Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

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HYSenberg
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Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby HYSenberg » Fri Nov 08, 2013 7:52 pm

Apart from HYS and UT, which other schools place well in Texas and offer a reasonable chance of high paying legal jobs in the state? What about Austin in particular?

gchatbrah
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby gchatbrah » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:09 pm

HYSenberg wrote:Apart from HYS and UT, which other schools place well in Texas and offer a reasonable chance of high paying legal jobs in the state? What about Austin in particular?


Chicago seems to do a good job with 1Ls and 2Ls with Texas ties. The Fed Soc connection tends to be helpful as well.

nebula666
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby nebula666 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:12 pm

UVA also places more into TX than any other state except DC, NY and VA.

envisciguy
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby envisciguy » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:06 am

nebula666 wrote:UVA also places more into TX than any other state except DC, NY and VA.


+1. UVA has a good number of people from Texas and all the people I know from Texas have been able to get back there for big law. I also know of people (myself included) with tenuous ties to TX that were able to get there from UVA.

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2014
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby 2014 » Sat Nov 09, 2013 11:03 pm

UChi kills it in Texas

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aldiddy
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby aldiddy » Wed Nov 20, 2013 1:53 pm

How about Duke? Looking for the answer to the same question

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby Stringer Bell » Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:08 pm

As of a few years ago, Harvard had the most Texas offices come to OCI and UVA was second. So from that perspective, you probably have the opportunity to interview with more Texas firms if you go to UVA. Although, many of the T14's participate in job fairs that give their students an opportunity to get in front of Texas firms. The flip is that more students at UVA are going for Texas, so it actually may be easier somewhere like Columbia where you are competing against less students going for spots in the same market.

I really have no idea how much further into the class firms will dip at each t14. I imagine it's pretty similar outside of HYS, but it wouldn't shock me if a couple of firms like V&E went a little deeper at CC.

TLDR: It probably doesn't matter that much, but maybe UVA and CC provide a little advantage. I would avoid Cornell, though.

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romanticegotist
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby romanticegotist » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:10 pm

Austin in particular is really tough for everyone b/c it's actually pretty small, especially if you aren't doing IP. Source: am at UT.

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sinfiery
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby sinfiery » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:46 am

Stringer Bell wrote:As of a few years ago, Harvard had the most Texas offices come to OCI and UVA was second. So from that perspective, you probably have the opportunity to interview with more Texas firms if you go to UVA. Although, many of the T14's participate in job fairs that give their students an opportunity to get in front of Texas firms. The flip is that more students at UVA are going for Texas, so it actually may be easier somewhere like Columbia where you are competing against less students going for spots in the same market.

I really have no idea how much further into the class firms will dip at each t14. I imagine it's pretty similar outside of HYS, but it wouldn't shock me if a couple of firms like V&E went a little deeper at CC.

TLDR: It probably doesn't matter that much, but maybe UVA and CC provide a little advantage. I would avoid Cornell, though.

Does NYU fail in TX? :(

BigZuck
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby BigZuck » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:15 am

sinfiery wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:As of a few years ago, Harvard had the most Texas offices come to OCI and UVA was second. So from that perspective, you probably have the opportunity to interview with more Texas firms if you go to UVA. Although, many of the T14's participate in job fairs that give their students an opportunity to get in front of Texas firms. The flip is that more students at UVA are going for Texas, so it actually may be easier somewhere like Columbia where you are competing against less students going for spots in the same market.

I really have no idea how much further into the class firms will dip at each t14. I imagine it's pretty similar outside of HYS, but it wouldn't shock me if a couple of firms like V&E went a little deeper at CC.

TLDR: It probably doesn't matter that much, but maybe UVA and CC provide a little advantage. I would avoid Cornell, though.

