UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

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Moonlight
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UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 2:57 pm

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Nova
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Nova » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:02 pm

Both these schools give you less than a 50% chance of practicing law. Attending either school is stacking the deck against yourself. What are you numbers?

In regard to salaries, those are reported salaries only. For class of 2011, less than 20% of Santa Claras class reported and less than half of Hastings class reported. You really cant draw any conclusions based on that.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby MoMettaMonk » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:12 pm

More than 40% of both of these schools most recent classes don't have long term, full time work 9 months after graduation. And both of them cost over $200,000 at sticker. To be honest, even at $0 cost of attendance I don't think those are particularly great odds. That being said, my real advice is to go to neither of these schools and try to improve your candidacy by retaking the LSAT.

If I had to recommend one I would say that if employment statistics are comparable then you have to go to the school that is the best fit for you, and the school that will be most helpful in you getting a job as a lawyer. Ask around the community that you want to work for suggestions, visit the schools and ask students about the career development office. Basically what I'm saying is you have to do some in person research.

Also yes, don't pay attention to those salary statistics, with few exceptions there's a whole lot of bullshit there.

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:19 pm

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby MoMettaMonk » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:46 pm

Moonlight wrote:
Nova wrote:Both these schools give you less than a 50% chance of practicing law. Attending either school is stacking the deck against yourself. What are you numbers?

In regard to salaries, those are reported salaries only. For class of 2011, less than 20% of Santa Claras class reported and less than half of Hastings class reported. You really cant draw any conclusions based on that.


Thanks to both of you for your responses! My numbers are a reverse splitter. 3.74/3.78 (cum/major) and then a 159 LSAT. Yea I know the LSAT ain't pretty.

I want to practice law in the Nor Cal/ Bay Area so that's why I have these two regional schools in the mix. Out of curiosity, what do you two think of Hastings and Santa Clara if I can get a full ride or near full ride? Considering I came out of undergrad debt free (full ride at a liberal arts school)


FTFY

The most important thing that you can remember is that you only get one shot at law school. Generally speaking there are no re-dos. With the legal market the way that it is, this is not the time to take huge risks with a legal education. A 3.74 means that with the right LSAT you can be competitive at every single school in the country.

If you want to work in Nor Cal you should be focused on Berkeley and Stanford, and then the rest of the t14. Unless you have a very specific plan to open your own firm, work at a family firm, or some other niche plan that most students aren't going after that only requires you to get any law degree, then you're putting yourself at a large disadvantage out of the gate by attending one of these two schools instead of maximizing your LSAT.

Speaking of the LSAT, a 159 might not be great on this site, but you've already beat the majority of takers. Unless you studied properly for a year plus and that's the highest score you ever got on a PT, I would bet that you could break into the high 160s or 170s.

whatsyourdeal
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby whatsyourdeal » Tue Oct 08, 2013 3:55 pm

Having lived in the Bay for half my life, and also having gone to law school in that region, PM me if you want further details.

But I agree with the above poster re: GPA. that's a terriblly high gpa to waste. get into Boalt or Stanford with that thing. Otherwise, you probably will be able to finagle substantial money from SCU (not sure about Hastings)

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Nova
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Nova » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:11 pm

Santa Clara scholarships require you to be in the top 25% of the class to retain it.

So you would likely lose it and end up paying sticker.

There's basically no situation where going there would be a good bet.

whatsyourdeal
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby whatsyourdeal » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:18 pm

Nova wrote:Santa Clara scholarships require you to be in the top 25% of the class to retain it.

So you would likely lose it and end up paying sticker.

There's basically no situation where going there would be a good bet.


Not all. From my friends who went there, they were able to either negotiate it out or received the IP fellow (full ride, no stip, + 1L summer job)

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Nova
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Nova » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:27 pm

Ah. My mistake

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ManoftheHour
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Oct 08, 2013 4:32 pm

Santa Clara with $$$ if you get get those stips dropped.

Don't go to Yu See HasTTTTings.

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:00 pm

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Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:02 pm

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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:04 pm

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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:05 pm

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hiima3L
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby hiima3L » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:06 pm

Hastings c/o 2012 grad here.

Don't go to either. Trust me on this. The market, especially in the Bay Area, is really, really, really bad. I cannot emphasize this enough. You are looking at a <10% shot of a job that will be able to service the debt required at these schools.

Retake the LSAT.

If you absolutely cannot (I don't know why this would happen), then go to whichever gives you the most money. It'll make no difference either way if you go to SCU or UCH.

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Nova
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Nova » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:09 pm

hiima3L wrote:Retake the LSAT.

+1

Are you studying for Dec?

whatsyourdeal
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby whatsyourdeal » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:24 pm

hiima3L wrote:Hastings c/o 2012 grad here.

