University of Miami law.

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californiauser
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby californiauser » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:10 pm

Jan 14 wrote:
Yazzzay wrote:What are people's thoughts on choosing Miami with a half scholarship or choosing Wake Forest/Maryland/UNC/similar with no money?

Miami at half price today is a sensational deal. A couple years ago, not so much because the Miami legal market was decimated. However, the upside of the crash is that housing in south florida is affordable, as in, half price from ’09 days. I do not know about the other schools you noted, but I can say that the south florida legal market now has legs and if you like the Fla lifestyle, UM is as good as it gets.


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=miami

UM is not worth 6 figures of loans.

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:28 pm

californiauser wrote:http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=miami UM is not worth 6 figures of loans.

Not challenging its accuracy, just noting it is outdated info from ’12. During the last year the south florida legal market has undergone a notable upswing (careful not to say “surge,” but surge could be appropriate). In the case where the poster stated a 50% discount, it’s a no-brainer. Not saying that there isn’t a better deal to be had at UF/FSU (both great schools) but living in Miami versus Gainesville/Tallahassee is also a no-brainer.

rad lulz
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:06 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby timbs4339 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:29 pm

Jan 14 wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
Jan 14 wrote:Now that the legal economy is turning the corner, South Florida firms have swung their doors wide open to Miami grads...including the major BL firms operating in Miami.


How many summer associate positions were there at South Florida biglaw firms last year? You get a cookie if you can show it's even 50.

I’ll give you your point since I do not know. I can say that not everyone I know received a summer position. However, I have several friends who did and EVERYONE was offered. With only one exception the salary met or exceeded $120K. To me that income is BL... in spite of whatever definition one claims is BL.

Even I, a non LR student was recently offered BL in DC (turned it down… too damn cold…plus I’d have to make $186K to match my COL). As you may already know, Miami (like Hawaii) is unfairly treated as far as COL. It is not that bad for a metro, especially one where today’s temp is 65 and sunny.


Usually everyone gets offered, the exception being that year the economy tanked in between "days of hiring 120 person summer classes" and "days that resemble the biglaw version of the Road." Students need to know how many of your classmates got offered, because as you said the school is really really expensive and is stingy with the schollies.

The fact that you don't actually know how many summer associate positions there are in Miami (and you really have no basis for your statement that the SF legal market has totes turned around except that some other sector of the economy seems to be doing something) makes the advice you are giving ITT, respectfully, horseshit.

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:34 pm

rad lulz wrote:
Jan 14 wrote:
californiauser wrote:http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=miami UM is not worth 6 figures of loans.

Not challenging its accuracy, just noting it is outdated info from ’12. During the last year the south florida legal market has undergone a notable upswing (careful not to say “surge,” but surge could be appropriate). In the case where the poster stated a 50% discount, it’s a no-brainer. Not saying that there isn’t a better deal to be had at UF/FSU (both great schools) but living in Miami versus Gainesville/Tallahassee is also a no-brainer.

Stop giving out life ruining advice

68° & Sunny. Ready to prep for the bar to start at a great firm. So what’s your deal… OL looking for a mythical guarantee or are you stuck with some personal less than gratifying horror story that has nothing to do with south florida?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:44 pm

Jan 14 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Jan 14 wrote:
californiauser wrote:http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=miami UM is not worth 6 figures of loans.

Not challenging its accuracy, just noting it is outdated info from ’12. During the last year the south florida legal market has undergone a notable upswing (careful not to say “surge,” but surge could be appropriate). In the case where the poster stated a 50% discount, it’s a no-brainer. Not saying that there isn’t a better deal to be had at UF/FSU (both great schools) but living in Miami versus Gainesville/Tallahassee is also a no-brainer.

Stop giving out life ruining advice

68° & Sunny. Ready to prep for the bar to start at a great firm. So what’s your deal… OL looking for a mythical guarantee or are you stuck with some personal less than gratifying horror story that has nothing to do with south florida?

Oh, look, you found paradise so absolutely everyone else will be able to find paradise as well.

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:12 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Oh, look, you found paradise so absolutely everyone else will be able to find paradise as well.

