Georgetown sticker

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Blackjack45
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Georgetown sticker

Postby Blackjack45 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:56 am

So I cast a wide net sending an application to all the T14. (Along with all the random other schools I picked). I didn't think that I was going to get any cash or money; honestly I thought my stats sucked.

the low Tier 1 schools and Tier 2 schools are begging me to go with $$$. And I just got my letter from Georgetown.

165, 3.2 AA Male. If it is Georgetown @ sticker, should I go? (Say as opposed to UF/FSU**, or UG/Emory with $$$)

**in state

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Winston1984
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby Winston1984 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:08 pm

Hard to answer if we don't know your goals and financial situation.

NanaP
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby NanaP » Sat Nov 09, 2013 12:10 pm

Blackjack45 wrote:So I cast a wide net sending an application to all the T14. (Along with all the random other schools I picked). I didn't think that I was going to get any cash or money; honestly I thought my stats sucked.

the low Tier 1 schools and Tier 2 schools are begging me to go with $$$. And I just got my letter from Georgetown.

165, 3.2 AA Male. If it is Georgetown @ sticker, should I go? (Say as opposed to UF/FSU**, or UG/Emory with $$$)

**in state



If it's your only option I would. I'm sure Cornell will throw some money your way if you get in, and you could use that as a bargaining chip.....

Blackjack45
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby Blackjack45 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:29 pm

Winston1984 wrote:Hard to answer if we don't know your goals and financial situation.



As for financial situation... I don't have one. I will have zero money going in. Undergrad was 100% covered by scholarships and grants. So this will hopefully be need based assistance and scholarships etc.

Goals... Well I have a techy background so I guess Patent Law is the natural choice. My undergrad stuff (Mathematical Biology) is enough to take the patent bar upon graduating. I haven't yet looked into which schools would be best for that though. Other than that, I'm not picky... something lucrative though.

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cotiger
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby cotiger » Sat Nov 09, 2013 3:49 pm

Blackjack45 wrote:
Winston1984 wrote:Hard to answer if we don't know your goals and financial situation.



As for financial situation... I don't have one. I will have zero money going in. Undergrad was 100% covered by scholarships and grants. So this will hopefully be need based assistance and scholarships etc.

Goals... Well I have a techy background so I guess Patent Law is the natural choice. My undergrad stuff (Mathematical Biology) is enough to take the patent bar upon graduating. I haven't yet looked into which schools would be best for that though. Other than that, I'm not picky... something lucrative though.


If you're looking for something lucrative (ie biglaw), GULC at sticker is not going to be a great option. It might be worth it if you were super committed to Gov/PI work and could use their LRAP, but that doesn't sound like your situation.

Someone mentioned Cornell. If you can get in there, that is going to be much better for your goals than GULC.

Edit: I just looked up your numbers on LSN. You have a shot at like Cornell, Duke, Michigan, NYU, to name a few. Any of those are going to be better than GULC. With multiple acceptances, you might even get money out of some of them.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby rickgrimes69 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 5:05 pm

Assuming you're financing this with debt, I can't think of a scenario where going to GULC at sticker is a good idea.

Blackjack45
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby Blackjack45 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:33 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:Assuming you're financing this with debt, I can't think of a scenario where going to GULC at sticker is a good idea.



Is that to suggest that I shouldn't go to law school at all? Or are you saying I should choose a significantly worse school with $$$ over a t14 (albeit Georgetown) at sticker?

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jselson
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby jselson » Sun Nov 10, 2013 10:44 am

Just want to remind folks that a patent-eligible URM is going to have a significantly easier time finding employment than others after law school.

OP, wait til all your options come in to think about where to go, you have months and months to decide.

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nickb285
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby nickb285 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:17 pm

I'm a GULC 1L and I wouldn't have come here at sticker. GULC is a good school, despite the hate it gets on TLS, but it's not worth sticker unless you have connections at either a biglaw firm or an LRAP-eligible organization. They're open to negotiation though, so keep that in mind.

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Dr.Zer0
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby Dr.Zer0 » Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:21 pm

jselson wrote:Just want to remind folks that a patent-eligible URM is going to have a significantly easier time finding employment than others after law school.

OP, wait til all your options come in to think about where to go, you have months and months to decide.


This. OP your 165 will get you far. What other t-14 schools did you apply to?

