Fordham Law School?

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hephaestus
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby hephaestus » Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:07 pm

fordhamlawagent wrote:Yes, seeing as there are only a handful of agents in the industry, and getting these jobs is virtually impossible - I'd definitely say my result was atypical.

I wasn't posting on the site to tell everyone that going to Fordham guarantees you a job as a top-paying agent. I'm only trying to dispell some of the myths that are prevalant on this board which accomplosh nothing except for discouraging people from going to law school (outside the T-14 that is).

My point is that going to Fordham opened a lot of doors for me and obviously I had to take advantage of them in order to succeed. To say it's T-14 or bust though (especially for someone such as this who wants to use his law degree in other fields) is just complete nonsense. A law degree is valuable in any industry and creative, hard-working, and social people can have great careers after law school.

You sound like an adcom. The truth is that a large percentage of fordham's grads are unemployed or unemployed, and your anecdote doesn't make that any less true.

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lgleye
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby lgleye » Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:27 pm

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:56 pm

Someone who finishes below median at Fordham is worse than 50/50 to even find legal work (which more than a third of Fordham's class does not do).

Notice that Mr. Fordham Moneybags did not ever claim the average Fordham student will be able to service his/her debt.

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Danger Zone
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Danger Zone » Thu Oct 24, 2013 12:31 am

fordhamlawagent wrote:After 3 years here, yes, I am making well over half a million. And Fordham did that for me.

First off, no you aren't. Second, I want to reiterate that you most certainly are not. And finally, Fordham can be a good investment in some circumstances, but you'd be delusional to think this is a typical (or even possible) outcome.

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jingosaur
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby jingosaur » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:38 am

Danger Zone wrote:
fordhamlawagent wrote:After 3 years here, yes, I am making well over half a million. And Fordham did that for me.

First off, no you aren't. Second, I want to reiterate that you most certainly are not. And finally, Fordham can be a good investment in some circumstances, but you'd be delusional to think this is a typical (or even possible) outcome.


If he's a sports agent at a very generous sports agency and he's getting about $50 million in contracts inked per year, then he is making that much. There's also a chance that he's making half a million in REVENUE for his company, which is highly plausible and means that he's getting about $200k in salary, which is a possible outcome for a Fordham Law grad. Unfortunately, if you're one of the 75% who doesn't hit BigLaw at Fordham, you're pretty screwed.

fordhamlawagent
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby fordhamlawagent » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:39 am

Danger Zone wrote:
fordhamlawagent wrote:After 3 years here, yes, I am making well over half a million. And Fordham did that for me.

First off, no you aren't. Second, I want to reiterate that you most certainly are not. And finally, Fordham can be a good investment in some circumstances, but you'd be delusional to think this is a typical (or even possible) outcome.



Just want to make sure that any potential Fordham students don't take seriously the ill-informed opinions of people like Danger Zone (who probably hasn't even graduated law school yet but feels qualified to register his opinion on my salary).

As I said, my outcome is very atypical - I was lucky enough to secure an internship at an agency during my 2L summer that turned into a full-time job. That being said, I want to make clear that Fordham is NOT the feast or famine school TLS makes it out to be. The reporting data used in this thread is incomplete and to think that only 40% of Fordham grads have jobs is ridiculous. This is not Touro Law, OK.


As I said earlier, and as others have also mentioned on this thread, Fordham has a great reputation in NY and if this is the market you want to be in then even being around median at Fordham will land you a job somewhere (maybe not through EIW or OCI, but only 10% of students get their jobs from there anyway). Also, living in NY during law school was a great and worthwhile experience in itself and I enjoyed all 3 of my years at Fordham and so did all my friends. Everyone I know from my class is working somewhere (some in biglaw, some in shitlaw, some in gov't).