It’s not about me finding paradise, I was born in Fla… it’s a given. My point is that Miami legal is no longer in the dumper. However, maybe what I am saying is doing nothing other than encouraging people to sign into a program that should be cut be a good 150 seats. So yeah, drive up north to t14 land, the northeast is wonderful in the summer and BL firms jobs are yours for the asking. Works for me. Thanks mouse.

rad lulz
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby rad lulz » Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:34 pm

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Last edited by rad lulz on Thu Sep 08, 2016 11:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Yazzzay
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Yazzzay » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:19 pm

nebula666 wrote:
Yazzzay wrote:What are people's thoughts on choosing Miami with a half scholarship or choosing Wake Forest/Maryland/UNC/similar with no money?


I don't understand why any of these schools are even in the same sentence except for Wake/UNC. Do you have significant ties to Maryland, NC, and Florida? I'm confused. Don't go to Wake/UNC/Maryland at sticker.

If you want to work in Florida, UM for half price is still too expensive IMO. UM at half off is still more expensive than UF and FSU at sticker.


Actually do have ties in maryland, and florida, not in NC. Not the slightest bit interested in UF/FSU. no idea where i want to work so basically open to anything now, just trying to decide if some debt is worth it at any school. Actually only into one right now, so I'm over thinking everything already.

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Winston1984
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Winston1984 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 4:24 pm

Jan 14 wrote:
Yazzzay wrote:What are people's thoughts on choosing Miami with a half scholarship or choosing Wake Forest/Maryland/UNC/similar with no money?

Miami at half price today is a sensational deal. A couple years ago, not so much because the Miami legal market was decimated. However, the upside of the crash is that housing in south florida is affordable, as in, half price from ’09 days. I do not know about the other schools you noted, but I can say that the south florida legal market now has legs and if you like the Fla lifestyle, UM is as good as it gets.


Please stop.

tiltedwindmill
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby tiltedwindmill » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:13 pm

raininthedesert wrote:There are enormous misconceptions in the TLS world about law schools in Florida that make the various threads laughable at best. To suggest that Florida Law or Florida State Law are "better" schools than MIami Law is patently incorrect in almost all facets -- geographic portability, alumni base, faculty scholarship, etc. The only truly rational and objective perspective that I've read is what every future law student in every state around this country should already know: if you are going to attend law school at all in this economy and do not receive substantive scholarships then you should attend an accredited school with the lowest cost of attendance...which would be the public state school options. However, if Miami Law offers a significant scholarship, the reality is that it's better located than UF and has equal to -- if not better -- resources than both UF and Florida State and actually has a very strong reputation within Florida and, of course, South Florida. In fact, I work with quite a few who are in big law.

The fact that Miami Law is a private institution with a high sticker price doesn't mean that it be needlessly defamed. Any law school with an entering class of 300+ students and LSAT scores in its accompanying range are going to end up with a larger percentage of the class who aren't successful in the marketplace. Who knows why the school doesn't restrict its numbers but it's obvious that if the administrators wanted to play the U.S. News game that they could easily shrink the class size to under 200 and sit comfortably within the Top 50 law schools alongside the William & Mary, Boston College, and Wake Forest law schools of the world.

It's simply confounding how TLS has created a world of T-14 to attempt to justify the inclusion of the U VA's, U Michigan's, and Northwestern's of the world. There are only a handful of national portable brands: Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Stanford, and Columbia.


The legal market of Florida is so undersupplied that Miami just thought that a 300+ wave of newly minted graduates would be the respectable thing to do, and, by god, they are not going to restrict the people they admit just based on their LSAT score!

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sun Jan 19, 2014 10:06 am

Jan 14 wrote:68° & Sunny.


Dude, we get it. You like the weather in Miami. That's not something that most people should really consider in choosing a law school. Now, if you're saying that hiring in Miami has picked up and UM students are getting jobs at a significantly higher rate, great. THAT'S something worth considering, if next year's stats bear it out.

timbs4339
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Jan 20, 2014 1:59 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
Jan 14 wrote:68° & Sunny.


Dude, we get it. You like the weather in Miami. That's not something that most people should really consider in choosing a law school. Now, if you're saying that hiring in Miami has picked up and UM students are getting jobs at a significantly higher rate, great. THAT'S something worth considering, if next year's stats bear it out.


You don't get it. The fact that the weather is so great means the legal market is also great because businesses like pleasant weather (that's why New York and Chicago are veritable deserts of business activity). And it's counter-cyclical because there will be plenty of legal work when the next C5 comes and wrecks the whole peninsula.

