UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

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Ti Malice
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Ti Malice » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:47 pm

iamgeorgebush wrote:
Ti Malice wrote:Oh, that's definitely to say that OP should not attend Hastings, regardless of whether it's the only law school he/she can attend. Law school is not the only option.

Tell that to the scores of people who went to Hastings and are happy in their careers. You've definitely got to be really motivated to succeed at Hastings, but to say that no one should ever attend it is just stupid advice.

You also don't know what the OP's other options are right now. Maybe OP is unemployed. Maybe OP is flipping burgers. Maybe OP is an English major. Whatever OP may be doing right now, I'm willing to bet (s)he is not leaving a cushy job at Goldman.


I hope you have some inkling now of just how unresponsive your post was to mine.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby hiima3L » Tue Nov 12, 2013 5:48 pm

SBL wrote:
Mick Haller wrote:
Tiago Splitter wrote:There's a poster around here who just graduated from Hastings in the top 15% of his class and spent his 3L year having to scratch and claw his way to a 75k insurance defense gig. I doubt motivation was his issue.


That's me. I love my job. I am doing large scale construction defect cases.

But Hastings . . . Don't go. I only had about 70k in loans which is manageable on a 75k salary. My payments were initially $750 per month from $4300 monthly after tax. If you have to borrow more than me you are majorly screwed. Many of my buds are 100k+ In debt and struggling. One is making $160k but his $200k loan payments leave him with slightly more disposable income than me.

To second others above - Hastings is hard, curve is hard, all bets are off come grades time. Place is teeming with Cal, Stanford, assorted UC types who made 165-ish and refused to leave the Bay Area.

My advice is don't go. Price is high, odds are long.

Are you in the bay? If you're inland there are pretty good firms that pay around 75-85.


Like who? Sac firms?

There are some places that would be very, very hard to live. One that comes to mind is Fresno . . .

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20160810
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby 20160810 » Tue Nov 12, 2013 6:14 pm

I grew up in Sac. It's a fun town, and your money goes far as hell.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Mick Haller » Tue Nov 12, 2013 11:20 pm

SBL wrote:I grew up in Sac. It's a fun town, and your money goes far as hell.


I was in Sac a few weeks ago. It seems alright. The climate would be the worst part of it. Plus it's pretty spread out so I imagine traffic can be terrible. But there definitely are some nice areas and things to do.

I was also recently in Bakersfield for work. Hellish place. Best thing is the new strip malls close to the CSU there.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Mick Haller » Wed Nov 13, 2013 11:52 pm

Oh I also meant to say my experience is far from unique for top quarter-ish Hastings people who strike out at OCI. Most of my firm's recent hires (post-2008) have been top 15% Hastings, top 10% USF/McGeorge types. I am working with some seriously impressive people. Part of why I love my job.

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20160810
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby 20160810 » Fri Nov 15, 2013 12:04 pm

Mick Haller wrote:Oh I also meant to say my experience is far from unique for top quarter-ish Hastings people who strike out at OCI. Most of my firm's recent hires (post-2008) have been top 15% Hastings, top 10% USF/McGeorge types. I am working with some seriously impressive people. Part of why I love my job.

Id say this is true of Davis as well. The one X factor is if you have ties somewhere other than SF or LA that can be big.

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:00 pm

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Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:02 pm

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Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:04 pm

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BigZuck
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby BigZuck » Thu Nov 21, 2013 4:19 pm

You've never had trouble getting jobs, but have you ever tried getting lawyer jobs with a TTT law degree?

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Fri Nov 22, 2013 5:33 pm

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:04 am

SBL wrote:I actually work at a law firm and have interviewed law students and gone to hiring committee meetings. We use the same rank cutoffs for D and H. So does everyone.


But the cutoff is not all that matters, most firms don't simply look at the cut-off and then give a screener (otherwise they'd be interviewing thousands of people for each office, especially from mass-mails). If you have an alumni connection of some sort you are more likely to get a screener, and by sheer force of numbers Hastings has a much better alumni network in SF than Davis does.

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ilovesf
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby ilovesf » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:20 am

OneMoreLawHopeful wrote:
SBL wrote:I actually work at a law firm and have interviewed law students and gone to hiring committee meetings. We use the same rank cutoffs for D and H. So does everyone.


