University of Miami law.

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rad lulz
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:33 am

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californiauser
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby californiauser » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:19 am

raininthedesert wrote:There are enormous misconceptions in the TLS world about law schools in Florida that make the various threads laughable at best. To suggest that Florida Law or Florida State Law are "better" schools than MIami Law is patently incorrect in almost all facets -- geographic portability, alumni base, faculty scholarship, etc. The only truly rational and objective perspective that I've read is what every future law student in every state around this country should already know: if you are going to attend law school at all in this economy and do not receive substantive scholarships then you should attend an accredited school with the lowest cost of attendance...which would be the public state school options. However, if Miami Law offers a significant scholarship, the reality is that it's better located than UF and has equal to -- if not better -- resources than both UF and Florida State and actually has a very strong reputation within Florida and, of course, South Florida. In fact, I work with quite a few who are in big law.

The fact that Miami Law is a private institution with a high sticker price doesn't mean that it be needlessly defamed. Any law school with an entering class of 300+ students and LSAT scores in its accompanying range are going to end up with a larger percentage of the class who aren't successful in the marketplace. Who knows why the school doesn't restrict its numbers but it's obvious that if the administrators wanted to play the U.S. News game that they could easily shrink the class size to under 200 and sit comfortably within the Top 50 law schools alongside the William & Mary, Boston College, and Wake Forest law schools of the world.

It's simply confounding how TLS has created a world of T-14 to attempt to justify the inclusion of the U VA's, U Michigan's, and Northwestern's of the world. There are only a handful of national portable brands: Yale, Harvard, Penn, Chicago, Stanford, and Columbia.


Are you a TTT graduate? It's the T14 because those schools place extremely well in their respective markets. Sure, UVA might not have much pull in Colorado or Oregon, but the majority of students at MVPBDNC are going to target the feeder market for each given school.

raininthedesert
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby raininthedesert » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:29 am

Agreed "californiauser" but that justification unfortunately trickles over to matriculants with no specific ties to or interest in those regions who attend at full sticker price. No argument that they are very good regional schools (certainly not "great").

I attended Columbia and work in Big Law so I don't feel that "out of touch" with objective advice. My only issue, as someone who works with quite a few talented attorneys who didn't attend a T14, is with the unabashed vitriol toward lower tier schools outside of rational and objective advice (much of which I certainly agree with at every level).

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:03 am

Miami is a remarkable law school, especially if you want to live in South Florida. (True, Miami is stingy with its scholly money and they need to reduce the class size.)

Now that the legal economy is turning the corner, South Florida firms have swung their doors wide open to Miami grads...including the major BL firms operating in Miami.
If someone wants to spend three years in Gainesville or Tallahassee, fine.
Side note. Hard to compare Miami to the northeastern schools since those students are interested in NYC, DC, Philly, Boston, etc. Strange as it is, perhaps not everyone likes working in the tropics.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 17, 2014 2:04 am

raininthedesert wrote:Agreed "californiauser" but that justification unfortunately trickles over to matriculants with no specific ties to or interest in those regions who attend at full sticker price. No argument that they are very good regional schools (certainly not "great").

I attended Columbia and work in Big Law so I don't feel that "out of touch" with objective advice. My only issue, as someone who works with quite a few talented attorneys who didn't attend a T14, is with the unabashed vitriol toward lower tier schools outside of rational and objective advice (much of which I certainly agree with at every level).

Keep in mind the vitriol is not directed at those who attend lower tier schools so much as it is directed at the schools themselves, which often charge ridiculously high tuition for a not-very-good chance at a job worth the investment. Almost no one here says that attending such a school means a given individual can't turn out to be an exceedingly talented lawyer (I say almost because there can always be a few misanthropes); the concern is that even the most talented lawyer-to-be won't get a very good chance to show that talent if they choose a law school unwisely.

timbs4339
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 12:17 pm

Jan 14 wrote:Now that the legal economy is turning the corner, South Florida firms have swung their doors wide open to Miami grads...including the major BL firms operating in Miami.


How many summer associate positions were there at South Florida biglaw firms last year? You get a cookie if you can show it's even 50.

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:29 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Jan 14 wrote:Now that the legal economy is turning the corner, South Florida firms have swung their doors wide open to Miami grads...including the major BL firms operating in Miami.


How many summer associate positions were there at South Florida biglaw firms last year? You get a cookie if you can show it's even 50.