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romothesavior
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby romothesavior » Mon Jan 20, 2014 2:12 pm

Jan 14 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Jan 14 wrote:Not challenging its accuracy, just noting it is outdated info from ’12. During the last year the south florida legal market has undergone a notable upswing (careful not to say “surge,” but surge could be appropriate). In the case where the poster stated a 50% discount, it’s a no-brainer. Not saying that there isn’t a better deal to be had at UF/FSU (both great schools) but living in Miami versus Gainesville/Tallahassee is also a no-brainer.

Stop giving out life ruining advice

68° & Sunny. Ready to prep for the bar to start at a great firm. So what’s your deal… OL looking for a mythical guarantee or are you stuck with some personal less than gratifying horror story that has nothing to do with south florida?

Actually, he's a gainfully employed lawyer in the state of Florida who knows as much as anyone on TLS about the Florida market.

But yeah dude, please tell us more about how the warm sun and Miami beaches make UM worth six-figures in student loan debt.

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SailorMoon9543
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby SailorMoon9543 » Wed Jan 22, 2014 10:31 am

raininthedesert wrote:Agreed "californiauser" but that justification unfortunately trickles over to matriculants with no specific ties to or interest in those regions who attend at full sticker price. No argument that they are very good regional schools (certainly not "great").

I attended Columbia and work in Big Law so I don't feel that "out of touch" with objective advice. My only issue, as someone who works with quite a few talented attorneys who didn't attend a T14, is with the unabashed vitriol toward lower tier schools outside of rational and objective advice (much of which I certainly agree with at every level).


"Raininthedesert" : I tried to reply to your PM but I think you have it disabled?

MisterGabriel
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby MisterGabriel » Tue Apr 01, 2014 5:45 pm

Welcome back everyone.

US news showed UM jumping over 15 spots in ranking. What do you guys think this is attributable to? Is this negligible or is it a sign of a positive upward trend?

Considering the fact that I'm a local and want to practice in south fl, I think UM with a good scholarship offer is not a bad choice at all. I was offered $20k/YR stip'd under the condition that I stay in the top half of my class - doesn't sound like the nightmare stipulations people speak about in the forum.

nebula666
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby nebula666 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:36 pm

MisterGabriel wrote:Welcome back everyone.

US news showed UM jumping over 15 spots in ranking. What do you guys think this is attributable to? Is this negligible or is it a sign of a positive upward trend?

Considering the fact that I'm a local and want to practice in south fl, I think UM with a good scholarship offer is not a bad choice at all. I was offered $20k/YR stip'd under the condition that I stay in the top half of my class - doesn't sound like the nightmare stipulations people speak about in the forum.


So your scenario is (1) keep scholarship and pay ~170k or (2) lose scholly and pay ~230k. That doesn't seem like a great deal for a decent shot at a midlaw job in south florida where the CoL is incredibly high.

But hey, you know better than us so have fun!

timbs4339
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Apr 01, 2014 6:45 pm

MisterGabriel wrote:Welcome back everyone.

US news showed UM jumping over 15 spots in ranking. What do you guys think this is attributable to? Is this negligible or is it a sign of a positive upward trend?

Considering the fact that I'm a local and want to practice in south fl, I think UM with a good scholarship offer is not a bad choice at all. I was offered $20k/YR stip'd under the condition that I stay in the top half of my class - doesn't sound like the nightmare stipulations people speak about in the forum.


The schools in that range are all smushed together. Jumps are attributable more to random statistical variation between class years than anything else. Maybe Miami did better in some NCAA tournament and more people they sent the rep survey to recalled them. It's all noise.

MisterGabriel
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby MisterGabriel » Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:14 pm

nebula666 wrote:
MisterGabriel wrote:Welcome back everyone.

US news showed UM jumping over 15 spots in ranking. What do you guys think this is attributable to? Is this negligible or is it a sign of a positive upward trend?

Considering the fact that I'm a local and want to practice in south fl, I think UM with a good scholarship offer is not a bad choice at all. I was offered $20k/YR stip'd under the condition that I stay in the top half of my class - doesn't sound like the nightmare stipulations people speak about in the forum.


So your scenario is (1) keep scholarship and pay ~170k or (2) lose scholly and pay ~230k. That doesn't seem like a great deal for a decent shot at a midlaw job in south florida where the CoL is incredibly high.

But hey, you know better than us so have fun!


Thanks for sharing.

First of all, I never said I knew better than the rest of you guys... Assuming of course that this body of people you refer to as "us" share your poor mathematical skills.
I would be living at home, so COL would not be a factor in debt. Under those conditions, I calculate about $72k of debt - not counting interest of course. I'm not sure where you're getting the other $100k, but I'm sure you know better than me.




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