Harvard vs Y and S

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poke800ash
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Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:45 pm

Hi everyone, this is my first time posting while having been a lurker for some times. I have noticed that a segment on this forum seems to have some unflattering perceptions of Harvard as compared to Y/S. While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill"). Moreover, there seems to be some people that are adamant about differentiating H and Y/S based on employment outcomes and having reviewed employment stats for the three schools, I just could not see where the difference lies. Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al. because all the lawyers and lay people I have met agree that Harvard is, if not the best school in the country, definitely ahead of CLS, Uchi, nyu, etc in every sense.

NYstate
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby NYstate » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:47 pm

poke800ash wrote:Hi everyone, this is my first time posting while having been a lurker for some times. I have noticed that a segment on this forum seems to have some unflattering perceptions of Harvard as compared to Y/S. While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill"). Moreover, there seems to be some people that are adamant about differentiating H and Y/S based on employment outcomes and having reviewed employment stats for the three schools, I just could not see where the difference lies. Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al. because all the lawyers and lay people I have met agree that Harvard is, if not the best school in the country, definitely ahead of CLS, Uchi, nyu, etc in every sense.


What is your point? Did someone hurt your feelings?

Humbert Humbert
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Humbert Humbert » Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:51 pm

JS, is that you? Welcome to TLS!

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dr123
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby dr123 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:08 pm

You really felt the need to register an account to defend the prestige of harvard?

poke800ash
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:10 pm

NYstate wrote:
poke800ash wrote:Hi everyone, this is my first time posting while having been a lurker for some times. I have noticed that a segment on this forum seems to have some unflattering perceptions of Harvard as compared to Y/S. While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill"). Moreover, there seems to be some people that are adamant about differentiating H and Y/S based on employment outcomes and having reviewed employment stats for the three schools, I just could not see where the difference lies. Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al. because all the lawyers and lay people I have met agree that Harvard is, if not the best school in the country, definitely ahead of CLS, Uchi, nyu, etc in every sense.


What is your point? Did someone hurt your feelings?


I am not from Harvard (wish I could have gone to undergrad there) or affiliated with it in anyway, why would my feelings be hurt? I am an 0l applying this year so I want to get all the facts straight.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:13 pm

CLS/NYU are equal(ish) to H for NYC big firm hiring. No one says that one or the other is equal to H for other things. The difference between H and YS has more to do with the options available to the bottom of the class at the other two as opposed to H.

poke800ash
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:15 pm

dr123 wrote:You really felt the need to register an account to defend the prestige of harvard?


Nope, I am 0l and will be posting a lot more further down in the cycle, and to be clear I will choose Y/S over harvard if they take me because I am sick and tired of large classes, but it is just that I don't get where all the the anti-Harvard sentiments come from?

poke800ash
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:19 pm

JamMasterJ wrote:CLS/NYU are equal(ish) to H for NYC big firm hiring. No one says that one or the other is equal to H for other things. The difference between H and YS has more to do with the options available to the bottom of the class at the other two as opposed to H.


That is the part where I am most confused about, how can there be more options for the bottom of the class at Y and S if their employment statistics and the quality of that statistics are all really similar, plus harvard seems to enjoy higher NY firm hirings than Y and S.

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kwais
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby kwais » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:20 pm

Harvard's class size is not "quite a bit below the law school average." And you yourself just said you'd choose Y/S over H on class size alone. You have made one of the worst threads on TLS.

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JamMasterJ
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby JamMasterJ » Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:25 pm

poke800ash wrote:
JamMasterJ wrote:CLS/NYU are equal(ish) to H for NYC big firm hiring. No one says that one or the other is equal to H for other things. The difference between H and YS has more to do with the options available to the bottom of the class at the other two as opposed to H.


That is the part where I am most confused about, how can there be more options for the bottom of the class at Y and S if their employment statistics and the quality of that statistics are all really similar, plus harvard seems to enjoy higher NY firm hirings than Y and S.

raw numbers and self selection

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twenty
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby twenty » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:23 pm

poke800ash wrote:Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al.


those BASTARDS.

poke800ash
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:43 pm

kwais wrote:Harvard's class size is not "quite a bit below the law school average." And you yourself just said you'd choose Y/S over H on class size alone. You have made one of the worst threads on TLS.


I never said that harvard's class size was lower than average, I was referring to its faculty to student ratio.

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dr123
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby dr123 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:03 pm

poke800ash wrote:
dr123 wrote:You really felt the need to register an account to defend the prestige of harvard?


Nope, I am 0l and will be posting a lot more further down in the cycle, and to be clear I will choose Y/S over harvard if they take me because I am sick and tired of large classes, but it is just that I don't get where all the the anti-Harvard sentiments come from?


Harvard is a festering TTT

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twenty
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby twenty » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:14 pm

While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill").


lolol, Harvard's student to faculty ratio is 12:1. Even GULC isn't that high. (11:1)

Where the hell are you getting your numbers from to be saying "on average"? Washington and Lee is like 9:1, hell, Chapman is 10:1.