I’ll give you your point since I do not know. I can say that not everyone I know received a summer position. However, I have several friends who did and EVERYONE was offered. With only one exception the salary met or exceeded $120K. To me that income is BL... in spite of whatever definition one claims is BL.

Even I, a non LR student was recently offered BL in DC (turned it down… too damn cold…plus I’d have to make $186K to match my COL). As you may already know, Miami (like Hawaii) is unfairly treated as far as COL. It is not that bad for a metro, especially one where today’s temp is 65 and sunny.

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PepperJack
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby PepperJack » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:32 pm

For a take on Miami's scholarships, here is a personal aside:

Got a phone call asking why I was retaking "a high LSAT". I said to be more competitive for scholarships. I got rejected.

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:12 pm

PepperJack wrote:For a take on Miami's scholarships, here is a personal aside:

Got a phone call asking why I was retaking "a high LSAT". I said to be more competitive for scholarships. I got rejected.

Oh yeah, that is a downside of the “U.” They suck at scholarships. When I saw the discounts from a few t14s I assumed Miami was at my mercy. Never happened (nowhere to the extent I thought it would). I’ve heard tell their resistance is called “the sunshine tax.”

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JCougar
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby JCougar » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:24 pm

raininthedesert wrote:The fact that Miami Law is a private institution with a high sticker price doesn't mean that it be needlessly defamed. Any law school with an entering class of 300+ students and LSAT scores in its accompanying range are going to end up with a larger percentage of the class who aren't successful in the marketplace. Who knows why the school doesn't restrict its numbers but it's obvious that if the administrators wanted to play the U.S. News game that they could easily shrink the class size to under 200 and sit comfortably within the Top 50 law schools alongside the William & Mary, Boston College, and Wake Forest law schools of the world.


So I don't get it.

It seems like what you're saying here is, "Miami Law costs way too much and admits too many students, and also graduates a large percentage of the class that ends up being unsuccessful in the marketplace. And if the administrators had any morals and respect for their own students, they'd take action to reduce enrollment and enhance the school's reputation so that its graduates wouldn't be so screwed."

Ummm...that's the entire point, and you just dismiss it as an afterthought. Seems like you agree with everyone on TLS, but yet TLS is wrong because "Miami!"

rad lulz
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:04 pm

m
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Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:31 pm

JCougar wrote:
raininthedesert wrote:The fact that Miami Law is a private institution with a high sticker price doesn't mean that it be needlessly defamed. Any law school with an entering class of 300+ students and LSAT scores in its accompanying range are going to end up with a larger percentage of the class who aren't successful in the marketplace. Who knows why the school doesn't restrict its numbers but it's obvious that if the administrators wanted to play the U.S. News game that they could easily shrink the class size to under 200 and sit comfortably within the Top 50 law schools alongside the William & Mary, Boston College, and Wake Forest law schools of the world.


So I don't get it.

It seems like what you're saying here is, "Miami Law costs way too much and admits too many students, and also graduates a large percentage of the class that ends up being unsuccessful in the marketplace. And if the administrators had any morals and respect for their own students, they'd take action to reduce enrollment and enhance the school's reputation so that its graduates wouldn't be so screwed."

Ummm...that's the entire point, and you just dismiss it as an afterthought. Seems like you agree with everyone on TLS, but yet TLS is wrong because "Miami!"


Yep, afterthought is pretty much the deal….tropical, sunny, fun lovin’ MIAMI.
If UF or FSU had opened its doors in South Florida, the “U” would have died in Gainesville/Tallahassee with its high cost and bloated class size. That said, those who walk out with a JD and a good offer have no regrets… none.
(okay, maybe one, the Miami football teams are pretty crappy).

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jk148706
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby jk148706 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:31 pm

Jan 14 wrote:Miami is a remarkable law school, especially if you want to live in South Florida. (True, Miami is stingy with its scholly money and they need to reduce the class size.)

Now that the legal economy is turning the corner, South Florida firms have swung their doors wide open to Miami grads...including the major BL firms operating in Miami.
If someone wants to spend three years in Gainesville or Tallahassee, fine.
Side note. Hard to compare Miami to the northeastern schools since those students are interested in NYC, DC, Philly, Boston, etc. Strange as it is, perhaps not everyone likes working in the tropics.


