So you want to do PI?

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dresden doll
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby dresden doll » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:53 am

txpasley wrote:Is there anyone on here who does civil liberties work? Obviously, anyone who knows about the ACLU would be helpful, but I'm also curious about less high-profile organizations who do similar things.


ACLU is one of our sister organizations and we work together from time to time.

tiltedwindmill
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby tiltedwindmill » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:39 pm

txpasley wrote:Is there anyone on here who does civil liberties work? Obviously, anyone who knows about the ACLU would be helpful, but I'm also curious about less high-profile organizations who do similar things.

Also, this has been a very helpful, and encouraging, thread for me as a current applicant. What would be the chances of turning some of the info in this thread into a TLS main page article? Unless I'm missing something, there's not really anything in the way of an "aspiring PI lawyers guide to law school."


The Center for Constitutional Rights, might be an option.

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midwest17
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby midwest17 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:42 pm

0L question: assuming I can land a PD job, what is a reasonable estimate for starting salary, and progression up to the 10 year mark? I want to be able to run some numbers to compare scholarships and LRAP programs, but so much depends on salary that it's hard to do.

ETA: Or is there a reputable source that would have data? Google turns up a bunch of things, but none that look reliable.

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:45 pm

midwest17 wrote:0L question: assuming I can land a PD job, what is a reasonable estimate for starting salary, and progression up to the 10 year mark? I want to be able to run some numbers to compare scholarships and LRAP programs, but so much depends on salary that it's hard to do.


Look up the starting and average salaries for the city you'd like to work in. They vary considerably.

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midwest17
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby midwest17 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:46 pm

worldtraveler wrote:
midwest17 wrote:0L question: assuming I can land a PD job, what is a reasonable estimate for starting salary, and progression up to the 10 year mark? I want to be able to run some numbers to compare scholarships and LRAP programs, but so much depends on salary that it's hard to do.


Look up the starting and average salaries for the city you'd like to work in. They vary considerably.


Ok. I'm very flexible in terms of location, though.

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spleenworship
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:51 pm

midwest17 wrote:0L question: assuming I can land a PD job, what is a reasonable estimate for starting salary, and progression up to the 10 year mark? I want to be able to run some numbers to compare scholarships and LRAP programs, but so much depends on salary that it's hard to do.

ETA: Or is there a reputable source that would have data? Google turns up a bunch of things, but none that look reliable.


Obviously depends on where you live. Anywhere between 35-55k to start, usually about 45k.

After ten years, depending on position, anywhere from $55-85k.

Source: a lot of time spent looking at PD jobs and four years on this board.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:53 pm

spleenworship wrote:
midwest17 wrote:0L question: assuming I can land a PD job, what is a reasonable estimate for starting salary, and progression up to the 10 year mark? I want to be able to run some numbers to compare scholarships and LRAP programs, but so much depends on salary that it's hard to do.

ETA: Or is there a reputable source that would have data? Google turns up a bunch of things, but none that look reliable.


Obviously depends on where you live. Anywhere between 35-55k to start, usually about 45k.

After ten years, depending on position, anywhere from $55-85k.

Source: a lot of time spent looking at PD jobs and four years on this board.


what is the salary trajectory of civil legal aid in large cities (i.e. Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.)?

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:56 pm

http://justicecorps.org/fellowship/

Posting this here and in the vale. 3Ls, apply now. Deadline is March 1st. First year for this fellowship and only taking 3Ls and clerks.

Also, screw them for not allowing apps from recent grads who are not clerks.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:59 pm

also, debating whether i should keep a 1 page resume at 9/10 pt. font or a 2 pager at 12 pt. font. i only finished UG in 2010, so i'm worried that having a 2 pager will be seen as "arrogant", as folks on other threads suggest.

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spleenworship
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:14 pm

worldtraveler wrote:http://justicecorps.org/fellowship/

Posting this here and in the vale. 3Ls, apply now. Deadline is March 1st. First year for this fellowship and only taking 3Ls and clerks.

Also, screw them for not allowing apps from recent grads who are not clerks.


I'm assuming they want someone who either a) has immigration/crimigation classes and externships OR speaks another language fluently. I have only a touch of crimigation experience, so I'm guessing I wouldn't be competitive.

BlueLotus wrote:also, debating whether i should keep a 1 page resume at 9/10 pt. font or a 2 pager at 12 pt. font. i only finished UG in 2010, so i'm worried that having a 2 pager will be seen as "arrogant", as folks on other threads suggest.


1 page 10 pt IMO.

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twenty
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:28 pm

Spleen, you got AF, didn't you?

Edit for follow-up: What'd your resume look like? What would have you done differently?

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Pleasye
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby Pleasye » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:29 pm

BlueLotus wrote:what is the salary trajectory of civil legal aid in large cities (i.e. Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.)?

You didn't put LA in your parentheses but it's about 35-55k here.

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midwest17
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby midwest17 » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:33 pm

spleenworship wrote:
midwest17 wrote:0L question: assuming I can land a PD job, what is a reasonable estimate for starting salary, and progression up to the 10 year mark? I want to be able to run some numbers to compare scholarships and LRAP programs, but so much depends on salary that it's hard to do.

ETA: Or is there a reputable source that would have data? Google turns up a bunch of things, but none that look reliable.


Obviously depends on where you live. Anywhere between 35-55k to start, usually about 45k.

After ten years, depending on position, anywhere from $55-85k.

Source: a lot of time spent looking at PD jobs and four years on this board.