Does NYU fail in TX? :(


HYS
CCP
MVB
DCGN(U)
N(YU)

OP: Austin big law is a mythical unicorn that you would be better served just pretending doesn't exist. What precious few spots are available are going to go to native Austonians with stellar grades that mere mortals like you and I are incapable of earning.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby Stringer Bell » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:27 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Stringer Bell wrote:As of a few years ago, Harvard had the most Texas offices come to OCI and UVA was second. So from that perspective, you probably have the opportunity to interview with more Texas firms if you go to UVA. Although, many of the T14's participate in job fairs that give their students an opportunity to get in front of Texas firms. The flip is that more students at UVA are going for Texas, so it actually may be easier somewhere like Columbia where you are competing against less students going for spots in the same market.

I really have no idea how much further into the class firms will dip at each t14. I imagine it's pretty similar outside of HYS, but it wouldn't shock me if a couple of firms like V&E went a little deeper at CC.

TLDR: It probably doesn't matter that much, but maybe UVA and CC provide a little advantage. I would avoid Cornell, though.

Does NYU fail in TX? :(


People can get TX from NYU. Although, I think there is less of a pipeline (partially due to self-selection). Just based on what I know of the market, I also would be pretty surprised if there was much of a reputational boost for hiring purposes with NYU over somewhere like Duke. I'm not sure there is much of one with Columbia or Chicago. However, I wouldn't be shocked if there is one, especially with Columbia. I could be wrong, though. HYS definitely gets a reputational boost and every big TX firm and many top boutiques recruit from H.

If you are looking at NYU, or any other t14, with an eye for TX, check out the NALP directory and see what firms interview there. You also should ask students from those schools if there is a TX interview program. I know that Duke/GULC/UVA/NW have a joint program. Of course, you can also get interviews through mailing.

The only T14 that I would think "fails" in TX relative to its overall placement is Cornell. Very few firms recruit from there and there are very few grads working in the state.

Basically, someone wanting TX should look at the same things every one else does, namely cost and overall employment chances. After that, you would probably give a bit of a boost to UVA, maybe knock somewhere like NYU down a little, and knock Cornell way down.

longhorn89
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby longhorn89 » Tue Nov 26, 2013 7:28 pm

I think if you really want to stay in Austin, you pretty much have to go to UT law instead of a T14. The Austin offices of the major Texas firms interviewed very few people each at UT's OCI. I would ask the other schools you are looking at if the Austin offices even show up to their OCIs at all.

Full disclosure: I go to UT. I focused on the Austin market pretty exclusively during OCI and walked away with one Austin offer. Many of the people I knew who landed Austin gigs were either IP people or were married with kids so could pretty convincingly say that they don't want to have to move again.

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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby justinp » Wed Dec 04, 2013 11:35 pm

longhorn89 wrote:I think if you really want to stay in Austin, you pretty much have to go to UT law instead of a T14.


Depends on the T14, I think. HLS slays the Austin market. On the other hand I once clicked around the big 3 offices and didn't find anyone from SCCNP at any of them. And I think there was like one yalie.

Texas Biglaw generally is dominated by Harvard and UT, is the impression I got after interviewing around.

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PepperJack
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby PepperJack » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:48 am

You're going to be able to get Texas with good grades and ties to Texas from almost any top 14. If you have ties (even to neighboring states) then it's the easiest market to crack. Austin, though, is one of the hardest because of the relative dearth of positions and it's appeal to young people. I would follow the $, and think about other markets too such as Houston and Dallas.

It is misleading to generalize from any one school, because you can always get interviews in Texas mass mailing from a top 14 if you have ties and decent grades. School A may have better placement in Texas than School B, but it may also have 3x the amount of Texas residents.

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PepperJack
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby PepperJack » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:52 am

aldiddy wrote:How about Duke? Looking for the answer to the same question

Why don't you just ask for the lists of which firms came to OCI at all schools you're considering?