Omg

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JCougar
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby JCougar » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:37 pm

Jan 14 wrote:
JCougar wrote:
raininthedesert wrote:The fact that Miami Law is a private institution with a high sticker price doesn't mean that it be needlessly defamed. Any law school with an entering class of 300+ students and LSAT scores in its accompanying range are going to end up with a larger percentage of the class who aren't successful in the marketplace. Who knows why the school doesn't restrict its numbers but it's obvious that if the administrators wanted to play the U.S. News game that they could easily shrink the class size to under 200 and sit comfortably within the Top 50 law schools alongside the William & Mary, Boston College, and Wake Forest law schools of the world.


So I don't get it.

It seems like what you're saying here is, "Miami Law costs way too much and admits too many students, and also graduates a large percentage of the class that ends up being unsuccessful in the marketplace. And if the administrators had any morals and respect for their own students, they'd take action to reduce enrollment and enhance the school's reputation so that its graduates wouldn't be so screwed."

Ummm...that's the entire point, and you just dismiss it as an afterthought. Seems like you agree with everyone on TLS, but yet TLS is wrong because "Miami!"


Yep, afterthought is pretty much the deal….tropical, sunny, fun lovin’ MIAMI.
If UF or FSU had opened its doors in South Florida, the “U” would have died in Gainesville/Tallahassee with its high cost and bloated class size. That said, those who walk out with a JD and a good offer have no regrets… none.
(okay, maybe one, the Miami football teams are pretty crappy).


Yeah, but I can go on vacation to Miami. And I don't have to ruin my career to do it.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby TheSpanishMain » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:38 pm

Jan 14 wrote: That said, those who walk out with a JD and a good offer have no regrets… none.


Well, sure. Those who leave with a good offer obviously feel good about it. It's like saying, "No one who wins the lottery regrets buying the ticket." That's true of every law school. The question is what percentage of the class that describes.

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:52 pm

JCougar wrote:Yeah, but I can go on vacation to Miami.

Great plan. Work 18 hour days in drabbyville so you can visit Miami three weeks a year. Don’t forget to visit Joe’s Stone Crab and south beach. GTK: Fountainebleu was recently remodeled…the bleu always welcome BL dinero.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 17, 2014 8:11 pm

Humidity? Ick, I'll pass.

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vicpin5190
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JCougar
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby JCougar » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:10 pm

Jan 14 wrote:
JCougar wrote:Yeah, but I can go on vacation to Miami.

Great plan. Work 18 hour days in drabbyville so you can visit Miami three weeks a year. Don’t forget to visit Joe’s Stone Crab and south beach. GTK: Fountainebleu was recently remodeled…the bleu always welcome BL dinero.


I've been to Miami several times. It's got about a week's worth of things to do, and then you get bored. South Beach is possibly one of the coolest neighborhoods in the US, but the rest of the city is kind of run down.

Plus, you have Rick Scott as your governor. So you lose.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:13 pm

vicpin5190 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:Humidity? Ick, I'll pass.



I'd take humidity over snow and cold 365 days of the week.

I didn't realize the alternative was the Arctic Circle.

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vicpin5190
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Postby vicpin5190 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:16 pm

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Yazzzay
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Yazzzay » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:08 am

What are people's thoughts on choosing Miami with a half scholarship or choosing Wake Forest/Maryland/UNC/similar with no money?

nebula666
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby nebula666 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 9:52 am

Yazzzay wrote:What are people's thoughts on choosing Miami with a half scholarship or choosing Wake Forest/Maryland/UNC/similar with no money?


I don't understand why any of these schools are even in the same sentence except for Wake/UNC. Do you have significant ties to Maryland, NC, and Florida? I'm confused. Don't go to Wake/UNC/Maryland at sticker.

If you want to work in Florida, UM for half price is still too expensive IMO. UM at half off is still more expensive than UF and FSU at sticker.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Jan 18, 2014 10:29 am

Yazzzay wrote:What are people's thoughts on choosing Miami with a half scholarship or choosing Wake Forest/Maryland/UNC/similar with no money?


All options are more expensive than I'm comfortable with. I would go to Miami for free or Wake/UNC for no more than, say, 20k in debt. And that's assuming I had ties to both South Florida and North Carolina, which seems odd.

Jan 14
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Re: University of Miami law.

Postby Jan 14 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 12:06 pm

Yazzzay wrote:What are people's thoughts on choosing Miami with a half scholarship or choosing Wake Forest/Maryland/UNC/similar with no money?

Miami at half price today is a sensational deal. A couple years ago, not so much because the Miami legal market was decimated. However, the upside of the crash is that housing in south florida is affordable, as in, half price from ’09 days. I do not know about the other schools you noted, but I can say that the south florida legal market now has legs and if you like the Fla lifestyle, UM is as good as it gets.




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