Thanks!

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spleenworship
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby spleenworship » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:34 pm

twenty wrote:Spleen, you got AF, didn't you?

Edit for follow-up: What'd your resume look like? What would have you done differently?


Got AF. Need up to 6 waivers, however, and recently for the news I might have mild kidney failure. Doc says I don't have to worry at all, but I'm doubting the AF will see it that way. So I'm interviewing for PD jobs as back up.

And differently? I would've done mock trial in retrospect. And worked out more.

ETA: also, I had a lot bar, trial, and crim classes. Multiple internship and externships in crim (PDs and USA) and clerk jobs (personal injury).
Last edited by spleenworship on Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:39 pm

Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:what is the salary trajectory of civil legal aid in large cities (i.e. Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.)?

You didn't put LA in your parentheses but it's about 35-55k here.


Tops out at only 55K in LA? color me surprised!

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Pleasye
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby Pleasye » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:44 pm

BlueLotus wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:what is the salary trajectory of civil legal aid in large cities (i.e. Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.)?

You didn't put LA in your parentheses but it's about 35-55k here.


Tops out at only 55K in LA? color me surprised!

I worked for one of the biggest (if not the biggest?) here was told that they start at 55K which is much higher than most. To be clear, that is the range of starting salaries.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:46 pm

Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:
Pleasye wrote:
BlueLotus wrote:what is the salary trajectory of civil legal aid in large cities (i.e. Boston, NYC, Philly, etc.)?

You didn't put LA in your parentheses but it's about 35-55k here.


Tops out at only 55K in LA? color me surprised!

I worked for one of the biggest (if not the biggest?) here was told that they start at 55K which is much higher than most. To be clear, that is the range of starting salaries.


got it. i thought you meant they start at $35K and top out at $55K.

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Pleasye
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby Pleasye » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:46 pm

BlueLotus wrote:got it. i thought you meant they start at $35K and top out at $55K.

That was my bad, I misread your original question.

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twenty
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby twenty » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:53 pm

I personally know people in legal aid non-profits that make 120k+ a year, but they're also more executives/managers rather than attorneys. It's a weird field that way. There are people that have been content to be direct legal services for 10-15 years, and then there are people that want to start their own legal aid organization after two weeks on the job.

BigZuck
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:58 pm

I have read through about 1/3 of the thread so far (Thanks Twenty!) so maybe this has been covered or there is a more appropriate thread that I can be pointed to, but:

What should we expect during interviews for 1L summer internships? Do we need to be able to show great commitment for each individual cause? I have a bunch of interviews this week during a sort of PI OCI thing my school does and just wondering what I should do to prepare. I am legitimately excited by the possibility of doing a PI job my 1st summer (and perhaps beyond) but I didn't come in to law school with super defined career goals or anything on my resume that screams PI.

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dresden doll
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby dresden doll » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:45 am

twenty wrote:I personally know people in legal aid non-profits that make 120k+ a year, but they're also more executives/managers rather than attorneys. It's a weird field that way. There are people that have been content to be direct legal services for 10-15 years, and then there are people that want to start their own legal aid organization after two weeks on the job.


You can get up to over 100k at my organization at a staff attorney, but you have to work there for a really long, long, long time.

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Thu Jan 30, 2014 10:59 am

BigZuck wrote:I have read through about 1/3 of the thread so far (Thanks Twenty!) so maybe this has been covered or there is a more appropriate thread that I can be pointed to, but:

What should we expect during interviews for 1L summer internships? Do we need to be able to show great commitment for each individual cause? I have a bunch of interviews this week during a sort of PI OCI thing my school does and just wondering what I should do to prepare. I am legitimately excited by the possibility of doing a PI job my 1st summer (and perhaps beyond) but I didn't come in to law school with super defined career goals or anything on my resume that screams PI.


Look into what the organization does and be able to talk about work they do that actually interests you, or why you want to work with a specific population.

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BlueLotus
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby BlueLotus » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:10 pm

I know this is putting the cart before the horse as I'm a 2L, but if you get an offer pre-bar, and fail the bar once, do PI employers give you another chance to take and pass it, or do you lose the position?

I'm asking b/c I may consider looking for jerbs in "hard" states (i.e. NY, CA)

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worldtraveler
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby worldtraveler » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:13 pm

BlueLotus wrote:I know this is putting the cart before the horse as I'm a 2L, but if you get an offer pre-bar, and fail the bar once, do PI employers give you another chance to take and pass it, or do you lose the position?

I'm asking b/c I may consider looking for jerbs in "hard" states (i.e. NY, CA)


I have never heard of someone losing a job, but it is a big problem because in a lot of places you are representing clients right away. If you fail the bar someone always has to supervise you.

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dresden doll
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Re: So you want to do PI?

Postby dresden doll » Fri Jan 31, 2014 9:17 pm

BlueLotus wrote:I know this is putting the cart before the horse as I'm a 2L, but if you get an offer pre-bar, and fail the bar once, do PI employers give you another chance to take and pass it, or do you lose the position?

I'm asking b/c I may consider looking for jerbs in "hard" states (i.e. NY, CA)


If you work for a policy-oriented organization that does as much, if not more, advocacy than it actually litigates, it won't be a big deal. However, if you work for a direct service provider, you're really going to inconvenience them. This isn't to say that they'll cut you lose - I doubt they would - but just beware that it's not an insignificant issue to them if they have to wait several additional months before you can start going to court.




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