Harvard vs Y and S

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Ti Malice
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:07 am

cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.


I'll bet you know a lot more people who chose H over Y than people who actually chose H over Y.

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RELIC
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby RELIC » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:10 am

cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.

You seem like a terrible person so I think you made the right decision.

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby SteelPenguin » Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:51 am

cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.


Lol, what a truly terrible choice. You won't go very far in life if you keep making decisions like that. :roll:

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:16 am

Clearly wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
tidymnstr wrote:AWK, ATL ranks UT & Vandy above GULC.


...people are going to be citing the ATL rankings as if they're some sort of authority or representative of a sound methodology for a while, aren't they?

Jesus.

For the purposes of actually choosing a law school, I'd argue they are better than USNWR...which we cite every day.


Okay, sure, they're better in the same way stepping in gum is better than stepping in wet cement. But they should still face the same ridicule as if someone were to say "You should go to Michigan over Duke because #9 > #11."

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DrStudMuffin
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby DrStudMuffin » Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:36 am

Ti Malice wrote:
cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.


I'll bet you know a lot more people who chose H over Y than people who actually chose H over Y.


A valid point, but it is likely true that plenty of people choose H (and definitely S) over Y. Whether Y is noticeably better than H really depends on your goals (ex: JD/MBA is significantly better at H) , and New Haven sucks.

As a 0L, I personally would be ecstatic to have any of the three options.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby jbagelboy » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:45 am

RELIC wrote:
cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.

You seem like a terrible person so I think you made the right decision.


SteelPenguin wrote:
cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.


Lol, what a truly terrible choice. You won't go very far in life if you keep making decisions like that. :roll:


Lol why all the hate. Theres no reason someone couldn't take Harvard over Yale

AllTheLawz
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby AllTheLawz » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:51 am

JamMasterJ wrote:CLS/NYU are equal(ish) to H for NYC big firm hiring. No one says that one or the other is equal to H for other things. The difference between H and YS has more to do with the options available to the bottom of the class at the other two as opposed to H.


I'll never understand why people parrot this thinking with so much authority. Anyone who has been through EIP at any of HYS will tell you that "bottom of the class" is not an indicator of how its going to turn out. In general, if you strike out at any of HYS you probably would have struck out at the others (Yes, people strike out at Y).

NYstate
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby NYstate » Sat Aug 31, 2013 11:51 am

I don't know what Harvard hate you are talking about. People debate turning down full rides to Chicago or Columbia just to go to Harvard.

If you are talking about the mention of the huge class size, then that is true. Harvard does have a large class.

Mostly I see 0Ls willing to do anything to be able to drop the Harvard name.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:15 pm

NYstate wrote:I don't know what Harvard hate you are talking about. People debate turning down full rides to Chicago or Columbia just to go to Harvard.

If you are talking about the mention of the huge class size, then that is true. Harvard does have a large class.

Mostly I see 0Ls willing to do anything to be able to drop the Harvard name.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen anyone "bash" Harvard. I'd be interested to see any post with anything approximating a criticism of Harvard when compared to other schools, because I don't think I've ever seen one.

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wiz
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby wiz » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:29 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
NYstate wrote:I don't know what Harvard hate you are talking about. People debate turning down full rides to Chicago or Columbia just to go to Harvard.

If you are talking about the mention of the huge class size, then that is true. Harvard does have a large class.

Mostly I see 0Ls willing to do anything to be able to drop the Harvard name.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen anyone "bash" Harvard. I'd be interested to see any post with anything approximating a criticism of Harvard when compared to other schools, because I don't think I've ever seen one.


I remember reading threads on here where people would argue that Chicago was better than Harvard.

And by people, I mean TaipeiMort.

20141023
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby 20141023 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:21 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Dolphine
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Dolphine » Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:26 pm

Stanford is actually the TTT of HYS

http://www.cooley.edu/rankings/overall2010.html

PRgradBYU
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby PRgradBYU » Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:32 pm

kwais wrote:You have made one of the worst threads on TLS.

poke800ash
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:44 pm

NYstate wrote:I don't know what Harvard hate you are talking about. People debate turning down full rides to Chicago or Columbia just to go to Harvard.

If you are talking about the mention of the huge class size, then that is true. Harvard does have a large class.

Mostly I see 0Ls willing to do anything to be able to drop the Harvard name.