But the cutoff is not all that matters, most firms don't simply look at the cut-off and then give a screener (otherwise they'd be interviewing thousands of people for each office, especially from mass-mails). If you have an alumni connection of some sort you are more likely to get a screener, and by sheer force of numbers Hastings has a much better alumni network in SF than Davis does.

Are you arguing about hiring practices with someone who actually works for a firm and is on the hiring committee?

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OneMoreLawHopeful
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby OneMoreLawHopeful » Sat Nov 23, 2013 1:37 am

ilovesf wrote:Are you arguing about hiring practices with someone who actually works for a firm and is on the hiring committee?

Is SBL suggesting that alumni networks do not lead to interviews?

BigZuck
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby BigZuck » Sat Nov 23, 2013 2:08 am

BigZuck wrote:What's more tasty: a turd burger or a poop sandwhich?

OP: don't let this recent discussion lead you astray. Both schools are festering TTT's

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sun Dec 01, 2013 9:41 pm

Wait, are there still people seriously considering going to UC Hastings and paying sticker? This is like trying to call Bernie Madoff in jail to see if he'll let you invest with him.

joblessgrad
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby joblessgrad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:07 am

Not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread, but here it goes.

I enrolled at Hastings in 2009, possibly the most competitive year in the last decade for LS applications, based on the grossly misrepresented employment figures/salaries and Hastings' traditional reputation; in the past it was a top 20 school. It was the biggest mistake of my life. Now I am 160K in debt, even with the roughly 10K per year I received in grants, and will be forced to move in with my parents until I can find steady work. I had a solid GPA (from Cal) and LSAT (3.6/165) and I didn't want to retake. What a mistake.

Hastings' reputation is on the decline. It's USN rank went from low 30s to high 40s in the last 4 years, and this year's entering class has substantially lower LSAT scores than the last. Unless a miracle takes place, Hastings will stay stuck in a negative feedback loop, likely dropping out of the top 50 on the basis of lower GPAs and LSAT scores. And unless you give really good head, either literally or figuratively, chances are a Hastings degree won't get you a good job in the bay area.

That's not to say Santa Clara is any better - it's worse, in terms of reputation among professionals/judges and quality of education. The only reason to pick Santa Clara over Hastings is a big scholarship and to avoid the dicks and disappointed elitists that inhabit Hastings. But that said, unless you can get a full ride or into a T14, there is really no point in going to law school, other than to stroke one's ego and possibly bang dumb b**ches easily impressed by a "lawyer." Balance the risk and reward. Don't make the same mistake I did. I nearly quit in the middle of 2L, but the debt was so crushing that it seemed a bigger waste to walk away owing 80K without a JD than just finishing and owing twice that. In retrospect that arguably was a poor decision, unless the job market drastically changes in the next year or so.

P.S. Irrespective of USN, very few professionals or judges in the bay (or in CA generally) regard Davis as better than Hastings; quite the opposite, actually. Davis is also a poor decision. F**k law school. Have fun paying some d-bag professor's excessive salary and know that you will be embarking on a life of penury.

BigZuck
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:13 am

joblessgrad wrote:Not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread, but here it goes.

I enrolled at Hastings in 2009, possibly the most competitive year in the last decade for LS applications, based on the grossly misrepresented employment figures/salaries and Hastings' traditional reputation; in the past it was a top 20 school. It was the biggest mistake of my life. Now I am 160K in debt, even with the roughly 10K per year I received in grants, and will be forced to move in with my parents until I can find steady work. I had a solid GPA (from Cal) and LSAT (3.6/165) and I didn't want to retake. What a mistake.

Hastings' reputation is on the decline. It's USN rank went from low 30s to high 40s in the last 4 years, and this year's entering class has substantially lower LSAT scores than the last. Unless a miracle takes place, Hastings will stay stuck in a negative feedback loop, likely dropping out of the top 50 on the basis of lower GPAs and LSAT scores. And unless you give really good head, either literally or figuratively, chances are a Hastings degree won't get you a good job in the bay area.

That's not to say Santa Clara is any better - it's worse, in terms of reputation among professionals/judges and quality of education. The only reason to pick Santa Clara over Hastings is a big scholarship and to avoid the dicks and disappointed elitists that inhabit Hastings. But that said, unless you can get a full ride or into a T14, there is really no point in going to law school, other than to stroke one's ego and possibly bang dumb b**ches easily impressed by a "lawyer." Balance the risk and reward. Don't make the same mistake I did. I nearly quit in the middle of 2L, but the debt was so crushing that it seemed a bigger waste to walk away owing 80K without a JD than just finishing and owing twice that. In retrospect that arguably was a poor decision, unless the job market drastically changes in the next year or so.