Also take a look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=195443

Blackjack45
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby Blackjack45 » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:14 pm

Dr.Zer0 wrote:This. OP your 165 will get you far. What other t-14 schools did you apply to?

Also take a look at this thread: viewtopic.php?f=14&t=195443


Oooh, love the statistics approach. I applied to all of them except yale and stanford because I figured they were out reach (gpa).

Thanks to everybody for your posts. It has really put me at ease, I thought I was aiming for top 30 or top 40, but now I see that I'm heading to high places!! !!!!!!

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hephaestus
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby hephaestus » Mon Nov 11, 2013 1:35 pm

Blackjack45 wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:Assuming you're financing this with debt, I can't think of a scenario where going to GULC at sticker is a good idea.



Is that to suggest that I shouldn't go to law school at all? Or are you saying I should choose a significantly worse school with $$$ over a t14 (albeit Georgetown) at sticker?

I think you stand a decent chance at money at Cornell. I think you will likely get into a few other of the lower T14 as well. I would take any of those over GULC.

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twenty
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby twenty » Mon Nov 11, 2013 2:03 pm

If you're patent eligible, GULC at sticker isn't a bad idea, it's just not a great idea. Cornell, even at sticker, is a way better option.

That said, if you don't really like the idea of working in biglaw for 4-5 years to finance your debt, don't do that either.

NotHereMuch
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby NotHereMuch » Tue Nov 12, 2013 2:24 am

You need to push Georgetown to give you money. I know of an URM who went from $0 to over $20,000 a year just because he asked (he also had some other options ... but it sounds like you do, too). Tell them you want to go, but you just can't justify the finances, especially with other schools offering you money. See what they say.

hashashin
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby hashashin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:07 am

Also a GULC 1L, also patent eligible, but going here on a substantial scholly.

First, please realize that most of the conventional squawking here derives from data from the class of 2011 and 2012 (i.e. from EIWs that occurred, respectively, FOUR and THREE years ago!). The class of 2011, of course, was abysmal for pretty much every school in the T14. For the class of 2012, the numbers on LST's score reports would indicate that GULC had ~40% in biglaw, 3.7% in Clerkships, and 26% in Public Sector FTLT positions: EVEN IF we say that 13% (HALF) of those public sector positions were desirable outcomes (this is a VERY conservative estimate, considering that this is FUCKING georgetown, and our relationship with the feds is pretty legit), that would mean that 60% of people EVEN in the class of 2012 had perfectly desirable outcomes; Georgetown's PI and GOVERNMENT focus makes it SIGNIFICANTLY different from the rest of the schools in the lower T14; so the most simplistic analysis, of just taking Biglaw and adding Clerkship percentages to it, just does not give you a very accurate measurement of GULC's placement power. I'm also not sure what the hell people mean when they state (IN THE SAME SENTENCE) that Georgetown has FAR BETTER Gov/PI placement than the DCNG tier, and THEN say that, GEE, its Biglaw placement is lower than that of peer schools, as if the latter number would be unaffected by the DROVES of people who come here to do Public Sector work in the first place. The grade cutoffs, moreover, for getting hired into Biglaw are EXACTLY the same for Cornell, GULC, Duke and Northwestern (just have OCS SHOW you, as I did, the cutoffs from FAll 2012 and onwards); this would suggest that it really is not that much harder to secure Biglaw from GULC than it is from the rest of DCNG. The SALARY data, moreover, for GULC grads shows that AT LEAST 51% of the 2012 class was making six figures DESPITE their supposedly deficient biglaw placement (http://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ocs/upload/2012-ABA-Employment-Summary-6-5.pdf); the corresponding percentage for NU grads was 56% (with 98% of respondents in the private sector reporting). Here's another thread that breaks this down: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=213584

Second, I am not sure whether nickb (the other GULC 1L) has consulted OCS' preliminary numbers for Biglaw associateships for the class of 2013, but raw OCS data has a little more than HALF the entire class getting Biglaw.

Whether or not you choose to pay sticker here is up to you; but PLEASE DO NOT base your decision on any fictitious difference between GULC and the rest of the lower T14.

IF you are willing to pay sticker for Cornell or NU, then you SHOULD BE WILLING to do so for GULC; since the class of 2013, GULC has really NOT been any more risky.
Last edited by hashashin on Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

hashashin
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby hashashin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:13 am

Best solution would be wait until official Class of 2013 stats come out for your perusal; at that point, you can make an informed judgment about which school you wish to pick (Assuming you have T14 options in the first place).

hashashin
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby hashashin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 5:30 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:Assuming you're financing this with debt, I can't think of a scenario where going to GULC at sticker is a good idea.