Please don't let the elitist and pessimistic 0L/1Ls that plague this board actually influence your decision on where to go to law school. And please, don't listen to me either and decide that Fordham is a worthwhile investment. I only came on here to give the viewers a side of the story that is completely missing from this thread, from someone who ACTUALLY went to Fordham. Going to law school is a huge decision, and you should consult your friends, family and professional network (and NOT TLS or the US News Ranking).

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Ramius
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Ramius » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:49 am

fordhamlawagent wrote:
Danger Zone wrote:
fordhamlawagent wrote:After 3 years here, yes, I am making well over half a million. And Fordham did that for me.

First off, no you aren't. Second, I want to reiterate that you most certainly are not. And finally, Fordham can be a good investment in some circumstances, but you'd be delusional to think this is a typical (or even possible) outcome.



Just want to make sure that any potential Fordham students don't take seriously the ill-informed opinions of people like Danger Zone (who probably hasn't even graduated law school yet but feels qualified to register his opinion on my salary).

As I said, my outcome is very atypical - I was lucky enough to secure an internship at an agency during my 2L summer that turned into a full-time job. That being said, I want to make clear that Fordham is NOT the feast or famine school TLS makes it out to be. The reporting data used in this thread is incomplete and to think that only 40% of Fordham grads have jobs is ridiculous. This is not Touro Law, OK.


As I said earlier, and as others have also mentioned on this thread, Fordham has a great reputation in NY and if this is the market you want to be in then even being around median at Fordham will land you a job somewhere (maybe not through EIW or OCI, but only 10% of students get their jobs from there anyway). Also, living in NY during law school was a great and worthwhile experience in itself and I enjoyed all 3 of my years at Fordham and so did all my friends. Everyone I know from my class is working somewhere (some in biglaw, some in shitlaw, some in gov't).


Please don't let the elitist and pessimistic 0L/1Ls that plague this board actually influence your decision on where to go to law school. And please, don't listen to me either and decide that Fordham is a worthwhile investment. I only came on here to give the viewers a side of the story that is completely missing from this thread, from someone who ACTUALLY went to Fordham. Going to law school is a huge decision, and you should consult your friends, family and professional network (and NOT TLS or the US News Ranking).


Why do you continue to discount the data? I agree that talking to family, friends and professional peers is important because they can help you assess your current finances, options, etc.. The fact remains that few people are truly informed about the state of legal hiring in this environment, even some people like possibly your peers who are only a few years out from graduation. As a 0L, you absolutely should look at things like LST to help make your decision, because it's the best tool we've got at determining outcomes for recent graduates. No one on here is saying that NO ONE should go to Fordham or any particular school in general. Most people on here have the goal of making sure the members of TLS are making fully informed decisions. Data is the best thing we can rely on and I'd argue the most important thing a law school candidate can use to help make their decision. Your anecdotes are nice, but they aren't hard and fast fact.

I think your side of the arguement is helpful in that it should force someone reading it to question every source of information at their disposal and really figure out what is best for them. Every person is different and everyone's calculus is different in determining whether law school is a sound investment. Don't let your anecdotes trick you into making the same mistake many 0L's make in using confirmation bias. Things worked out well for you, so it can work out for others. It's true, but it's not helpful in making a wise, well-informed decision.

Steveloblaw
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby Steveloblaw » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:56 am

The BS is strong in this one

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vicpin5190
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby vicpin5190 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:12 am

Man after reading all this stuff on Fordham it has gone from a potential to not even on my list. meh.

It's scary how this site has just opened my eyes to a lot of things that I didn't initially consider.

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jingosaur
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby jingosaur » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:27 am

vicpin5190 wrote:Man after reading all this stuff on Fordham it has gone from a potential to not even on my list. meh.

It's scary how this site has just opened my eyes to a lot of things that I didn't initially consider.


Yeah, the fact that it's the third best law school in NYC really lures people in. In a good legal economy, it's actually a fantastic school and the stuff that fordhamagent is saying actually holds water. Unfortunately the legal economy sucks in NY right now and nobody knows whether it will be strong ever again.

