Good Corporate/Business law programs?

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amc5769
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Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby amc5769 » Sat Sep 21, 2013 11:42 pm

I'm currently a Sr. undergrad, graduating spring 14'. I'm majoring in Corporate Finance at Penn State University.

I'm highly interested in Business law and one day would like to start my own financial/legal advisory firm.

My question is that I'm looking for a school with a good business law program but very selective about where I want to live, looking for recommendations.

Right now my #1 choice is University of Oregon, because I have a very high up connection that can get me an entry level post-grad job.



Right now I have a 3.1 GPA and have not yet taken the LSAT.

jptw88
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby jptw88 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:08 am

All law schools offer the same ABA required law curriculum. All law degrees are J.D.s which require 3 years of study. If you are interested in business/corporate law then you would take 2nd year and 3rd electives that focus on transactional law rather than litigation. Law schools don't offer Business/Corporate law degrees.

If you have aspirations of practicing as a corporate lawyer prior to starting you own venture then you should seriously consider attending the highest rank law school that offers you admission. Almost all firm recruiting is based on U.S. News Law School rankings.

In addition to law school ranking, firm recruiting is also determined by grades and class rank. Your law school transcript will follow you throughout your legal career, even when you apply for lateral positions.

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amc5769
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby amc5769 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:31 am

thanks for the info!

I've just heard that many schools boast about their different studies of law they offer with "business law" as an option....aka not that big.

Are there any school that are well known for their transaction law curriculum offered vs. other areas?

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jbagelboy
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:35 am

If you want to start a financial advisory firm:

Work in financial consulting or banking for 2-3 years, get an MBA, and hire attorneys to advise you on any gaps in knowledge in financial law.

You probably need to apply now for fall interviews and recruitment, although with a 3.1 it's gonna be a tough market for you.

Whatever happens, dont go to the University of Oregon law.

tachikara
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby tachikara » Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:00 am

You're looking at this problem from the wrong perspective. Don't look for a school with the "best" curriculum. Look for a school with the best job prospects for corporate law. There's no point going to a school with a fantastic program in "business law" if only 15% of people are able to get jobs in that field.

ETA: if you are literally GUARANTEED a post-graduation job in the field that you would love to be in, then go wherever is cheapest. However, if you want big law you probably are not guaranteed that job, and thus need to go to the school with the best job prospects. Looking at Oregon, 0.6% of students got a firm job... http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=oregon

timbs4339
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:27 pm

How strong is this connection? Usually, you shouldn't go to a school you wouldn't be comfortable graduating median from. You seem to want something in the biglaw sphere which is going to be very hard to get from Oregon.

Your goals sound like something you need to work in finance or consulting to get, not law.

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thesealocust
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby thesealocust » Sun Sep 22, 2013 12:29 pm

Best corporate law programs, in no particular order:

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
Penn
Berkeley
Michigan
Virginia
Cornell
Northwestern
Duke
Georgetown

None of the rest are very good at placing students into corporate/business law jobs.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:39 pm

thesealocust wrote:Best corporate law programs, in no particular order:

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
Penn
Berkeley
Michigan
Virginia
Cornell
Northwestern
Duke
Georgetown

None of the rest are very good at placing students into corporate/business law jobs.


I see what you did there.

californiauser
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby californiauser » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:46 pm

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=oregon

Only 37% of Oregon grads are becoming lawyers and less than 1% are doing large scale corporate/finance work.

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bombaysippin
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby bombaysippin » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:45 pm

MoMettaMonk wrote:
thesealocust wrote:Best corporate law programs, in no particular order:

Yale
Harvard
Stanford
Columbia
Chicago
NYU
Penn
Berkeley
Michigan
Virginia
Cornell
Northwestern
Duke
Georgetown

None of the rest are very good at placing students into corporate/business law jobs.


I see what you did there.

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amc5769
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby amc5769 » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:44 pm

I'm currently doing an internship at an investment banking & capital management firm to kinda get some experience in the finance field.

I'm not really sure if I want a job in biglaw working at a firm, but like an in-house legal/financial position.

