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T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:52 pm
by bouleversement
Is there consensus on how the top schools stack up in terms of political ideologies of both the faculty and students?

I have heard Boalt is left-leaning, as is NYU. Many believe Virginia to be conservative, Chicago as well.

Somebody who is in a position to guess (probably not a 0L like myself) want to take a stab at ranking them?

Yes, I used the search function and only found one thread which didn't really help much.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/archives ... f=1&t=2230

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 9:59 pm
by smaug_
Why do you care? There will be conservatives and liberals at all of them. I'd wager that they're all significantly more liberal than conservative.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:08 pm
by wiz
Yale - Know Nothing
Stanford - Democratic-Republican
Harvard - Whig
Columbia - Libertarian
Chicago - Federalist
NYU - Rent is Too Damn High Party
Penn - Constitutional Union
UVA - Tea Party
Berkeley - Green Party
Michigan - Socialist
Duke - Republican
Northwestern - Democratic
Cornell - Fascist
GULC - Guns and Dope Party

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:28 pm
by mr. wednesday
You are not going to be persecuted at any T14 school for being liberal or conservative. If you are a conservative join the federalists society, if not join any group that helps poor people or ACS or something.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 10:48 pm
by midwest17
wiz wrote:NYU - Rent is Too Damn High Party


Credited.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:05 pm
by hephaestus
You should be concerned about jobs, not "political leanings."

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:15 pm
by BigZuck
I go to UT and if you listen to some of the people on this site Texas is a cesspool of close-minded conservatism. Overall I would say the law school is pretty liberal but there's a good mix of conservatives and libertarians as well. No shits are given about where everyone falls on the spectrum.

tl;dr- care about stuff that matters.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:16 pm
by twenty
But everyone knows how INCREDIBLY CONSERVATIVE UChicago is.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:21 pm
by bouleversement
hibiki wrote:Why do you care? There will be conservatives and liberals at all of them.


(I am sure I will get attacked for this but it won't be the first time.) I care because I do not want to primarily learn from or be surrounded by either pinkos or neocons (I unfortunately was in undergrad). Faculty is the biggest concern and while I am sure they are all "diverse" birds of a feather do tend to flock together, not to mention cross-fertilize one another's ideas.

I have no experience with any of these schools and was hoping some of you did. For example, this is a helpful kind of response

BigZuck wrote:I go to UT and if you listen to some of the people on this site Texas is a cesspool of close-minded conservatism. Overall I would say the law school is pretty liberal but there's a good mix of conservatives and libertarians as well. No shits are given about where everyone falls on the spectrum.


whereas this

twentypercentmore wrote:But everyone knows how INCREDIBLY CONSERVATIVE UChicago is.


is not...

hibiki wrote:I'd wager that they're all significantly more liberal than conservative.


I would too but we can still make a relative assessment. Here is my list just for fun. It's obvious but for the sake of clarity this is from left-leaning to less left-leaning.

1. Berkeley
2. NYU
3. Yale
4. Stanford
5. Penn
6. Columbia
7. Harvard
8. Cornell
9. Northwestern
10. Michigan
11. Georgetown
12. Chicago
13. Duke
14. Virginia

As fair a guess as any?

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:23 pm
by BigZuck
Also: in b4 obligatory TLS "here is a ton of threads about this topic, use the search function" pwnage

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:27 pm
by BigZuck
At all those schools you'll find professors that run the political gamut. And it won't matter.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:28 pm
by stillwater
lulz. its academia bro.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:29 pm
by smaug_
(I am sure I will get attacked for this but it won't be the first time.) I care because I do not want to primarily learn from or be surrounded by either pinkos or neocons (I unfortunately was in undergrad). Faculty is the biggest concern and while I am sure they are all "diverse" birds of a feather do tend to flock together, not to mention cross-fertilize one another's ideas.


For the most part, you don't get to choose your professors and you'll have a mix at most schools. I'm not sure what you consider pinkos or neocons, but you're not going to have too many people with extreme viewpoints at any of these schools. It's pointless to try to rank/order them because if you were to place the T14 on a spectrum of the visible wavelengths of light to match where they fall on the political spectrum, they would all be different hues of the same color.

There is literally no situation where this is a useful criterion by which to determine which schools to attend. If you were to add some extreme T4s or something I could understand the concern, but how nice the coffee shops around the school are is probably more important than the political leanings of the school.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:33 pm
by kalvano
bouleversement wrote:
hibiki wrote:Why do you care? There will be conservatives and liberals at all of them.


(I am sure I will get attacked for this but it won't be the first time.) I care because I do not want to primarily learn from or be surrounded by either pinkos or neocons (I unfortunately was in undergrad). Faculty is the biggest concern and while I am sure they are all "diverse" birds of a feather do tend to flock together, not to mention cross-fertilize one another's ideas.


It doesn't matter. It's not undergrad. There isn't really any way to make Property more or less liberal, or Civ Pro more conservative. It couldn't possibly matter less. This type of worry, while perhaps valid to some small degree for undergrad, is totally and utterly useless for law school.