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vicpin5190
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby vicpin5190 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:46 am

jingosaur wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:Man after reading all this stuff on Fordham it has gone from a potential to not even on my list. meh.

It's scary how this site has just opened my eyes to a lot of things that I didn't initially consider.


Yeah, the fact that it's the third best law school in NYC really lures people in. In a good legal economy, it's actually a fantastic school and the stuff that fordhamagent is saying actually holds water. Unfortunately the legal economy sucks in NY right now and nobody knows whether it will be strong ever again.



Yeah, I'm mean initial reading made it seem like a great alternative, and if the market wasn't the way it is I still think it is, but this isn't like UG and I'm not sure I'm willing to place the bet of being in the top 10% at this point, not that I don't think i can't make it but so does everyone else who will be attending a school at it's level. I'm not necessarily Big Law or bust but if they're as stingy with scholarships as I've heard, i'm not looking to take out massive debt only to not be able to land a top job and not be able to realistically pay it off. If the legal market were better I think a lot of what is said in favor holds weight. It's a shame that the market has become such that going to these Tier 1 institution like this, that I think would make for a good choice in a good market, is now a much riskier bet with uncertain outcomes. I wish it was like undergrad where you could go to Party U. and if you put in good effort even there you could still have a great outcome.

timbs4339
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 2:22 pm

vicpin5190 wrote:
jingosaur wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:Man after reading all this stuff on Fordham it has gone from a potential to not even on my list. meh.

It's scary how this site has just opened my eyes to a lot of things that I didn't initially consider.


Yeah, the fact that it's the third best law school in NYC really lures people in. In a good legal economy, it's actually a fantastic school and the stuff that fordhamagent is saying actually holds water. Unfortunately the legal economy sucks in NY right now and nobody knows whether it will be strong ever again.



Yeah, I'm mean initial reading made it seem like a great alternative, and if the market wasn't the way it is I still think it is, but this isn't like UG and I'm not sure I'm willing to place the bet of being in the top 10% at this point, not that I don't think i can't make it but so does everyone else who will be attending a school at it's level. I'm not necessarily Big Law or bust but if they're as stingy with scholarships as I've heard, i'm not looking to take out massive debt only to not be able to land a top job and not be able to realistically pay it off. If the legal market were better I think a lot of what is said in favor holds weight. It's a shame that the market has become such that going to these Tier 1 institution like this, that I think would make for a good choice in a good market, is now a much riskier bet with uncertain outcomes. I wish it was like undergrad where you could go to Party U. and if you put in good effort even there you could still have a great outcome.


If more people made this simple realization then this whole law school problem would be over. Fordham isn't special, and the fact that it's located in NYC means precisely jack since any place with a lot of high paying law firm jobs comes a lot of qualified people trying to break into the market (see also D.C., Washington). Like any other school ranked roughly 14-100 it can still be a good bet with the right amount of money and no stips.

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lgleye
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby lgleye » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:54 pm

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PepperJack
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby PepperJack » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:10 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:
jingosaur wrote:
vicpin5190 wrote:Man after reading all this stuff on Fordham it has gone from a potential to not even on my list. meh.

It's scary how this site has just opened my eyes to a lot of things that I didn't initially consider.


Yeah, the fact that it's the third best law school in NYC really lures people in. In a good legal economy, it's actually a fantastic school and the stuff that fordhamagent is saying actually holds water. Unfortunately the legal economy sucks in NY right now and nobody knows whether it will be strong ever again.



Yeah, I'm mean initial reading made it seem like a great alternative, and if the market wasn't the way it is I still think it is, but this isn't like UG and I'm not sure I'm willing to place the bet of being in the top 10% at this point, not that I don't think i can't make it but so does everyone else who will be attending a school at it's level. I'm not necessarily Big Law or bust but if they're as stingy with scholarships as I've heard, i'm not looking to take out massive debt only to not be able to land a top job and not be able to realistically pay it off. If the legal market were better I think a lot of what is said in favor holds weight. It's a shame that the market has become such that going to these Tier 1 institution like this, that I think would make for a good choice in a good market, is now a much riskier bet with uncertain outcomes. I wish it was like undergrad where you could go to Party U. and if you put in good effort even there you could still have a great outcome.