Don't go to either. Trust me on this. The market, especially in the Bay Area, is really, really, really bad. I cannot emphasize this enough. You are looking at a <10% shot of a job that will be able to service the debt required at these schools.

Retake the LSAT.

If you absolutely cannot (I don't know why this would happen), then go to whichever gives you the most money. It'll make no difference either way if you go to SCU or UCH.


TITCR. wherever throws you the most money, b/c the bay area legal market is absolutely horrible.

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cotiger
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:31 pm

Moonlight wrote:
Oh thanks! So splitter is high lsat and low gpa then? So I should say reverse splitter in future?

Yea true I am pretty fond of my GPA, but I've never been a particularly good test taker...my highest practice score was I think a 165 after a semester's prep.

I'm definitely staying Nor Cal because I am the only child to a single parent family amongst other reasons, but that's the more personal life reason. Financially at least I save on living cost I suppose by staying in this area only.

Thanks for the encouragement. The 159 certainly isn't pretty considering everyone else's scores here. But I know from my school I'm at the top end because that report thing they generate says my school average is 150.....don't ask lol.


If you can get even a 165, that gives you a prayer's chance at Berkeley and a pretty good shot at USC, probably with a bit of money. I don't know how USC places into NorCal, but I would imagine that you have a significantly higher chance of ending up with a good result there than you would with stip-laden offers from Hastings or Santa Clara.

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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Oct 08, 2013 5:59 pm

Lots of misconceptions ITT unless schools have drastically changed their admissions tactics/scholarship offers.

165 will not get the OP into Berkeley. If the OP is a vanilla candidate (not strong softs/diversity) they are going to need a 170+, more realistically probably like a 172+ to have a good shot at Cal.

Also, I had a slightly higher LSAT and GPA when I applied to these two schools and I got 8.5K a year at Santa Clara and 11.5K at Hastings (which was the need grant that basically everyone got). Again, unless things have changed the OP won't get anything close to a worthwhile scholarship with those numbers.

Personally, I wouldn't go to either of those schools, period. I guess maybe if they were completely and totally free and you were ok with working at a small firm and you were locked in to staying in Northern CA then maybe you could roll the dice. I think Hastings is the better school in pretty much every way but the employment stats are too terrible to justify attending IMO.

Retake and if you're set on going to school in Northern CA then you have got to find a way in to Berkeley somehow (Stanford I assume will be virtually impossible).

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ManoftheHour
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:07 pm

Moonlight wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:Santa Clara with $$$ if you get get those stips dropped.

Don't go to Yu See HasTTTTings.


TTTT = Tier 4?

Btw would you be interested in giving me the reason you recommend Santa Clara with $$$ over Hastings? And what about if both are about same package wise for financials?

So is the concensus that SCU full ride trumps Hastings?


Same package, gun to my head, I'd go to UCH. But that's extremely unlikely. UC system is broke as fuck.

Also, even if you get the same package, living in SF is expensive as fuck. I'm sure it's more expensive than Santa Clara.

Your odds on employment and quality of employment are going to be similar for both.

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ManoftheHour
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby ManoftheHour » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:09 pm

Moonlight wrote:My numbers are a splitter. 3.74/3.78 (cum/major) and then a 159 LSAT. Yea I know the LSAT ain't pretty.


I didn't read this part. The only answer is to retake. You're not a splitter. You're a "reverse splitter" which = person that needs to retake.


Moonlight wrote:Yea true I am pretty fond of my GPA, but I've never been a particularly good test taker...my highest practice score was I think a 165 after a semester's prep.


I think you can do it. Cop that 165 and you'll be sitting a lot prettier. 3.74/165 is worlds better than 3.74/159.

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cotiger
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 08, 2013 6:40 pm

BigZuck wrote:
165 will not get the OP into Berkeley. If the OP is a vanilla candidate (not strong softs/diversity) they are going to need a 170+, more realistically probably like a 172+ to have a good shot at Cal.



Absolutely. When I said he has a prayer's chance at Berkeley with a 165, I meant that there's a chance that his softs are like top 20% for that level (and thus could get in). We don't know what his softs are like.

Moonlight
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:06 pm

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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby Moonlight » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:08 pm

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hephaestus
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Re: UC Hastings v.s. Santa Clara?

Postby hephaestus » Tue Oct 08, 2013 8:11 pm

Moonlight wrote:
Nova wrote:
hiima3L wrote:Retake the LSAT.

+1

Are you studying for Dec?


No. Another LSAT class isn't in my budget right now, plus I already applied.

Going to either of these schools shouldn't be in your budget either. Why spend 200k because you wouldn't spend another $150?




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