Unfortunately I screwed around my freshman year of college and got a D in a business elective class which f**ked my GPA up...I may retake it next semester to boost up my GPA.


as far as the connection....it's my father's fiance who is a CEO for a healthcare corp in Oregon.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby JamMasterJ » Sun Sep 22, 2013 9:47 pm

amc5769 wrote:I'm currently doing an internship at an investment banking & capital management firm to kinda get some experience in the finance field.

I'm not really sure if I want a job in biglaw working at a firm, but like an in-house legal/financial position.

Unfortunately I screwed around my freshman year of college and got a D in a business elective class which f**ked my GPA up...I may retake it next semester to boost up my GPA.


as far as the connection....it's my father's fiance who is a CEO for a healthcare corp in Oregon.

this won't affect the original grade for LSAC. Both grades count in full.

timbs4339
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:47 am

Unfortunately, in-house work usually requires you to work in biglaw first. You get no training in corporate law during law school that would be valuable to a company and they rely on firms to train you up.

The first thing I'd do, before applying is to ask your Dad's fiance some specific questions about her company or ask her to put you in touch with the firm's general counsel. Ask questions like: how big is the legal team? How many attorneys have they hired in the last 5 years? How many are recent grads? Do they hire people straight out of law school? If they have young attorneys, where did they go to school, what firms did they work for? Be very specific and don't accept answers like "well, you seem like a smart kid, you'll land on your feet wherever you go, you can send me a resume in three years, now screw off."
Last edited by timbs4339 on Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:51 am

Also, not totally relevant to OP's question, but I'm posting since this is as good a time as any:

A Day in the Life of a "Business Lawyer"


8:00 AM: Awaken in penthouse apartment. Daily routine of crunches you started in law school- you’re up to 1000 now. Pick from closet full of dark, expensive tailored suits.

9:30: Arrive at corner office in Midtown high-rise. Three years of law school has allowed you an insight into the legal system that other bankers don’t have, and you see that your short position in a company that was the subject of an adverse Supreme Court decision has paid off handsomely.

10:30: Brunch with other Business Lawyers at the Four Seasons. Every single person is wearing a dark suit. Seriously. Everyone.

12:30: Lunch meeting with private detective at Wolfgang’s about missing colleague. You chalk it up to that UVa Law thing. He was probably a softball enthusiast who drank a lot of cheap beer. That whole UVa Law thing.

2:00: Receive a hot tip that a company is going to vote to stagger their board of directors. Thanks to acing corporations in law school, you’re the only one at the firm who knows that this means they will be harder to take over in the future. Get the “stats guys” on it, and spread a rumor that their CEO is planning to sell the company to the Japanese.

4:50: Deft knowledge of securities laws gained from week spent on the subject in SecReg in law school allows you to avoid SEC disclosure requirements that have been around since 1933. By market close you own 51% of the company. You’ve hardly wrinkled your suit.

9:00: Dinner at Le Bernardin with former colleagues from finance internship. Their suits aren’t as nice as yours, and when you pick up the $1500 check you know they’ll all be enrolling in law school next year.

11:30PM: Table service with other Business Lawyers at Pacha. Everyone’s still in suits. Stereotypically blonde model leans over and asks you what you do. “Business law” you say. Strangely, the model seems non-plussed. “Excuse me, but it says here that your balance is currently below zero…”

10:30AM: “…and we can’t authorize any further withdrawals.” You snap out of your daydream. You’re first in line at a Citi branch in Manhattan, KY, where you relocated to take a 40K staff attorney job reviewing purchase agreements (they liked your corporations grade!). Everyone is wearing flip-flops and drinking 44 oz. sodas. As the teller politely reminds you that this is the fifth time you’ve overdrafted in the last three months (damn student loans) you briefly wonder what her head would look like on a spike.

DISCLAIMER: Because some 0L is going to read this and think it’s satire with a large nugget of truth, you will not become a banker by going to law school. If you want to go into “business”- go into business. All that it takes to get into an above average American law school is knowing how to read good and think good and write real good too. The crap they teach you in law school is utterly worthless in the business world. No, reading a case about 10b-5 is not going to help you get a job at Goldman when they are hiring rocket scientists who can design complex models to detect how subtle price movements in the market for medium grade Korean rice affect the yield on 10-year Lithuanian bonds. If you’re lucky, and go to a T13 or finish top 10% at most other law schools, you might get to work at a biglaw firm and assemble closing documents for aforementioned rocket scientists.