If more people made this simple realization then this whole law school problem would be over. Fordham isn't special, and the fact that it's located in NYC means precisely jack since any place with a lot of high paying law firm jobs comes a lot of qualified people trying to break into the market (see also D.C., Washington). Like any other school ranked roughly 14-100 it can still be a good bet with the right amount of money and no stips.

It's geographic preference. If you want NYC, WUSTL is much harder. I'm sure Fordham also gets a lot of people who could have went to Cornell but are too lazy to move to Ithaca or have a spouse in NYC who can't move.

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vicpin5190
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby vicpin5190 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 6:31 pm

PepperJack wrote:It's geographic preference. If you want NYC, WUSTL is much harder. I'm sure Fordham also gets a lot of people who could have went to Cornell but are too lazy to move to Ithaca or have a spouse in NYC who can't move.



I feel like if your goal was to stay in St. Louis with WUSTL, you'd actually find it to be a great ROI. In my experience there, St. Louisians are pretty loyal to the city and if you show general interest that you want really want to stay and work there, and obviously if you have school performance, it is a city that is a lot more forgiving in terms of allowing you to crack into it. Plus the cheap COL, I see WUSTL as a great choice for being in St. Louis. But I agree, choosing WUSTL for NYC definitely doesn't make sense, and you should know that going in. Sorry that's off topic in Fordham but i felt like it was a good thing to add to this.

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lgleye
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby lgleye » Fri Oct 25, 2013 11:12 am

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IpleadtheFiF
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby IpleadtheFiF » Sat Oct 26, 2013 2:15 pm

jingosaur wrote:Yeah, the fact that it's the third best law school in NYC really lures people in. In a good legal economy, it's actually a fantastic school and the stuff that fordhamagent is saying actually holds water. Unfortunately the legal economy sucks in NY right now and nobody knows whether it will be strong ever again.


This initial thought may be applicable to smaller, more insular markets but NYC biglaw is attracting graduates from the entire T14. A large percentage of Yale, Harvard, UPenn, Cornell, and Duke graduates (plus the ones from Columbia and NYU) are vying for those jobs. If you are a hiring partner at Goldstein Robinson-or-wherever, why would a Fordham grad even be on your radar unless he/she was OotC and/or EIC of law review?

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lgleye
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby lgleye » Sat Oct 26, 2013 3:48 pm

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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby cahwc12 » Sat Oct 26, 2013 8:23 pm

It's really sad that a brand new account with the name "fordhamlawagent" who speaks to the positives of fordham law in magical christmas land gets this many serious replies.

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lgleye
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby lgleye » Sat Oct 26, 2013 11:13 pm

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MrAnon
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby MrAnon » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:06 pm

I went to Fordham. I have a good, non-lawyer job in the field I was in before I went to law school. I finished at the median, struck out at OCI, and decided I didn't go to lawyer for a starting salary of 55k in the NY metro area (with loan payments of nearly $1,000/mo for 25 years I would have been living in poverty), which is what I saw the average student was getting at small firms in NJ and on Long Island. A couple pieces of advice:

1. If you are headed to Fordham because you have to be in NYC or can't leave NYC right now, think carefully. Like I said, the best job options you find at graduation might be somewhere in central NJ or in Nassau county. Is that what you want in life?

2. The Fordham name doesnt carry any special cachet with big law firms in the city. Its the best local school in a legal market that deals in nationally ranked schools (read T-14). You want NYC biglaw? Go to the T-14. If you have the right stuff, you'll make it. If you don't, you'll be glad you avoided Fordham.

3. I'm having loads more professional success than any number of my lawyer friends. My future is rosier too. Think really carefully about law school in this day and age.

