Regional vs. Tier 1

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
chargers
Posts: 94
Joined: Mon Oct 28, 2013 1:33 pm

Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby chargers » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:39 pm

With my numbers I am projected to be accepted into some top 50 schools (applying to WUSTL, W&M, GWU, IU-Bloomington) and am a long shot at some higher-ranked ones that I am applying to like Vandy and Bama. I am also applying to UK,U of L, and Cincinnati--all three of which the numbers indicate I am a safe bet to get in to. My question is whether y'all think going to a more highly rated law school (say Vandy or WUSTL, if I were to get in) would really be more beneficial than going to somewhere like UK, U of L, or Cincy if I think that I want to practice law in the tri-state area (So. IN, So. OH, and KY)?

User avatar
hichvichwoh
Posts: 442
Joined: Fri Mar 16, 2012 11:21 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby hichvichwoh » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:52 pm

retake

User avatar
kwais
Posts: 1683
Joined: Tue May 11, 2010 12:28 pm

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby kwais » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:55 pm

You didn't list any schools with national reach, so the answer is to attend a school in the region you want to practice that gives you a substantial scholarship. That or retake.

User avatar
jk148706
Posts: 2499
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby jk148706 » Thu Nov 21, 2013 10:48 pm

Retake

User avatar
Ron Mexico
Posts: 13535
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby Ron Mexico » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:00 pm

Those are all regional schools.

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby hephaestus » Thu Nov 21, 2013 11:04 pm

hichvichwoh wrote:retake

californiauser
Posts: 1183
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 1:10 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby californiauser » Fri Nov 22, 2013 12:50 am

Tier 1 is a completely useless distinction. Go to a school that places into the market you want to work.

User avatar
Ohiobumpkin
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:50 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby Ohiobumpkin » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:26 am

For Cincy, UC or OSU; for KY, UK; for IN, UI-B. For all of those mentioned, aim for substantial scholarships. I would not recommend trying to break into Cincinnati market without significant ties to the greater Cincinnati region/ Southern Ohio. It is a very insular market in which where you went to high school is more important than which law school you went to. I think what you really need to answer is where do you want to practice law. Tri-state area (northern KY, southern IN, and southern OH) is not, as far as legal employment is concerned, a singular legal labor market.

User avatar
jk148706
Posts: 2499
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby jk148706 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:31 am

Ohiobumpkin wrote:For Cincy, UC or OSU; for KY, UK; for IN, UI-B. For all of those mentioned, aim for substantial scholarships. I would not recommend trying to break into Cincinnati market without significant ties to the greater Cincinnati region/ Southern Ohio. It is a very insular market in which where you went to high school is more important than which law school you went to. I think what you really need to answer is where do you want to practice law. Tri-state area (northern KY, southern IN, and southern OH) is not, as far as legal employment is concerned, a singular legal labor market.


I'm not so sure about this. I had a discussion with an employee of Frost Brown Todd in Cincinnati who said they don't even look at UC grads. He said the MOST important thing is to go to the absolute best law school you can get in to. According to him, even in the Cincy area, firms recruit only from top schools.

Nothing he said made me believe that where you go to law school doesn't matter.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 10:57 am

jk148706 wrote:I'm not so sure about this. I had a discussion with an employee of Frost Brown Todd in Cincinnati who said they don't even look at UC grads.


Yeah that person (was it even a lawyer?) doesn't know how to use the search function on the firm's website.

http://www.frostbrowntodd.com/professio ... ml?results

User avatar
jk148706
Posts: 2499
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby jk148706 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 11:41 am

timbs4339 wrote:
jk148706 wrote:I'm not so sure about this. I had a discussion with an employee of Frost Brown Todd in Cincinnati who said they don't even look at UC grads.


Yeah that person (was it even a lawyer?) doesn't know how to use the search function on the firm's website.

http://www.frostbrowntodd.com/professio ... ml?results


Of all the attorneys with a JD from UC at this firm only FOUR have graduated/ been hired within the last three years. All graduated near the top if he class or on law review and one had a Harvard undergrad degree.

Of course there are a lot of attorneys from lower-ranked schools working at good firms. Many of them were hired when the economy was rolling along and there seemed to be no end in sight. That is not the point. The issue is WHEN did those people get hired? Firms are less and less likely to hire from TTs and TTTs. Sure, you might get a job somewhere, but your chances increase if you go to a better school.

So, I think you missed the point.

Also, why belittle a guy who suggested that I go to the best school I can get in to? Pretty much universally considered good advice, no?

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:09 pm

jk148706 wrote:Of all the attorneys with a JD from UC at this firm only FOUR have graduated/ been hired within the last three years. All graduated near the top if he class or on law review and one had a Harvard undergrad degree.


