLU on my radar.

There's still risk, of course, in relying on LRAP, because getting an actual PI job from anywhere is no guarantee, especially if we have another recession/the Tea Party takes over Congress and slashes legal aid/agency funding, etc. But the kind of organizations it sounds like you want to work for are very prestige-oriented to the point where I wouldn't go anywhere lower than NYU or possibly Berkeley. You at least have a background that will give you a leg up on everyone else. I think you're in a very good position overall. Good luck.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Sun Feb 09, 2014 9:55 pm

JCougar wrote:What worldtraveler said is generally correct, but I would definitely go to a T6 school if I had ACLU on my radar.

There's still risk, of course, in relying on LRAP, because getting an actual PI job from anywhere is no guarantee, especially if we have another recession/the Tea Party takes over Congress and slashes legal aid/agency funding, etc. But the kind of organizations it sounds like you want to work for are very prestige-oriented to the point where I wouldn't go anywhere lower than NYU or possibly Berkeley. You at least have a background that will give you a leg up on everyone else. I think you're in a very good position overall. Good luck.


Just to be clear, direct legal services orgs generally DGAF re: school rank, right? Wanna work in the trenches here, and possess none of the PREFTIGIOUS creds (only T30, decent but not stellar grades, no LR, no Moot Ct.) :)

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FlanAl
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby FlanAl » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:38 pm

txpasley wrote:


*I've visited law firms, and I volunteer for a PI organization, and can tell you I fit in much more at the latter; I also certainly don't make anything resembling good money now, but I'm perfectly happy with what I make and know how to save, budget, and pay my bills. And what I make now seems like it's starting salary material for a PI lawyer.


So it seems like you are really interested in Death Penalty stuff. What I would do is research the faculty that runs the school's death penalty clinic. I know that it wasn't on your list but Cornell actually has a really good death penalty program and I know that the two professors who run it will really pull strings to help people get work in that arena.

Bryan Stevenson at NYU is a rockstar but I have no idea how much he helps students out.

I also bolded the above because it reminded me of txpasley's post. There are definitely number of kids from prestigious schools who opt to go the PI route because they don't think they are a personality fit. I've met a lot of these kids and hearing txpasley's experience, I think a lot of them wouldn't be a good fit for PI either. I'm sure you aren't one of these kids, but its definitely something to think about.

Good luck with your decision!

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FlanAl
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby FlanAl » Sun Feb 09, 2014 11:41 pm

sd5289 wrote:I actually wanted to bump this re. interviewing skills:

Even though I'm still in law school, I ended up interviewing 1L's for summer internships at a job fair today for the PI organization I consult for now (and used to work for prior to law school). I'd forgotten my experiences interviewing people at that fair while I was still working FT at this organization, but today really brought it home to me just how important a quality interview is. There's been a lot of fantastic advice in this thread, and in other areas of the forum (see the PD/DA gunner thread) about what sorts of topics to expect, what kinds of ideas to express, etc., but one aspect that I haven't really seen discussed in detail is how important your personality and just being a real person is to PI organizations.

There were some very strong resumes in the stack this morning (from top law schools) that turned out to be the weakest interviews we conducted...we're not extending them offers despite the fact that both their credentials and work background are fairly strong. Despite being only 20 minutes in length, these interviews were painful to get through because of just how stiff and robotic the candidate was. I even asked one about a very interesting undergrad thesis that she wrote to try and throw her a bone and see some kind of enthusiasm or interest, but she remained very cursory and dull. It was such a stark contrast with the candidates who didn't have the same level of credentials (read: school name, class rank, etc.) but had similar WE and interests, and it was a no brainer that we were extending offers to the latter group.

My coworker and I were discussing it during lunch, and we both agreed that the "bad" interviews concerned us for two reasons: a) how was that going to translate into their direct client work, especially with clients who are already intimidated and anxious about accessing legal remedies in the first place, and b) how were we going to get through 10 weeks of being in the same office with them?

Long story short, professional is good during interviews, but let your personality out some. There's a reason you're aiming for PI, and the salary ain't it. If you're really excited about a particular organization, let it show a bit. Smile. I know that nerves always come into it, but most PI interviewers tend to be pretty chill people and would love to have a normal conversation with you and will appreciate you for it. Especially when they start asking about things on your resume that aren't necessarily related to the job. That means they want to get to know who you are. I always get questions about racing and running marathons, which I know is my cue to give them a little insight into who I am outside of work. I always joke that it's my excuse to travel and go to places like Miami during the winter, and I'll eventually run the Paris Marathon but I probably won't be all that concentrated on the actual race itself (which is all true).