4. 100k in tuition loans from the federal government means you will owe over 200k on a 25 year IBR or PAYE repayment plan. Do the math on the interest before you borrow that money.
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twenty
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby twenty » Sun Nov 03, 2013 1:29 am

MrAnon, do you feel like your law degree helped at all getting back into/getting promoted in your pre law school field? Would it be worthwhile for someone to go to Fordham on, say, a full ride on the assumption that while there's a good chance they don't get a legal job, the benefit of having a law degree might make up for it?

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TheWeeIceMon
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby TheWeeIceMon » Sun Nov 03, 2013 2:33 am

fordhamlawagent wrote:Please, for the love of all things holy, do not base a decision as important as this on ANYTHING you read on this blog. This place is mostly for former T-14ers who are miserable with their decision to go to law school and like to come on to random boards to make others feel shitty about going to a less "elite" school. It's total nonsense.

I went to Fordham Law and it was the best decision of my life. Did I get on Law review? No. Did I finish below median? Yes. (2011)

Fordham has tons of respect with all the big firms here in NYC and also with all the big businesses. I got a job working with the top sports agency in the world out of Fordham Law and am making 4 times what my friends in big law are making (and working much better hours and having more fun too). In fact, had I gone to a more "elite" school (and please, give me a break with these phony US News rankings), I would NOT have gotten a job here because of the mostly true stigma of kids coming out of those schools (big ego, poor social skills). Almost all of the agents who are lawyers went to schools ranked 50-200 and they're the top agents in the field (see, Tom Condon, Ben Dogra etc.). Having a law degree gets you a pay bump in any field you go into and makes you seem much more legitimate in any negotiation. It's TOTALLY worth it, regardless if you make big law or not.

Think of it this way: Say you live for only 20 more years after law school, do you think you will make $10,000 more per year than you would have without a law degree. Smart money says "Yes." If you want to go to law school, do it; don't listen to these pessimistic and egotistical anonymous posters who probably couldn't even have a conversation with you in person. Do it, and Fordham is a GREAT school with great professors and awesome students. You can't go wrong.


Nice try john1990.

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby MrAnon » Sun Nov 03, 2013 8:28 am

twentypercentmore wrote:MrAnon, do you feel like your law degree helped at all getting back into/getting promoted in your pre law school field? Would it be worthwhile for someone to go to Fordham on, say, a full ride on the assumption that while there's a good chance they don't get a legal job, the benefit of having a law degree might make up for it?


Did my law degree aide me in any way to get back in old field or get promoted? I am pretty certain it was viewed as neutral in my hiring. They would have easily hired a candidate without a law degree but I just happened to have better experience in the field than anyone they interviewed. I was soon promoted after I was hired. I am sure that had NOTHING to do with the law degree because I know for a fact the manager who promoted me had not even seen my resume as he admitted as much. In fact when he found out he said "well please don't leave to go be a lawyer anytime in the next 10 years". So that should tell you how non-law people think. And by the way that says a lot right there for the value of a law degree or grad school generally, which you'll never hear the grad school promoters say, which is that experience and competence counts for everything.

I really really strongly feel that if you don't want to be a lawyer, you shouldn't go to law school, and if you don't have a plan in place to repay $200k in loans then you shouldn't borrow them. "A plan in place" = virtual certain biglaw through a family connection or else matriculation at Harvard, Yale, Stanford or similar.

MrAnon
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Re: Fordham Law School?

Postby MrAnon » Mon Nov 04, 2013 9:37 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:MrAnon, do you feel like your law degree helped at all getting back into/getting promoted in your pre law school field? Would it be worthwhile for someone to go to Fordham on, say, a full ride on the assumption that while there's a good chance they don't get a legal job, the benefit of having a law degree might make up for it?


Always remember that the law degree, especially from this level of school, is not going to enhance your employability for a non-law job. If its between you, inexperienced + law degree, and another guy (3 years experience + no law degree), guess who is snagging the position?




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