I was referring specifically to the seemingly inexplicable distinction that many here tries to make between Harvard as compared to Yale/Stanford on some vague notion that Harvard is either too big (if you read JS, it seems that the resources available in the big H is proportional to its student population), it attracts prestige mongers (based on anecdotal evidences at best), or that it offers less employment security with regards to Y and S which doesn't seem right according to the published data. I am not discussing the harvard slandering in an isolated context but with regards to the positive perception that more people here generally hold for Stanford and Yale. If I were lucky enough to receive money from a ccn and an acceptance from harvard, I would be in a great conundrum as well. People generally believe that harvard is in a different league as compared to ccn (the validity of this belief is up to debate) but I am bewildered by people on this site as to why they view Harvard so negatively as compared to its peers.

poke800ash
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Sat Aug 31, 2013 4:56 pm

kwais wrote:Harvard's class size is not "quite a bit below the law school average." And you yourself just said you'd choose Y/S over H on class size alone. You have made one of the worst threads on TLS.


Just to clarify, the reason as to why I would choose Y/S over H is due to the fact that I have spent my entire academic career in a large class setting. I didn't have the luxury to go to some private liberal arts college with less that 10,000 undergrad, my public university had close to 50,000 undergrads on campus and they admit more undergrads in a year than the total number of ug population in harvard and yale combined. For elementary and high school, I spent those year in places operating at close to 100% overcapacity which is why I want to experience something different in law school and I just can't figure out why most people who went to private schools would attack Harvard for its student population without any personal experience on the matter. (PS. after 16 years in large classes, I still think they can be an effective learning environment and would suggest it to anyone who never had the opportunity to study under such an atmosphere.)

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:22 pm

The distinction I see people make most often here is that H's admissions are a bit more predictable than Y & S. It's not like it's easy to get into H, but everyone talks about H as more of a sure thing if you have the right numbers, whereas even if you have the top numbers, you might get dinged from Y & S - you can't tell. Don't know how much difference that makes in general perception, though.

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Cicero76
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Cicero76 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:06 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
NYstate wrote:I don't know what Harvard hate you are talking about. People debate turning down full rides to Chicago or Columbia just to go to Harvard.

If you are talking about the mention of the huge class size, then that is true. Harvard does have a large class.

Mostly I see 0Ls willing to do anything to be able to drop the Harvard name.


Yeah, I don't think I've ever seen anyone "bash" Harvard. I'd be interested to see any post with anything approximating a criticism of Harvard when compared to other schools, because I don't think I've ever seen one.

Ummm.... I think you're forgetting this guy... and this event.



Holy shitballs that first link PDF is the single greatest thing I have ever read.

Some might argue that Harvard's low-income protection plan is an "assurance" of sorts, but it pales in comparison to programs like the [Florida Coastal] Assured Outcomes Partnership because it doesn't cover those that never graduate law school.


Many law-school graduates coming from "lower-ranked" schools are unable to find decent work because they are kept out of the market by underachievers at "higher-ranked" institutions who are flooding the market.


WHY DOES THIS NOT HAVE ITS OWN THREAD????? SOMEONE PLEASE LINK ME TO THE THREAD THAT MAKES FUN OF THIS. Or at least an ATL article. Come on, something?

20141023
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby 20141023 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:11 pm

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Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MoMettaMonk
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby MoMettaMonk » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:15 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
Cicero76 wrote:WHY DOES THIS NOT HAVE ITS OWN THREAD????? SOMEONE PLEASE LINK ME TO THE THREAD THAT MAKES FUN OF THIS. Or at least an ATL article. Come on, something?

This is the first time he was mentioned on TLS (to my knowledge), but I like to bring him up every now and then just for the lulz (like here, or here, for example).


Lloyd Jackson might be the funniest thing I've ever read on TLS. This (and any) thread is better because of his presence.

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sinfiery
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby sinfiery » Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:56 pm

AllTheLawz wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:CLS/NYU are equal(ish) to H for NYC big firm hiring. No one says that one or the other is equal to H for other things. The difference between H and YS has more to do with the options available to the bottom of the class at the other two as opposed to H.


I'll never understand why people parrot this thinking with so much authority. Anyone who has been through EIP at any of HYS will tell you that "bottom of the class" is not an indicator of how its going to turn out. In general, if you strike out at any of HYS you probably would have struck out at the others (Yes, people strike out at Y).