P.S. Irrespective of USN, very few professionals or judges in the bay (or in CA generally) regard Davis as better than Hastings; quite the opposite, actually. Davis is also a poor decision. F**k law school. Have fun paying some d-bag professor's excessive salary and know that you will be embarking on a life of penury.


I do not think this poster is real. It's just an amalgam of TLS common wisdom and snark.

Still, if it dissuades anyone from going to either of these schools then I most certainly approve.

hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby hiima3L » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:33 am

BigZuck wrote:
joblessgrad wrote:Not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread, but here it goes.

I enrolled at Hastings in 2009, possibly the most competitive year in the last decade for LS applications, based on the grossly misrepresented employment figures/salaries and Hastings' traditional reputation; in the past it was a top 20 school. It was the biggest mistake of my life. Now I am 160K in debt, even with the roughly 10K per year I received in grants, and will be forced to move in with my parents until I can find steady work. I had a solid GPA (from Cal) and LSAT (3.6/165) and I didn't want to retake. What a mistake.

Hastings' reputation is on the decline. It's USN rank went from low 30s to high 40s in the last 4 years, and this year's entering class has substantially lower LSAT scores than the last. Unless a miracle takes place, Hastings will stay stuck in a negative feedback loop, likely dropping out of the top 50 on the basis of lower GPAs and LSAT scores. And unless you give really good head, either literally or figuratively, chances are a Hastings degree won't get you a good job in the bay area.

That's not to say Santa Clara is any better - it's worse, in terms of reputation among professionals/judges and quality of education. The only reason to pick Santa Clara over Hastings is a big scholarship and to avoid the dicks and disappointed elitists that inhabit Hastings. But that said, unless you can get a full ride or into a T14, there is really no point in going to law school, other than to stroke one's ego and possibly bang dumb b**ches easily impressed by a "lawyer." Balance the risk and reward. Don't make the same mistake I did. I nearly quit in the middle of 2L, but the debt was so crushing that it seemed a bigger waste to walk away owing 80K without a JD than just finishing and owing twice that. In retrospect that arguably was a poor decision, unless the job market drastically changes in the next year or so.

P.S. Irrespective of USN, very few professionals or judges in the bay (or in CA generally) regard Davis as better than Hastings; quite the opposite, actually. Davis is also a poor decision. F**k law school. Have fun paying some d-bag professor's excessive salary and know that you will be embarking on a life of penury.


I do not think this poster is real. It's just an amalgam of TLS common wisdom and snark.

Still, if it dissuades anyone from going to either of these schools then I most certainly approve.


It's a little over the top, but I think it's real. The $10k/yr grant makes me think it's real--it's a grant given to most everyone, presumably so UCH can say "Oh look, 90% of our students get financial aid." The poster is also right that UCH, despite its current ranking (which is dropping dramatically), is very respected in CA. It has a gigantic alumni network that includes a lot of important people in high places, primarily in CA, which I think is the basis for its reputation.

But I agree with the spirit of the post. It's moronic to pay anywhere near sticker UCH nowadays. The c/o 2012 had a 50% employment rate at graduation. It's ludicrous that a school would require raking up $150k in debt for those odds. It's just plain stupid for people to enroll knowing that.

BigZuck
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 10, 2013 2:38 am

hiima3L wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
joblessgrad wrote:Not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread, but here it goes.

I enrolled at Hastings in 2009, possibly the most competitive year in the last decade for LS applications, based on the grossly misrepresented employment figures/salaries and Hastings' traditional reputation; in the past it was a top 20 school. It was the biggest mistake of my life. Now I am 160K in debt, even with the roughly 10K per year I received in grants, and will be forced to move in with my parents until I can find steady work. I had a solid GPA (from Cal) and LSAT (3.6/165) and I didn't want to retake. What a mistake.

Hastings' reputation is on the decline. It's USN rank went from low 30s to high 40s in the last 4 years, and this year's entering class has substantially lower LSAT scores than the last. Unless a miracle takes place, Hastings will stay stuck in a negative feedback loop, likely dropping out of the top 50 on the basis of lower GPAs and LSAT scores. And unless you give really good head, either literally or figuratively, chances are a Hastings degree won't get you a good job in the bay area.