Strive hard (even going by c/o 2012 stats) to get to median-top 40%, get NY Biglaw, OR (failing to get to median) ride out dat LRAP by getting job with one of the THOUSANDS of GULC alum-chaired PI orgs in DC?

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Clearly
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby Clearly » Wed Nov 13, 2013 7:09 am

You guys are nuts. OP doesn't play by our rules here. Patent bar eligible URM is a slam dunk from any reasonable school.

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cotiger
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby cotiger » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:27 am

hashashin wrote:Also a GULC 1L, also patent eligible (was software eng at F50), but going here on a substantial scholly.

First, please realize that most of the conventional squawking here derives from data from the class of 2011 and 2012 (i.e. from EIWs that occurred, respectively, FOUR and THREE years ago!). The class of 2011, of course, was abysmal for pretty much every school in the T14. For the class of 2012, the numbers on LST's score reports would indicate that GULC had ~40% in biglaw, 3.7% in Clerkships, and 26% in Public Sector FTLT positions: EVEN IF we say that 13% (HALF) of those public sector positions were desirable outcomes (this is a VERY conservative estimate, considering that this is FUCKING georgetown, and our relationship with the feds is pretty legit), that would mean that 60% of people EVEN in the class of 2012 had perfectly desirable outcomes; Georgetown's PI and GOVERNMENT focus makes it SIGNIFICANTLY different from the rest of the schools in the lower T14; so the most simplistic analysis, of just taking Biglaw and adding Clerkship percentages to it, just does not give you a very accurate measurement of GULC's placement power. I'm also not sure what the hell people mean when they state (IN THE SAME SENTENCE) that Georgetown has FAR BETTER Gov/PI placement than the DCNG tier, and THEN say that, GEE, its Biglaw placement is lower than that of peer schools, as if the latter number would be unaffected by the DROVES of people who come here to do Public Sector work in the first place. The grade cutoffs, moreover, for getting hired into Biglaw are EXACTLY the same for Cornell, GULC, Duke and Northwestern (just have OCS SHOW you, as I did, the cutoffs from FAll 2012 and onwards); this would suggest that it really is not that much harder to secure Biglaw from GULC than it is from the rest of DCNG. The SALARY data, moreover, for GULC grads shows that AT LEAST 51% of the 2012 class was making six figures DESPITE their supposedly deficient biglaw placement (http://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ocs/upload/2012-ABA-Employment-Summary-6-5.pdf); the corresponding percentage for NU grads was 56% (with 98% of respondents in the private sector reporting). Here's another thread that breaks this down: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=213584

Second, I am not sure whether nickb (the other GULC 1L) has consulted OCS' preliminary numbers for Biglaw associateships for the class of 2013, but raw OCS data has a little more than HALF the entire class getting Biglaw.

Whether or not you choose to pay sticker here is up to you; but PLEASE DO NOT base your decision on any fictitious difference between GULC and the rest of the lower T14.

IF you are willing to pay sticker for Cornell or NU, then you SHOULD BE WILLING to do so for GULC; since the class of 2013, GULC has really NOT been any more risky.


The problem with this assertion is that even if you consider all of GULC's Gov/PI stuff as super awesome, they still come in behind the lowest performing other schools of the T14.

Here is a thread about that: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=219104#p7216961

This is not to say that GULC is a bad school, or that it wouldn't work for OP (especially considering the patent-eligible URM thing), but GULC absolutely does have worse overall placement than the rest of the T14.

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rickgrimes69
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby rickgrimes69 » Wed Nov 13, 2013 10:47 am

hashashin wrote:this would suggest that it really is not that much harder to secure Biglaw from GULC than it is from the rest of DCNG.


lol at your entire post but especially this part

hashashin
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby hashashin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:27 am

cotiger wrote:
hashashin wrote:Also a GULC 1L, also patent eligible (was software eng at F50), but going here on a substantial scholly.