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sinfiery
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby sinfiery » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:27 am

Don't go to law school if your current goals stay what they are unless you break a 167-169+ on the LSAT and break the T14 with what is hopefully a non-negligible scholarship.



As for how nepotism changes the equation, can't help you there. But if you are relying on only that to get a job, what school you go to really shouldn't matter. Only the cost of the school should.

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cahwc12
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby cahwc12 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:19 am

sinfiery wrote:Don't go to law school if your current goals stay what they are unless you break a 167-169+ on the LSAT and break the T14 with what is hopefully a non-negligible scholarship.



As for how nepotism changes the equation, can't help you there. But if you are relying on only that to get a job, what school you go to really shouldn't matter. Only the cost of the school should.


Have admissions requirements really fallen so far in the last two years that a 3.1/167 is enough to crack the T14 with no-stips scholarship?

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guano
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby guano » Thu Sep 26, 2013 8:26 am

amc5769 wrote:one day would like to start my own financial/legal advisory firm.

Fuck law school. Go work for Ameriprise. Build a client base. Then start your own firm. Profit

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sinfiery
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby sinfiery » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:18 am

cahwc12 wrote:Have admissions requirements really fallen so far in the last two years that a 3.1/167 is enough to crack the T14 with no-stips scholarship?

They do crack the T14 but receiving a scholarship with a 3.1 will be difficult at any law school you attend (WUTSLc/o16 withheld)

But there is some merit to the idea of scholarships based on financial needs. They just aren't very large scholarships. Maybe 5-10k a year.

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Stanford4Me
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby Stanford4Me » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:35 am

Honestly it doesn't sound like law school is the best path for you. Very few companies hire in-house counsel directly out of law school, and many of the (major) ones who do recruit from the T14. If you're dead set on going, and you're convinced your father's fiance can get you a job with her company, then go to the cheapest school you can get into. Otherwise, I think you should work for a year or two and then get an MBA.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:36 am

guano wrote:
amc5769 wrote:one day would like to start my own financial/legal advisory firm.

Fuck law school. Go work for Ameriprise. Build a client base. Then start your own firm. Profit

Telling someone that is no different from telling them to take a full ride to a TT and work hard to finish top 10% after 1L.

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guano
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby guano » Thu Sep 26, 2013 10:40 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
guano wrote:
amc5769 wrote:one day would like to start my own financial/legal advisory firm.

Fuck law school. Go work for Ameriprise. Build a client base. Then start your own firm. Profit

Telling someone that is no different from telling them to take a full ride to a TT and work hard to finish top 10% after 1L.

I agree, but it's lot cheaper than to attend a professional school that is only tangentially related to what s/he wants to do. If someone wants to own a restaurant, they should go work in a restaurant. Want to own a garage, start as a mechanic.

If you want to own your own business in X field, go get a job in that field

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amc5769
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby amc5769 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:49 pm

I've been pondering a lot whether I want to do MBA, JD or both concurrently, still not sure what I'd like to do.


I was thinking maybe try to get a job on the dark side (SEC). Avg salary for a lawyer is over $100k.

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guano
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby guano » Thu Sep 26, 2013 5:58 pm

amc5769 wrote:I've been pondering a lot whether I want to do MBA, JD or both concurrently, still not sure what I'd like to do.


I was thinking maybe try to get a job on the dark side (SEC). Avg salary for a lawyer is over $100k.

Just don't be a k-mba

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amc5769
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby amc5769 » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:25 pm

dunno what that is

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guano
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Re: Good Corporate/Business law programs?

Postby guano » Thu Sep 26, 2013 6:29 pm

amc5769 wrote:dunno what that is

An MBA is not like a JD. It's not an entry to a profession. Rather, it's (usually) to get you from lower or middle management to beyond. With very few exceptions, pushing an MBA should only be done to further an existing career




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