HYSenberg
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:09 pm

I figure this is an appropriate thread to post a related question given the feedback I've gotten on the difficulty of Austin jobs. Would a lower T14 > UT if I had the following priorities:

TX biglaw > Austin not biglaw > biglaw anywhere > not biglaw TX > not biglaw anywhere.

I'd be very happy with a govt job in Austin, but idk how hard those jobs are to get. I'd also be pretty happy with a TX SSC clerkship (or fed obv), but I wouldn't be satisfied with a clerkship lower than that or a firm with <25 attnys that's not a boutique.

BigZuck
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby BigZuck » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:40 pm

HYSenberg wrote:I figure this is an appropriate thread to post a related question given the feedback I've gotten on the difficulty of Austin jobs. Would a lower T14 > UT if I had the following priorities:

TX biglaw > Austin not biglaw > biglaw anywhere > not biglaw TX > not biglaw anywhere.

I'd be very happy with a govt job in Austin, but idk how hard those jobs are to get. I'd also be pretty happy with a TX SSC clerkship (or fed obv), but I wouldn't be satisfied with a clerkship lower than that or a firm with <25 attnys that's not a boutique.


I think it depends on how many >>>>>>> are in between those different categories. If big law anywhere else is really close to Austin non-big law, then I think the T14 is really a no brainer (disregarding cost).

I also think that considering clerkship opportunities as a 0L is kind of putting the cart way before the horse. Consider clerkship percentage as part of the "good job outcome" category alongside big law, sure, but I think it's kind of weird to think about where you want to clerk, etc. without even being in law school. Anyway if clerking is really the goal, then enjoy Yale (maybe Stanford or Harvard if you feel like slumming it).

I really don't want to sound like I'm crapping on UT all the time and I think there are definitely logical times to chose it over the T14 (obviously) but if you're purely looking at job placement, T14 is almost always going to trump UT. It's when geographical and financial and personal concerns get thrown into the mix that UT can make more sense.

HYSenberg
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:02 pm

I hear you. I was including the TX SSC clerkship because I was under the impression that those were easier to get than fed clerkships and biglaw, thus expanding the pool of "good jobs." I may be mistaken on this inference, however.

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Stringer Bell
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby Stringer Bell » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:22 pm

HYSenberg wrote:I figure this is an appropriate thread to post a related question given the feedback I've gotten on the difficulty of Austin jobs. Would a lower T14 > UT if I had the following priorities:

TX biglaw > Austin not biglaw > biglaw anywhere > not biglaw TX > not biglaw anywhere.

I'd be very happy with a govt job in Austin, but idk how hard those jobs are to get. I'd also be pretty happy with a TX SSC clerkship (or fed obv), but I wouldn't be satisfied with a clerkship lower than that or a firm with <25 attnys that's not a boutique.


Disregarding cost, probably. But the bolded makes it questionable. Once you get outside of biglaw/comparable boutiques, clerking, and fedgov, T14 starts to matter much less, not at all, or can almost be worse than local schools, depending on the region. I have no idea how hard non-biglaw jobs in Austin will be to get from UT. But from a T14, Austin biglaw might even be easier.

Btw, I remembered this article in the Houston Chronicle touched a little on firm recruiting in addition to "LOL lawschool." Not sure the link will work, because it is a subscription site. However, you can copy and paste it in Google if you want.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/New-lawyers-face-law-of-diminishing-returns-4776904.php

The TLDR is that V&E's main pipelines are UT, Harvard, UVA, Columbia, and Yale in that order. Obviously UT will have many more students competing for those spots. AZA, a lit boutique, recruits from the top 15 schools and has been "visible" at UChi.

BigZuck
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby BigZuck » Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:38 pm

HYSenberg wrote:I hear you. I was including the TX SSC clerkship because I was under the impression that those were easier to get than fed clerkships and biglaw, thus expanding the pool of "good jobs." I may be mistaken on this inference, however.