That's not to say Santa Clara is any better - it's worse, in terms of reputation among professionals/judges and quality of education. The only reason to pick Santa Clara over Hastings is a big scholarship and to avoid the dicks and disappointed elitists that inhabit Hastings. But that said, unless you can get a full ride or into a T14, there is really no point in going to law school, other than to stroke one's ego and possibly bang dumb b**ches easily impressed by a "lawyer." Balance the risk and reward. Don't make the same mistake I did. I nearly quit in the middle of 2L, but the debt was so crushing that it seemed a bigger waste to walk away owing 80K without a JD than just finishing and owing twice that. In retrospect that arguably was a poor decision, unless the job market drastically changes in the next year or so.

P.S. Irrespective of USN, very few professionals or judges in the bay (or in CA generally) regard Davis as better than Hastings; quite the opposite, actually. Davis is also a poor decision. F**k law school. Have fun paying some d-bag professor's excessive salary and know that you will be embarking on a life of penury.


I do not think this poster is real. It's just an amalgam of TLS common wisdom and snark.

Still, if it dissuades anyone from going to either of these schools then I most certainly approve.


It's a little over the top, but I think it's real. The $10k/yr grant makes me think it's real--it's a grant given to most everyone, presumably so UCH can say "Oh look, 90% of our students get financial aid." The poster is also right that UCH, despite its current ranking (which is dropping dramatically), is very respected in CA. It has a gigantic alumni network that includes a lot of important people in high places, primarily in CA, which I think is the basis for its reputation.

But I agree with the spirit of the post. It's moronic to pay anywhere near sticker UCH nowadays. The c/o 2012 had a 50% employment rate at graduation. It's ludicrous that a school would require raking up $150k in debt for those odds. It's just plain stupid for people to enroll knowing that.


Oh yeah, the spirit is right on. I just don't believe Mr. One Post when the whole thing reads like a TLS essay on life of a hypothetical Hastings grad.

Doesn't really matter, I support the post. Those schools need to shape up or be shut down, anything that steers students away from attending I'm all for.

joblessgrad
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby joblessgrad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:26 pm

This poster is very real, unfortunately. It was my first post, yes, in part because I never saw much value in endlessly ruminating on "is x better than y" or sharing anecdotes about wait lists or strategies for applications. But I figured the voice of someone who made the mistake of going to Hastings might actually be powerful enough to dissuade others from doing the same. And I don't give two shits whether you doubt my existence, even though when I look at my loan statements I doubt that jumping off a fucking bridge or faking my own death is a bad idea. I am an example of one of the many intelligent people hoodwinked by the law school Ponzi scheme. Most if not all of my classmates still buy into the hope that it's not true, and that they can make the money they expected. I'm no longer that vain.

joblessgrad
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby joblessgrad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:33 pm

One more comment: pretty soon there won't be disappointed elitists at Hastings, they'll all be at Davis or Irvine instead, and Hastings will have made its final spiral down the toilet bowl of all rankings publications. And don't mistake that for an endorsement of Davis or Irvine, because those two have their own problems, the biggest of which is lack of regional mobility. At least I can beg a Hastings alum for work statewide.
Last edited by joblessgrad on Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:41 pm

Lulz, now I definitely don't think you're real.

Doesn't matter though, the message is good and there are very real stories just like this. 0Ls, if you're reading this- Don't go to either of these schools.

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Mick Haller
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Mick Haller » Tue Dec 10, 2013 7:50 pm

BigZuck wrote:Lulz, now I definitely don't think you're real.

Doesn't matter though, the message is good and there are very real stories just like this. 0Ls, if you're reading this- Don't go to either of these schools.


Second this. way too much "festering toilet" type language. Definitely one of those scambloggers with a dozen alts.

I do know many real Hastings people in trouble. It's a bad risk/reward scenario.

joblessgrad
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby joblessgrad » Tue Dec 10, 2013 8:11 pm

I'm not vapid enough to give my name. Rather than bolstering your own sense of authority as to this forum by claiming to determine who isn't real, simply evaluate the merits of what I am saying. The toilet metaphor may be overused, but it is for good reason regardless of the hyperbole involved. Don't go anywhere less than a t14 school unless you are obsessed with practicing law.




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