LLMs and outsourcing

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dominiquewilkins
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LLMs and outsourcing

Postby dominiquewilkins » Mon Nov 04, 2013 1:30 pm

How are LLMs hurting JD only attorneys?

Well, some attorneys from other countries have their companies pay them to study in the U.S. So they pick one area and really become an expert at it; for example, say securities or tax law.

Then they go back home and American firms can outsource that work to those attorneys who have expertise that American JD only attorneys don't have and those foreign attorneys will do the work at a discounted rate.

So when people on this board say LLMs are not worth it, this is another view to consider. Of course, the big issue that a lot of people who are against LLMs concerns additional cost for American JD only attorneys who are having to foot the bill themselves. Which is a real issue. Which is another factor for those applying to law school: whether they can get an LLM if necessary for career advancement. For some people who can't do this, they should consider not attending law school.

For those reading this thread, flame away. Thanks.

dominiquewilkins
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby dominiquewilkins » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:16 pm

Someone show me where I am wrong (because this is me thinking out loud):

Big NY law firm can either hire a new 1L from an American JD only, licensed attorney or can hire a foreign attorney (and pay for that person to go to school and get an LLM for one year):

American lawyer - 160K per year for 6 years = 960,000.

Foreign attorney - pay full costs of 85K for tuition and board.
50K per year for 6 years of work = 300,000 (going rate in other country is cheaper than American rate)
Total = 385,000.

960K vs. 385K - easy choice for NY law firm.

So it's cheaper for big NY law firm to hire foreign attorney, pay in full for LLM and then have them work for them for 6 years.

So this is another consideration for people wanting to enter legal field, how it is going to be very difficult to compete with these numbers.

Again, if this is wrong, then someone please correct me. Thanks.

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MistakenGenius
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Postby MistakenGenius » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:21 pm

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dominiquewilkins
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby dominiquewilkins » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:37 am

MistakenGenius wrote:I'm not saying you're wrong, but what does this have to do with choosing a law school? Probably should be in the lounge.


This section is called "Choosing a Law School", and this factors into that decision, so it belongs in this section.

It's popular on this board to simply say that LLMs are a waste for American lawyers, but I don't agree with that. When someone is factoring whether to go to law school or not, some attendees should factor in whether they are willing to take on additional debt to get specialization through an LLM.

Not saying this factor should be everyone, but for some law school attendees, this is a factor that needs to be considered. If you are supersmart and will end up at the top of the class, then maybe factoring the need for LLMs may not be as important.

For those individuals who are in the middle or bottom, then the need for specialization through an LLM may be necessary, since those individuals won't get training and experience through big law firms work and training.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby mr. wednesday » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:44 am

Post an article or any evidence that foreign LLMs are getting paid to get their degree and then used to outsource legal work.

All of the foreign LLMs I've met are going back to the company they work for as in-house counsel or are looking for a new job in the US, not being shipped back to some outsourcing farm with a free degree.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:50 am

Do you have any evidence whatsoever that NYC law firms are actually doing this? And even if they did, how on earth would getting an LLM help an American-trained JD? What makes the foreign-trained LLM cheaper in this hypothetical scenario is the working in another country part, not having an LLM (the LLM is just necessary to be admitted in the US). Except for tax, an LLM does not provide any extra work/training that would make a JD a more attractive candidate for employment.

dominiquewilkins
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby dominiquewilkins » Thu Nov 07, 2013 9:00 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Do you have any evidence whatsoever that NYC law firms are actually doing this? And even if they did, how on earth would getting an LLM help an American-trained JD? What makes the foreign-trained LLM cheaper in this hypothetical scenario is the working in another country part, not having an LLM (the LLM is just necessary to be admitted in the US). Except for tax, an LLM does not provide any extra work/training that would make a JD a more attractive candidate for employment.


This is me thinking out loud. I have no proof of this happening.
But it doesn't seem far-fetched in the near future as law firms look to cut costs.

dominiquewilkins
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby dominiquewilkins » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:29 pm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7jLRQk-q7w

This video talks about outsourcing and legal work, the firm Axiom.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Nov 08, 2013 8:31 pm

But getting an LLM will not remotely help American JDs deal with/avoid this potential outsourcing.

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mr. wednesday
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Re: LLMs and outsourcing

Postby mr. wednesday » Fri Nov 08, 2013 9:22 pm

dominiquewilkins wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7jLRQk-q7w

This video talks about outsourcing and legal work, the firm Axiom.


Doesn't say anything about LLMs, anyone paying for someone to get an LLM and then sending them out of the country to outsource to another country, and certainly doesn't suggest a LLM is a good choice for an american JD.

This is basically just talking about alternative legal services providers which are based in the US and you have no idea whether they are hiring JDs or LLMs.




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