Right, but in general, given the way the three schools differentiate their class profiles (Yale apparently being able to hit a 177/3.97 median and SLS being very ambivalent about numbers) you will probably have a noticeable difference in the resumes of those who are at the bottom of the class at these schools in favor of YLS/SLS. And thus likely a better outcome when in this situation.

Now, of course, this assumes it is the students who decide their outcome but we all realize it is a combination of your schools reputation and what you do.


So I think there is a definite downside to the large class size of HYS and we at TLS are somewhat risk averse which perpetuates the YSH but it will always be YSH, not HCCN or YSHC.

The one pro that I think would make me decide HLS over YS would be that if you are at the very top of your class at HLS, you should feel pretty great about your options relative to someone at the very top of their school at YS. For some, this trumps every other consideration and I could see people picking HLS for this reason.


As far as NYC biglaw is concerned though, CLS/NYU are basically equal to HLS. That part seems true, +/- the fact that the best candidates from HLS likely don't venture into those type of jobs but it is still very close as far as their placement is concerned.

AllTheLawz
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby AllTheLawz » Sat Aug 31, 2013 7:31 pm

sinfiery wrote:
AllTheLawz wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:CLS/NYU are equal(ish) to H for NYC big firm hiring. No one says that one or the other is equal to H for other things. The difference between H and YS has more to do with the options available to the bottom of the class at the other two as opposed to H.


I'll never understand why people parrot this thinking with so much authority. Anyone who has been through EIP at any of HYS will tell you that "bottom of the class" is not an indicator of how its going to turn out. In general, if you strike out at any of HYS you probably would have struck out at the others (Yes, people strike out at Y).


Right, but in general, given the way the three schools differentiate their class profiles (Yale apparently being able to hit a 177/3.97 median and SLS being very ambivalent about numbers) you will probably have a noticeable difference in the resumes of those who are at the bottom of the class at these schools in favor of YLS/SLS. And thus likely a better outcome when in this situation.

Now, of course, this assumes it is the students who decide their outcome but we all realize it is a combination of your schools reputation and what you do.


So I think there is a definite downside to the large class size of HYS and we at TLS are somewhat risk averse which perpetuates the YSH but it will always be YSH, not HCCN or YSHC.

The one pro that I think would make me decide HLS over YS would be that if you are at the very top of your class at HLS, you should feel pretty great about your options relative to someone at the very top of their school at YS. For some, this trumps every other consideration and I could see people picking HLS for this reason.


As far as NYC biglaw is concerned though, CLS/NYU are basically equal to HLS. That part seems true, +/- the fact that the best candidates from HLS likely don't venture into those type of jobs but it is still very close as far as their placement is concerned.


Again, I don't get why people speak with so much authority when they have no clue what they are talking about. When I was choosing between law schools I didn't have a HLS resume, a YLS resume and a SLS resume. I had one resume that would be the exact same at each school. If what you say about resumes at the bottom of the class being worse in general, why the hell does that matter to me if I have a resume that passed the test at all three. Essentially, by your measure I'm safe no matter where I go. Since resume is so important, for the individual student choosing between the schools class size would be an irrelevant factor.

And how on earth would I choose between HYS based on knowing I would be at the very top of HLS.

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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby PriOSkyVXS » Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:52 pm

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20141023
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby 20141023 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:45 pm

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby SteelPenguin » Sun Sep 01, 2013 3:29 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
SteelPenguin wrote:
cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.


Lol, what a truly terrible choice. You won't go very far in life if you keep making decisions like that. :roll:


Lol why all the hate. Theres no reason someone couldn't take Harvard over Yale


You're right. My comment was directed at how ridiculous this thread and the idea of "Harvard bashing" is.

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sinfiery
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby sinfiery » Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:44 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:lol... I don't think you are understanding what sinfiery is saying. He isn't talking about the same person making a different resume to send to each of HYS; he is saying that even the "bottom dwellers" at SLS and YLS will likely have more impressive resumes than the bottom of the class at HYS simply because Y&S are more selective - they have smaller classes and admit fewer students, so they can be picky with those they admit, whereas Harvard has a huge-ass class to fill, so they'll get a lot of people with dull resumes but great numbers (LSAT/GPA).


Thank you :)

There was just so much misunderstanding with that post I couldn't even bother




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