I'm not sure how many TX SC clerkship positions there are and how many UT kids get them. You're right that its fairly prestigious in TX (maybe about on par with a Fed District Court) but I don't know that it's any easier for a UT kid to snag than big law. The only bro I know who clerked for the TX SC already had a big law job lined up before he accepted the clerkship.

HYSenberg
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:04 pm

Stringer Bell wrote:Disregarding cost, probably. But the bolded makes it questionable. Once you get outside of biglaw/comparable boutiques, clerking, and fedgov, T14 starts to matter much less, not at all, or can almost be worse than local schools, depending on the region. I have no idea how hard non-biglaw jobs in Austin will be to get from UT. But from a T14, Austin biglaw might even be easier.

Btw, I remembered this article in the Houston Chronicle touched a little on firm recruiting in addition to "LOL lawschool." Not sure the link will work, because it is a subscription site. However, you can copy and paste it in Google if you want.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/New-lawyers-face-law-of-diminishing-returns-4776904.php

The TLDR is that V&E's main pipelines are UT, Harvard, UVA, Columbia, and Yale in that order. Obviously UT will have many more students competing for those spots. AZA, a lit boutique, recruits from the top 15 schools and has been "visible" at UChi.


Yeah, I haven't heard much on Austin non-biglaw jobs either, which is why I was curious. I (like many others) would definitely prefer to live here for the rest of my life if possible, and I'd take a pretty large pay cut to guarantee that outcome. I don't want to work solo or for a 2-10 practice though, which I'd definitely classify as shitlaw. That article is interesting (and so is the method used to view it for free) so ty. Do either of you know if the TX govt is hiring at all and/or how to get ingratiated with those folks? I am starting an internship at a govt agency soon and intend to network a little, but I'd like to hear options on how to get one of those jobs. I'm not too picky on which job because as long as I can stay in Austin with a reliable job, I'm willing to sacrifice a lot. I should emphasize, however, that my ties to the area are tenuous.

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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby spacepenguin » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:21 pm

romanticegotist wrote:Austin in particular is really tough for everyone b/c it's actually pretty small, especially if you aren't doing IP. Source: am at UT.



Absolutely not. Most people, for whatever reason, self-select out of applying in the Texas market. I know of plenty of 1Ls and 2Ls who did just fine in Texas.

BigZuck
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby BigZuck » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:25 pm

spacepenguin wrote:
romanticegotist wrote:Austin in particular is really tough for everyone b/c it's actually pretty small, especially if you aren't doing IP. Source: am at UT.



Absolutely not. Most people, for whatever reason, self-select out of applying in the Texas market. I know of plenty of 1Ls and 2Ls who did just fine in Texas.


wut

Are you saying most people at UT self-select out of applying to jobs in Texas?

HYSenberg
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby HYSenberg » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:27 pm

BigZuck wrote:
spacepenguin wrote:
romanticegotist wrote:Austin in particular is really tough for everyone b/c it's actually pretty small, especially if you aren't doing IP. Source: am at UT.



Absolutely not. Most people, for whatever reason, self-select out of applying in the Texas market. I know of plenty of 1Ls and 2Ls who did just fine in Texas.


wut

Are you saying most people at UT self-select out of applying to jobs in Texas?


lol

BigZuck
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Re: Best T-14s for Texas Biglaw

Postby BigZuck » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:32 pm

HYSenberg wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
spacepenguin wrote:
romanticegotist wrote:Austin in particular is really tough for everyone b/c it's actually pretty small, especially if you aren't doing IP. Source: am at UT.



Absolutely not. Most people, for whatever reason, self-select out of applying in the Texas market. I know of plenty of 1Ls and 2Ls who did just fine in Texas.


wut

Are you saying most people at UT self-select out of applying to jobs in Texas?


lol


My brain is kind of fried right now but that's how that statement read to me. It's also talking about Texas as a whole, whereas Ego was talking specifically about Austin.

Maybe it's just a reading comprehension fail on my part though.




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