Best T14 for Working in Boston

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Blindmelon
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Blindmelon » Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:29 am

Nelson wrote:
Blindmelon wrote: UVA/Chicago/Cornell/Columbia/Penn (no one cares about these gradations really, median students at any shouldn't have trouble in Boston)

Considering that some median students at those schools will struggle in NYC, I doubt "shouldn't have trouble" is an accurate description of how it would go in Boston.


Is that true? I always thought T14s minus Gtown had around 50% or higher bigfirm placement.

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Nelson
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Nelson » Mon Nov 04, 2013 12:05 am

Blindmelon wrote:
Nelson wrote:
Blindmelon wrote: UVA/Chicago/Cornell/Columbia/Penn (no one cares about these gradations really, median students at any shouldn't have trouble in Boston)

Considering that some median students at those schools will struggle in NYC, I doubt "shouldn't have trouble" is an accurate description of how it would go in Boston.


Is that true? I always thought T14s minus Gtown had around 50% or higher bigfirm placement.

Yeah but if your biglaw placement is only 65% and your curve has a big fat middle where the middle 40% of the class can all describe themselves as median, it's not such a great place to be.

hos9903
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby hos9903 » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:18 pm

ohpobrecito wrote:Would you guys say that TCR is to choose a mid-lower T14 at sticker over BU/BC with good $$?


Also very interested in some input on this, as I have strong ties in Boston and would ultimately like to work there. I am considering going to a low T-14 at sticker (or close to it). Will those things together open up biglaw in Boston more so than BC/BU, assuming I can get decent grades (~median)?

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Pete Venkman
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Pete Venkman » Mon Nov 04, 2013 6:34 pm

People at median at CCN have definitely not all enjoyed success securing SAs at NYC firms this cycle. Most maybe, but there are a significant number who don't have jobs yet from what I've seen.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby jbagelboy » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:41 pm

Pete Venkman wrote:People at median at CCN have definitely not all enjoyed success securing SAs at NYC firms this cycle. Most maybe, but there are a significant number who don't have jobs yet from what I've seen.


where are you seeing this?

I know there are a few people at my school that struck out but they were (by self-admission) not at median.

Of course it happens, but is this year particularly bad? I got a different impression.

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Pete Venkman
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Pete Venkman » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:57 pm

I guess this is highly anecdotal - have a good friend who is slightly above median, interned with fed judge in NYC, and is still looking. I know of some others at my school but they may be below median.

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stillwater
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby stillwater » Mon Nov 04, 2013 7:59 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Pete Venkman wrote:People at median at CCN have definitely not all enjoyed success securing SAs at NYC firms this cycle. Most maybe, but there are a significant number who don't have jobs yet from what I've seen.


where are you seeing this?

I know there are a few people at my school that struck out but they were (by self-admission) not at median.

Of course it happens, but is this year particularly bad? I got a different impression.


it was tots a bloodbath

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon Nov 04, 2013 8:20 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Pete Venkman wrote:People at median at CCN have definitely not all enjoyed success securing SAs at NYC firms this cycle. Most maybe, but there are a significant number who don't have jobs yet from what I've seen.


where are you seeing this?

I know there are a few people at my school that struck out but they were (by self-admission) not at median.

Of course it happens, but is this year particularly bad? I got a different impression.

It's one of those things where saying "not all" doesn't really tell us much. Even at a school that places 70%+ into biglaw SA's there are always going to be some median people who struggle.

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Blindmelon
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Blindmelon » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:09 am

hos9903 wrote:
ohpobrecito wrote:Would you guys say that TCR is to choose a mid-lower T14 at sticker over BU/BC with good $$?


Also very interested in some input on this, as I have strong ties in Boston and would ultimately like to work there. I am considering going to a low T-14 at sticker (or close to it). Will those things together open up biglaw in Boston more so than BC/BU, assuming I can get decent grades (~median)?


I wouldn't do sticker anywhere but HYS because they open doors that other schools don't. Otherwise, think about the cost. Bigfirm money is a lot, but you may only last two years, and the loans will stay with you for a long time.

While BC/BU is not great for bigfirms, if you have the numbers for a lower T14, you should be able to get a lot of money out of them (especially now that their stats have tanked). Debt is just evil. Its worse than you think it will be when you graduate.

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FlanAl
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby FlanAl » Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:19 am

just wanted to add that I know a few people with zero boston ties who got sa's/firm offers there from cornell.

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indigomachine
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby indigomachine » Tue Nov 05, 2013 5:36 pm

Word of caution on NYU / CLS: Boston firms I dealt with seemed particularly suspicious of NYC based schools both at screener and CB stage. I lucked out and managed to land something despite a pretty rough 1L year (CCN+ties still seems doable for overcoming a not great 1L GPA), but the "do you have ties" discussion consistently turned into "but really... you don't like NYC more?" I have pretty strong ties (entire immediate and extended family lives there, worked in Boston before), and it still came up in pretty much every interview and in a few cases was the predominate discussion point.