Do you think that all things equal the chill person with the credentials does better than the chill person without? The thread had a bit of discussion earlier about how school rank doesn't matter at all so I was curious as to what your take on this would be.

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JCougar
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby JCougar » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:07 am

BlueLotus wrote:Just to be clear, direct legal services orgs generally DGAF re: school rank, right? Wanna work in the trenches here, and possess none of the PREFTIGIOUS creds (only T30, decent but not stellar grades, no LR, no Moot Ct.) :)


Yeah, I think you should be fine. You've had internships in PI, right? That's by far the #1 factor. Most PI orgs care about interest 10 times more than school rank and grades. But certain orgs (ACLU, SPLC, civil rights plaintiff's firms, etc.) make law students get starbursts in their eyes, so there's just insane competition and these orgs can simply have their pick of students...and their picks are usually HYSCCN+B.

When I was a 1L, I told my CSO that I wanted to do SPLC, and they were like LOL, this isn't Harvard...you should probably set more realistic goals. But also, for legal services PI, a T30 is still pretty good. You do stand out from the pack, because there's a lot of TTT grads with no other options looking to volunteer anywhere they can. T30 plus PI internships should help you out.

Just prepare for the fact that even if you do get a post-grad PI position, a lot of places hire you for a 1-year, unpaid "volunteer" fellowship. This will be school funded if your school has funding for this. No need to be ashamed if this is what you do, though...almost everyone who gets into PI has to do this.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Feb 10, 2014 9:59 am

JCougar wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:Just to be clear, direct legal services orgs generally DGAF re: school rank, right? Wanna work in the trenches here, and possess none of the PREFTIGIOUS creds (only T30, decent but not stellar grades, no LR, no Moot Ct.) :)


Yeah, I think you should be fine. You've had internships in PI, right? That's by far the #1 factor. Most PI orgs care about interest 10 times more than school rank and grades. But certain orgs (ACLU, SPLC, civil rights plaintiff's firms, etc.) make law students get starbursts in their eyes, so there's just insane competition and these orgs can simply have their pick of students...and their picks are usually HYSCCN+B.

When I was a 1L, I told my CSO that I wanted to do SPLC, and they were like LOL, this isn't Harvard...you should probably set more realistic goals. But also, for legal services PI, a T30 is still pretty good. You do stand out from the pack, because there's a lot of TTT grads with no other options looking to volunteer anywhere they can. T30 plus PI internships should help you out.

Just prepare for the fact that even if you do get a post-grad PI position, a lot of places hire you for a 1-year, unpaid "volunteer" fellowship. This will be school funded if your school has funding for this. No need to be ashamed if this is what you do, though...almost everyone who gets into PI has to do this.


I volunteered a bit during 1L, did PI 1L summer, doing 2 PI internships during 2L year, and have a PI gig lined up for 2L summer. Also volunteered during winter and spring breaks. All legal aid. So yeah, I'm hustlin'. 8)

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Feb 10, 2014 1:33 pm

Quick ?--is having doc review on your resume a scarlet letter in PI as it is for firms? Or will they understand that ITE, even students from good schools have to scrounge for such positions?

As I hurtle on towards Vale territory (T-3 months away), such a prospect seems a distinct possibility!

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JCougar
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby JCougar » Mon Feb 10, 2014 2:11 pm

BlueLotus wrote:Quick ?--is having doc review on your resume a scarlet letter in PI as it is for firms? Or will they understand that ITE, even students from good schools have to scrounge for such positions?

As I hurtle on towards Vale territory (T-3 months away), such a prospect seems a distinct possibility!


I wouldn't worry about that at all. Honestly, a lot of Biglaw first year associates do doc review.

throwaway1901
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby throwaway1901 » Mon Feb 10, 2014 4:54 pm

I would like to do "prestigious" PI if I get the opportunity, but I also want to work "in the trenches." If I don't get into HYSCCN for the prestigious work, would I be better off going to a lower T-14 or even a TT with $$$ and hustling for the less prestigious work?