First, please realize that most of the conventional squawking here derives from data from the class of 2011 and 2012 (i.e. from EIWs that occurred, respectively, FOUR and THREE years ago!). The class of 2011, of course, was abysmal for pretty much every school in the T14. For the class of 2012, the numbers on LST's score reports would indicate that GULC had ~40% in biglaw, 3.7% in Clerkships, and 26% in Public Sector FTLT positions: EVEN IF we say that 13% (HALF) of those public sector positions were desirable outcomes (this is a VERY conservative estimate, considering that this is FUCKING georgetown, and our relationship with the feds is pretty legit), that would mean that 60% of people EVEN in the class of 2012 had perfectly desirable outcomes; Georgetown's PI and GOVERNMENT focus makes it SIGNIFICANTLY different from the rest of the schools in the lower T14; so the most simplistic analysis, of just taking Biglaw and adding Clerkship percentages to it, just does not give you a very accurate measurement of GULC's placement power. I'm also not sure what the hell people mean when they state (IN THE SAME SENTENCE) that Georgetown has FAR BETTER Gov/PI placement than the DCNG tier, and THEN say that, GEE, its Biglaw placement is lower than that of peer schools, as if the latter number would be unaffected by the DROVES of people who come here to do Public Sector work in the first place. The grade cutoffs, moreover, for getting hired into Biglaw are EXACTLY the same for Cornell, GULC, Duke and Northwestern (just have OCS SHOW you, as I did, the cutoffs from FAll 2012 and onwards); this would suggest that it really is not that much harder to secure Biglaw from GULC than it is from the rest of DCNG. The SALARY data, moreover, for GULC grads shows that AT LEAST 51% of the 2012 class was making six figures DESPITE their supposedly deficient biglaw placement (http://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ocs/upload/2012-ABA-Employment-Summary-6-5.pdf); the corresponding percentage for NU grads was 56% (with 98% of respondents in the private sector reporting). Here's another thread that breaks this down: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=213584

Second, I am not sure whether nickb (the other GULC 1L) has consulted OCS' preliminary numbers for Biglaw associateships for the class of 2013, but raw OCS data has a little more than HALF the entire class getting Biglaw.

Whether or not you choose to pay sticker here is up to you; but PLEASE DO NOT base your decision on any fictitious difference between GULC and the rest of the lower T14.

IF you are willing to pay sticker for Cornell or NU, then you SHOULD BE WILLING to do so for GULC; since the class of 2013, GULC has really NOT been any more risky.


The problem with this assertion is that even if you consider all of GULC's Gov/PI stuff as super awesome, they still come in behind the lowest performing other schools of the T14.

Here is a thread about that: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=219104#p7216961

This is not to say that GULC is a bad school, or that it wouldn't work for OP (especially considering the patent-eligible URM thing), but GULC absolutely does have worse overall placement than the rest of the T14.



Yeah? For the c/o 2012 you actually have Cornell and NU and GULC showing up as 85 % EACH (Your AVERAGE has GULC about TWO PERCENT behind Cornell); why is this a significant difference?

Northwestern: 85, 85 -> avg: 85
Cornell: 76, 85 -> avg: 81
Georgetown: 72, 85 -> avg: 79

GULC's enormous class size hurt it significantly more than other schools during the class of 2011. So yeah, no shit 2011 #s were somewhat lower (again, by 4% in comparison with Cornell).
Last edited by hashashin on Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

hashashin
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby hashashin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:29 am

rickgrimes69 wrote:
hashashin wrote:this would suggest that it really is not that much harder to secure Biglaw from GULC than it is from the rest of DCNG.


lol at your entire post but especially this part


Awww, that's cute...the troglodyte with a 169 LSAT thinks he's elite...

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stillwater
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby stillwater » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:30 am

DON'T GO TO GULCTTTT at sticker!!!!

hashashin
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby hashashin » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:30 am

hashashin wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
hashashin wrote:this would suggest that it really is not that much harder to secure Biglaw from GULC than it is from the rest of DCNG.


lol at your entire post but especially this part


Awww, that's cute...the troglodyte with a 169 LSAT thinks he's elite...


Also, could you show us the firm for which DOOK grads have a lower grade cutoff than GULC grads do?

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stillwater
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Re: Georgetown sticker

Postby stillwater » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:36 am

hashashin wrote:
hashashin wrote:
rickgrimes69 wrote:
hashashin wrote:this would suggest that it really is not that much harder to secure Biglaw from GULC than it is from the rest of DCNG.


lol at your entire post but especially this part


Awww, that's cute...the troglodyte with a 169 LSAT thinks he's elite...


Also, could you show us the firm for which DOOK grads have a lower grade cutoff than GULC grads do?


your GULC cheerleading is a little overbearing.




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