Besides, if you're so insecure in your own beliefs that the viewpoint of the person in front of the class is a huge concern, perhaps you ought to rethink law school. After all, a good bit of being a lawyer is setting aside your own beliefs and viewpoints and arguing for what's best for your client.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:52 pm
by hephaestus
BigZuck wrote:At all those schools you'll find professors that run the political gamut. And it won't matter.

This is the real answer.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sat Oct 12, 2013 11:59 pm
by UnderrateOverachieve
kalvano wrote:
bouleversement wrote:
hibiki wrote:Why do you care? There will be conservatives and liberals at all of them.


(I am sure I will get attacked for this but it won't be the first time.) I care because I do not want to primarily learn from or be surrounded by either pinkos or neocons (I unfortunately was in undergrad). Faculty is the biggest concern and while I am sure they are all "diverse" birds of a feather do tend to flock together, not to mention cross-fertilize one another's ideas.


It doesn't matter. It's not undergrad. There isn't really any way to make Property more or less liberal, or Civ Pro more conservative. It couldn't possibly matter less. This type of worry, while perhaps valid to some small degree for undergrad, is totally and utterly useless for law school.

Besides, if you're so insecure in your own beliefs that the viewpoint of the person in front of the class is a huge concern, perhaps you ought to rethink law school. After all, a good bit of being a lawyer is setting aside your own beliefs and viewpoints and arguing for what's best for your client.


Didn't make a huge difference but I have seen professors make Property and Con Law much more conservative or liberal. Professor literally skipping over Scalia opinions, and another one spending significant time on why zoning is unnecessary one class session.

Would not choose schools based on any of it...

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:02 am
by kalvano
Well, if a hot liberal opinion on zoning makes you uncomfortable, perhaps law isn't the right career.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:04 am
by rinkrat19
UnderrateOverachieve wrote:
kalvano wrote:
bouleversement wrote:
hibiki wrote:Why do you care? There will be conservatives and liberals at all of them.


(I am sure I will get attacked for this but it won't be the first time.) I care because I do not want to primarily learn from or be surrounded by either pinkos or neocons (I unfortunately was in undergrad). Faculty is the biggest concern and while I am sure they are all "diverse" birds of a feather do tend to flock together, not to mention cross-fertilize one another's ideas.


It doesn't matter. It's not undergrad. There isn't really any way to make Property more or less liberal, or Civ Pro more conservative. It couldn't possibly matter less. This type of worry, while perhaps valid to some small degree for undergrad, is totally and utterly useless for law school.

Besides, if you're so insecure in your own beliefs that the viewpoint of the person in front of the class is a huge concern, perhaps you ought to rethink law school. After all, a good bit of being a lawyer is setting aside your own beliefs and viewpoints and arguing for what's best for your client.


Didn't make a huge difference but I have seen professors make Property and Con Law much more conservative or liberal. Professor literally skipping over Scalia opinions, and another one spending significant time on why zoning is unnecessary one class session.

Would not choose schools based on any of it...
tbf, once you've read one 15-page Scalia dissent...

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:05 am
by kalvano
Scalia is hilarious. I enjoy that he openly mocks and criticizes the other Justices.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:11 am
by mr. wednesday
Who says "pinkos" besides boomers?

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:12 am
by jn7
Interesting observation (not implying anything by it), I think the only t14 school in a red state is Duke.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:14 am
by smaug_
kalvano wrote:Scalia is hilarious. I enjoy that he openly mocks and criticizes the other Justices.


Besides, sometimes he's right. I'm a shitlib but I've agreed with many Scalia opinions. Just because I don't agree with the dude on many things doesn't make him a bad Justice.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:15 am
by midwest17
bouleversement wrote:I care because I do not want to primarily learn from or be surrounded by either pinkos or neocons (I unfortunately was in undergrad).


This is pretty good evidence that you lack perspective on the political spectrum.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:19 am
by kalvano
hibiki wrote:
kalvano wrote:Scalia is hilarious. I enjoy that he openly mocks and criticizes the other Justices.


Besides, sometimes he's right. I'm a shitlib but I've agreed with many Scalia opinions. Just because I don't agree with the dude on many things doesn't make him a bad Justice.


Shockingly, when you take nine of the smartest legal minds in the country, they are going to have interesting and intelligent things to say, regardless of their political leanings. Which is why threads like this both amuse and frighten me. I'm pretty in the middle, but I had conservative and liberal professors that had nice insights into issues.

Re: T14 Political Leanings

Posted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 12:41 am
by wiz
kalvano wrote:
hibiki wrote:
kalvano wrote:Scalia is hilarious. I enjoy that he openly mocks and criticizes the other Justices.


Besides, sometimes he's right. I'm a shitlib but I've agreed with many Scalia opinions. Just because I don't agree with the dude on many things doesn't make him a bad Justice.


Shockingly, when you take nine of the smartest legal minds in the country, they are going to have interesting and intelligent things to say, regardless of their political leanings. Which is why threads like this both amuse and frighten me. I'm pretty in the middle, but I had conservative and liberal professors that had nice insights into issues.


Exactly. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to hear a different perspective (not that it really matters because civ pro is civ pro) or would actively avoid a school because it had a shitlib rating of 8.5 instead of 8.