Also, is URM an important factor at all in PI hiring?

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Mon Feb 10, 2014 5:14 pm

throwaway1901 wrote:I would like to do "prestigious" PI if I get the opportunity, but I also want to work "in the trenches." If I don't get into HYSCCN for the prestigious work, would I be better off going to a lower T-14 or even a TT with $$$ and hustling for the less prestigious work?

Also, is URM an important factor at all in PI hiring?


Depends on the TT. Temple is a solid Tier 2 school if you have ties to Philly, wanna be in Philly, and are going for cheap/free. Temple practically like runs the Philly DA/PD.

American, on the other hand, is not worth it ITE under any circumstance.

"Diversity" should, I'd imagine, be a boost for PD/Legal Aid hiring. For instance, being a low-income person of color may help you better identify with the day-to-day struggles your clients face.

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sd5289
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby sd5289 » Tue Feb 11, 2014 12:21 am

FlanAl wrote:Do you think that all things equal the chill person with the credentials does better than the chill person without? The thread had a bit of discussion earlier about how school rank doesn't matter at all so I was curious as to what your take on this would be.


Of course, but I would be careful in how you define "credentials" in this context. For my PI organization, we rank credentials in order of importance (roughly): practical work experience related directly to the work we do, language skills, legal research/writing skills (we draft a lot of affidavits/petitions), school/grades, and work experience in general (i.e. is this your first "real" job or do you know how to work in the professional sector already?).

So at the fair last week we had a number of qualified candidates with some kind of practical WE on their resumes as well as a language skill we could use. All things being equal on paper, we would've picked the T5 kids...except they interviewed about as well as a 3rd grader. I do think that a good personality and ability to interview as a real human being can make all the difference when "all things are equal."

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JCougar
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby JCougar » Tue Feb 11, 2014 1:59 pm

throwaway1901 wrote:I would like to do "prestigious" PI if I get the opportunity, but I also want to work "in the trenches." If I don't get into HYSCCN for the prestigious work, would I be better off going to a lower T-14 or even a TT with $$$ and hustling for the less prestigious work?

Also, is URM an important factor at all in PI hiring?


It's a personal decision, but it's my opinion that if you don't get into HYSCCNB for prestigious PI, you are better off minimizing your debt and relying on interning/networking. There's probably other schools outside NYSCCNB that have pretty solid aid programs for those that get into PI, and this should be a consideration as well, but there's just not many jobs in PI out there, and prestige only matters to a few very selective organizations. Otherwise, it's more demonstrated interest. And it's MUCH easier to do the PI internships and post-graduate fellowships if you just don't have much debt...because these internships and fellowships will all be unpaid.

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:41 pm

In my opinion if you are deadset on PI you should go for free or go to a school with post-grad fellowships. It really is that important.

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twenty
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby twenty » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:50 pm

I feel like on TLS, there's this antagonism towards school-funded jobs (probably deserved, considering some schools trying to use it to shore up their numbers). I appreciate a school like NYU reducing the unemployed gap with school funded jobs because otherwise these graduates would be volunteering for no paycheck.

Out of curiosity, how well do "real" PI fellowships pay?

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Tue Feb 11, 2014 2:52 pm

twenty wrote:I feel like on TLS, there's this antagonism towards school-funded jobs (probably deserved, considering some schools trying to use it to shore up their numbers). I appreciate a school like NYU reducing the unemployed gap with school funded jobs because otherwise these graduates would be volunteering for no paycheck.


People don't like it because it makes recent grads look employed when technically they really are not. But given how difficult it is to find a job with the feds, NGOs, or non-profits when you are straight out of school, it really is the difference between being unemployed and breaking into the field.

I've also never seen an employer look down on someone in a school funded position. It's still experience no matter who pays you.

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Pleasye
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Joined: Sun Mar 14, 2010 4:22 pm

Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby Pleasye » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:20 pm

twenty wrote:Out of curiosity, how well do "real" PI fellowships pay?

Like 35k.

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JCougar
Posts: 3175
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2008 8:47 pm

Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby JCougar » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:35 pm

I'd be interested to know the ratio of paid PI fellowships versus the school-funded kind. My guess is it's closer to 10 of the latter to 1 of the former. But I have no way of knowing...this is just an estimate.




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