On grades, it seems like firms are willing to dip for CCN, but on ties, no one's going to question why you're leaving "the south" to go back to Boston (which pushes in favor of UVA/Duke)--the same can't be said for NYC (and possibly Chicago--no idea how things have panned out there though).

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Otunga
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Otunga » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:33 pm

Interesting. It makes perfect sense to care a lot about ties, but why do you think Boston weighs that particularly high? Are New Englanders that insecure in this regard? :o (I poke fun at myself as one.)

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indigomachine
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby indigomachine » Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:45 pm

Otunga wrote:Interesting. It makes perfect sense to care a lot about ties, but why do you think Boston weighs that particularly high? Are New Englanders that insecure in this regard? :o (I poke fun at myself as one.)


I don't know that Boston is more concerned about ties than other major non-NYC / DC markets so much as going to CLS / NYU gives rise to greater scrutiny on it as an issue. The reason any firm cares about ties at all is because they don't want to invest time and money in someone who is at risk for jumping ship to a different market (usually NYC) at the first opportunity. Both CLS and NYU have reputations for feeding heavily into the NYC market and substantially less-so into the Boston / New England market. Some of it is probably firms being more suspicious of ties and a substantial portion is probably self-selection--attorneys in any major non-NYC market aren't going to like the idea of being thought of as "back-up NYC".

NYU geographic distributions here: http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/employmentstatistics

CLS is a little less revealing, but MA (i.e. Boston) isn't in the top 3 destinations and I'd be surprised if it differed substantially from NYU's #'s: http://web.law.columbia.edu/careers/employment-statistics

ETA: Here's UVA for one comparison (again, there's still going to be issues of self-selection--just food for thought): http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/career/career_map.htm

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Blindmelon
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby Blindmelon » Wed Nov 06, 2013 9:30 am

Its not just worrying about jumping ship. Boston is an insular market and I think people here like their own.

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2014
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby 2014 » Wed Nov 06, 2013 11:23 pm

Anecdotally in the last 2 classes I think UChi is batting pretty close to 100% putting people with Boston ties back in Boston. It might require mass mailing, but firms are receptive. Something to consider since OP is competitive for a Ruby.

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indigomachine
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby indigomachine » Thu Nov 07, 2013 5:17 pm

2014 wrote:Anecdotally in the last 2 classes I think UChi is batting pretty close to 100% putting people with Boston ties back in Boston. It might require mass mailing, but firms are receptive. Something to consider since OP is competitive for a Ruby.


Yeah I don't actually know how many people from NYU/CLS gun for Boston, so it's hard to know who was trying for it and struck out vs who just didn't try. "Why not NYC" was just a really prevalent aspect in the interviews I had, and historically it doesn't seem like either school sends much of their class back North.

On the flip side, I was pretty terrible about mass mailing, was decidedly below median, and things still worked out for Boston w/ ties, so take that FWIW.

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McGruff
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby McGruff » Fri Nov 08, 2013 12:56 pm

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Last edited by McGruff on Sun Nov 17, 2013 12:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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2014
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby 2014 » Fri Nov 08, 2013 4:07 pm

There's no right answer to that, it's a spectrum where having a GF whose aunt is in Boston is worse than having a fiance who grew up there which is worse than having grown up their yourself, etc. It also is very dependent on your ability to sell it convincingly. An engaging, persuasive applicant could probably get their foot in the door with pretty tenuous ties so in that regard basically anything is sufficient, but your ability to convey it matters a lot.

Also consider stretching the truth if you must (assuming you are actually serious about ending up there). They use the ties question as a proxy for whether you will be a waste of time recruiting and training, and to the extent that you are serious about it but your resume/history doesn't quite do the work for you, you can probably exaggerate a bit. I expect some disagree with me on this though.

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indigomachine
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Re: Best T14 for Working in Boston

Postby indigomachine » Fri Nov 08, 2013 5:45 pm

2014 wrote:There's no right answer to that, it's a spectrum where having a GF whose aunt is in Boston is worse than having a fiance who grew up there which is worse than having grown up their yourself, etc. It also is very dependent on your ability to sell it convincingly. An engaging, persuasive applicant could probably get their foot in the door with pretty tenuous ties so in that regard basically anything is sufficient, but your ability to convey it matters a lot.

Also consider stretching the truth if you must (assuming you are actually serious about ending up there). They use the ties question as a proxy for whether you will be a waste of time recruiting and training, and to the extent that you are serious about it but your resume/history doesn't quite do the work for you, you can probably exaggerate a bit. I expect some disagree with me on this though.


Sell is definitely a big component--kind of intuitive. Great ties without being convincing about how much you value them is effectively as good as no ties--ok ties and making the interviewer believe they're a big deal to you will probably be acceptable for checking of the "ties" box. I think some of the places where I didn't get callbacks saw through the fact that I actually want to be in NYC (it's kind of ironic that things worked out the way they did), and I have pretty strong ties on paper.




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