The fact that "four have graduated within the last three years" doesn't mean what you think it does. The Cincy office of that firm has had a summer class of 3, 5, and 3 the last three years. Two of the four associates from UC are class of 2012, meaning they summered in 2011, meaning that 66% of that firm's summer class that year was from the local school. The idea that they "don't look at students from UC" is not only inaccurate, it appears to be wildly so.

http://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_p ... hCondJSON={%22SearchEmployerName%22%3A%22frost%22}

UC also has a 10% large firm score. Not very good, but not "nobody ever gets hired at a large firm": http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=cincinnati

jk148706 wrote:Of course there are a lot of attorneys from lower-ranked schools working at good firms. Many of them were hired when the economy was rolling along and there seemed to be no end in sight. That is not the point. The issue is WHEN did those people get hired? Firms are less and less likely to hire from TTs and TTTs. Sure, you might get a job somewhere, but your chances increase if you go to a better school.


jk148706 wrote:Also, why belittle a guy who suggested that I go to the best school I can get in to? Pretty much universally considered good advice, no?


Because it is terrible advice in most circumstances, as has been repeated over and over again on this forum. Would it be stupid to turn down HLS for a full ride at UCincy if you want to work Cincy biglaw? Probably. Would it be a good idea to plop down 250K for GW (a TIER 1 SCHOOL OMFG SO PRESTIGIOUS) over UCincy at a full ride? Hell no. That FBT is not hiring many people from UC does not mean they don't "respect" UC, it means there are no jobs to go around.

To repeat again: if you want to work biglaw, don't go to either GW (TIER 1 SCHOOL OMFG SO PRESTIGIOUS) or UC. Retake until you get a good enough LSAT to go T14. If you just want any legal job in Ohio, go to UC with a full ride over GW (TIER 1 SCHOOL OMFG SO PRESTIGIOUS) at sticker.

jk148706 wrote:So, I think you missed the point.


No, you're reading too much into what one guy said and didn't bother to do even a modicum of independent research. Fortunately, that doesn't make you an idiot, it just makes you a 0L.

User avatar
jk148706
Posts: 2499
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby jk148706 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:17 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
To repeat again: if you want to work biglaw, don't go to either GW (TIER 1 SCHOOL OMFG SO PRESTIGIOUS) or UC. Retake until you get a good enough LSAT to go T14. If you just want any legal job in Ohio, go to UC with a full ride over GW (TIER 1 SCHOOL OMFG SO PRESTIGIOUS) at sticker.



Yeah. I'm in total agreement here. Nothing wrong with Cincy if you want to work there and get $$$.

My point was that big firms are looking less at grads from schools like UC (based on what I was told). It is true that fewer grads are getting work, no? I think the person I talked to employed hyperbole to make a point.

But legit question: if OP retook and could get into some t14 maybe with $ would u recommend that or Cincy/OSU with $$$ (biglaw career goals in oh, Ky, in)???

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Nov 22, 2013 1:53 pm

jk148706 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
To repeat again: if you want to work biglaw, don't go to either GW (TIER 1 SCHOOL OMFG SO PRESTIGIOUS) or UC. Retake until you get a good enough LSAT to go T14. If you just want any legal job in Ohio, go to UC with a full ride over GW (TIER 1 SCHOOL OMFG SO PRESTIGIOUS) at sticker.



Yeah. I'm in total agreement here. Nothing wrong with Cincy if you want to work there and get $$$.

My point was that big firms are looking less at grads from schools like UC (based on what I was told). It is true that fewer grads are getting work, no? I think the person I talked to employed hyperbole to make a point.

But legit question: if OP retook and could get into some t14 maybe with $ would u recommend that or Cincy/OSU with $$$ (biglaw career goals in oh, Ky, in)???


That's true, but that doesn't mean that they are looking at "Tier 1" grads in large numbers enough to make turning down $$$ at the TT worth it. Raw job placement stats without any other context should not be the only consideration. As for the idea that a local school won't place in local biglaw or midlaw is usually wrong.

User avatar
MistakenGenius
Posts: 825
Joined: Sun Jul 28, 2013 9:18 pm

Post removed.

Postby MistakenGenius » Fri Nov 22, 2013 2:34 pm

Post removed.
Last edited by MistakenGenius on Sun Dec 13, 2015 9:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Ohiobumpkin
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:50 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby Ohiobumpkin » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:05 pm

You did not specify big law or federal clerkship in your original post, hence why I recommended attending whatever the local schools were for each designated market. If big law or fed clerkship is your thing, best to go to the highest rated school for the best price possible. However, never bet on getting big law or fed clerkship outside of the top 3-6 schools. Also, FBT is not the only big law in Cincy.

User avatar
Nova
Posts: 9116
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 8:55 pm

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby Nova » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:09 pm

Ron Mexico wrote:Those are all regional schools.

User avatar
jk148706
Posts: 2499
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 11:14 am

Re: Regional vs. Tier 1

Postby jk148706 » Sun Nov 24, 2013 10:30 pm

Ohiobumpkin wrote:You did not specify big law or federal clerkship in your original post, hence why I recommended attending whatever the local schools were for each designated market. If big law or fed clerkship is your thing, best to go to the highest rated school for the best price possible. However, never bet on getting big law or fed clerkship outside of the top 3-6 schools. Also, FBT is not the only big law in Cincy.


Yes, agreed with all this




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Earlskies, freekick, jingosaur and 10 guests