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SteelPenguin
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby SteelPenguin » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:37 pm

poke800ash wrote:Hi everyone, this is my first time posting while having been a lurker for some times. I have noticed that a segment on this forum seems to have some unflattering perceptions of Harvard as compared to Y/S. While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill"). Moreover, there seems to be some people that are adamant about differentiating H and Y/S based on employment outcomes and having reviewed employment stats for the three schools, I just could not see where the difference lies. Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al. because all the lawyers and lay people I have met agree that Harvard is, if not the best school in the country, definitely ahead of CLS, Uchi, nyu, etc in every sense.


You honestly haven't seen people refer to GULC as the degree mill of the T14s?

rad lulz
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby rad lulz » Fri Aug 30, 2013 7:44 pm

H is a degree mill

poke800ash
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby poke800ash » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:02 pm

SteelPenguin wrote:
poke800ash wrote:Hi everyone, this is my first time posting while having been a lurker for some times. I have noticed that a segment on this forum seems to have some unflattering perceptions of Harvard as compared to Y/S. While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill"). Moreover, there seems to be some people that are adamant about differentiating H and Y/S based on employment outcomes and having reviewed employment stats for the three schools, I just could not see where the difference lies. Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al. because all the lawyers and lay people I have met agree that Harvard is, if not the best school in the country, definitely ahead of CLS, Uchi, nyu, etc in every sense.


You honestly haven't seen people refer to GULC as the degree mill of the T14s?


Unfortunately, no, the only none TTT school that I have heard refereed to as a degree mill is harvard.

20141023
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby 20141023 » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:19 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Ramius
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Ramius » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:19 pm

poke800ash wrote:
SteelPenguin wrote:
poke800ash wrote:Hi everyone, this is my first time posting while having been a lurker for some times. I have noticed that a segment on this forum seems to have some unflattering perceptions of Harvard as compared to Y/S. While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill"). Moreover, there seems to be some people that are adamant about differentiating H and Y/S based on employment outcomes and having reviewed employment stats for the three schools, I just could not see where the difference lies. Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al. because all the lawyers and lay people I have met agree that Harvard is, if not the best school in the country, definitely ahead of CLS, Uchi, nyu, etc in every sense.


You honestly haven't seen people refer to GULC as the degree mill of the T14s?


Unfortunately, no, the only none TTT school that I have heard refereed to as a degree mill is harvard.


You haven't been lurking very long then. On this site, a good number of people have adopted the moniker T13 vice T14 just to out GULC as exactly that, a degree mill. Whether or not you believe it, that sentiment has been alive and well around here since at least the class of 2011 when GULC hit an abysmal 34% BIGLAW score.

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NoodleyOne
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby NoodleyOne » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:39 pm

I blame Suits.

tidymnstr
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby tidymnstr » Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:45 pm

matthewsean85 wrote:
poke800ash wrote:
SteelPenguin wrote:
poke800ash wrote:Hi everyone, this is my first time posting while having been a lurker for some times. I have noticed that a segment on this forum seems to have some unflattering perceptions of Harvard as compared to Y/S. While it is true that the students to faculty ratio at H is higher than Y and S, it is still quite a bit below the law school average and on top of everything there are schools like GULC that function with significantly more students but they don't seem to attract this type of criticisms (eg. "degree mill"). Moreover, there seems to be some people that are adamant about differentiating H and Y/S based on employment outcomes and having reviewed employment stats for the three schools, I just could not see where the difference lies. Finally, what is with people bracketing H with Columbia et al. because all the lawyers and lay people I have met agree that Harvard is, if not the best school in the country, definitely ahead of CLS, Uchi, nyu, etc in every sense.


You honestly haven't seen people refer to GULC as the degree mill of the T14s?


Unfortunately, no, the only none TTT school that I have heard refereed to as a degree mill is harvard.


You haven't been lurking very long then. On this site, a good number of people have adopted the moniker T13 vice T14 just to out GULC as exactly that, a degree mill. Whether or not you believe it, that sentiment has been alive and well around here since at least the class of 2011 when GULC hit an abysmal 34% BIGLAW score.


AWK, ATL ranks UT & Vandy above GULC.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:08 pm

tidymnstr wrote:AWK, ATL ranks UT & Vandy above GULC.


...people are going to be citing the ATL rankings as if they're some sort of authority or representative of a sound methodology for a while, aren't they?

Jesus.

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Clearly
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Clearly » Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:32 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
tidymnstr wrote:AWK, ATL ranks UT & Vandy above GULC.


...people are going to be citing the ATL rankings as if they're some sort of authority or representative of a sound methodology for a while, aren't they?

Jesus.

For the purposes of actually choosing a law school, I'd argue they are better than USNWR...which we cite every day.

cayennepepper
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby cayennepepper » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:18 am

haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.

Void
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Re: Harvard vs Y and S

Postby Void » Sat Aug 31, 2013 12:41 am

cayennepepper wrote:haha. It's funny how much H gets bashed on TLS. For what it's worth, I chose H over Y (and know quite a number of people who did the same). It's honestly just a pretty personal decision.


Humblebrag alert.




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