Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

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john1990
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby john1990 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:36 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
john1990 wrote:Better than blind leading the seeing. That's just f***ing annoying

Wait... did you actually go to Pace with a 170, or are you just trollin'? (Please tell me that you're trolling...) If you're for real, what was your UGPA?

From john1990's Profile wrote:I have decided to attend Pace in the Spring. I think more students should take scholarship money and attend lower ranked schools to reduce expenses. It is just as easy to attend a lower ranked school and place higher in class and it is the better choice.

Also, did you not read anything that I posted about PSL above? Because this is the Interwebz, you're free to say whatever the hell you want, but don't expect to be able to advise people to throw their careers off a cliff (which is the likely result of attending PSL) without getting called out for it. :roll:


UGPA 3.3 LSAT 166
170 was a timed preptest
I believe that i can place top of the class at Pace and graduate debt free.

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cotiger
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:56 pm

john1990 wrote:UGPA 3.3 LSAT 166
170 was a timed preptest
I believe that i can place top of the class at Pace and graduate debt free.


There are significantly better places than Pace that you could have gone to with a decently large scholly from those numbers.

If low LSAT median + mere existence of grads who go to biglaw = likely success in your eyes, then you def should've gone to Detroit-Mercy. Lower LSAT than Pace by three (150 v 153) and three times (!) the biglaw percentage (3.8% vs 1.3%). Totally blew it.

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john1990
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby john1990 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:07 pm

cotiger wrote:
john1990 wrote:UGPA 3.3 LSAT 166
170 was a timed preptest
I believe that i can place top of the class at Pace and graduate debt free.


There are significantly better places than Pace that you could have gone to with a decently large scholly from those numbers.

If low LSAT median + mere existence of grads who go to biglaw = likely success in your eyes, then you def should've gone to Detroit-Mercy. Lower LSAT than Pace by three (150 v 153) and three times (!) the biglaw percentage (3.8% vs 1.3%). Totally blew it.


That is impressive that a school with a 150 median has 4% biglaw. But, i did not want to go to detroit. I like pace for a lot of reasons not listed. I visited the school and I liked it from the first time i was there

Where did you get 3.8% from

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cotiger
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 22, 2013 10:32 pm

john1990 wrote:
cotiger wrote:
john1990 wrote:UGPA 3.3 LSAT 166
170 was a timed preptest
I believe that i can place top of the class at Pace and graduate debt free.


There are significantly better places than Pace that you could have gone to with a decently large scholly from those numbers.

If low LSAT median + mere existence of grads who go to biglaw = likely success in your eyes, then you def should've gone to Detroit-Mercy. Lower LSAT than Pace by three (150 v 153) and three times (!) the biglaw percentage (3.8% vs 1.3%). Totally blew it.


That is impressive that a school with a 150 median has 4% biglaw. But, i did not want to go to detroit. I like pace for a lot of reasons not listed. I visited the school and I liked it from the first time i was there

Where did you get 3.8% from


http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=detroit-mercy

I am not in any way endorsing this strategy.

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cotiger
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby cotiger » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:51 pm

john1990 wrote:
cotiger wrote:
john1990 wrote:UGPA 3.3 LSAT 166
170 was a timed preptest
I believe that i can place top of the class at Pace and graduate debt free.


There are significantly better places than Pace that you could have gone to with a decently large scholly from those numbers.

If low LSAT median + mere existence of grads who go to biglaw = likely success in your eyes, then you def should've gone to Detroit-Mercy. Lower LSAT than Pace by three (150 v 153) and three times (!) the biglaw percentage (3.8% vs 1.3%). Totally blew it.


That is impressive that a school with a 150 median has 4% biglaw. But, i did not want to go to detroit. I like pace for a lot of reasons not listed. I visited the school and I liked it from the first time i was there

Where did you get 3.8% from


Just trying to fathom this decision..
Even staying in NY (or even NYC area) and using your strategy there would be MUCH better options.

Compare Pace (1.3% / 153) to:

Syracuse - 5.8% / 153
NYLS - 4.8% / 152
Albany - 4.7% / 152

All of these are better options than Pace. Hell, even Touro (1.6% / 148) is a better option.

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john1990
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby john1990 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:05 am


Just trying to fathom this decision..
Even staying in NY (or even NYC area) and using your strategy there would be MUCH better options.

Compare Pace (1.3% / 153) to:

Syracuse - 5.8% / 153
NYLS - 4.8% / 152
Albany - 4.7% / 152

All of these are better options than Pace. Hell, even Touro (1.6% / 148) is a better option.



If Albany places 5% Pace must be greater than 2%. Sorry to jack this thread. Send me a pm

Younger Abstention
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Younger Abstention » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:12 am

Ellipses are a sign of very weak writing. Stop using them asap, OP.

20141023
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby 20141023 » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:28 am

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bjsesq
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby bjsesq » Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:30 am

kappycaft1 wrote:
Younger Abstention wrote:Ellipses are a sign of very weak writing. Stop using them asap, OP.

Not if you're talking about ellipses for omission.

Even the normal ellipses that connote a pause can be pretty useful; I personally like using them in informal situations to represent awkward silences. :P


I use them to represent what I am praying for when my slampiece says she is late.

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mewalke1
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby mewalke1 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:41 am

kappycaft1 wrote:This post was so horrendous that I couldn't stop myself from replying...
cce19832002 wrote:Ok, so you obviously don't really want to go to law school at all. Which is great, because its one less person that the rest of us have to compete with. I am a current student at PSL, and let me just tell you a few simple things.

1. Yes they are changing their name, not mainly for re-branding, but to end the confusion with University of Phoenix.
Yeah, because PLS wouldn't want to be confused with shady for-profit institutions of higher education...

2. You could have just had $30,000 per semester in free money from the school.
Does the school even give out scholarships this high? According to their financial aid website, it looks like the most they dish out is $25,000 (and it's per year, not per semester); even then, they state that "only about 30% of the students with scholarships will maintain their scholarship." In the famous words of Admiral Ackbar, you know that "it's a trap" when a school offers applicants conditional scholarships.

3. A lot of students that want to go to ASU or U of A will start at PSL and then transfer. ASU has so many openings for transfers and not enough applicants to fill the spots.
According to the most recent ABA data, 77 students transferred out last year; with the normal class size being around 400, that means that only 19% of the students are able to get out of this school. As we saw earlier this year, PSL is facing a law suit for proposed changes, one of which would "discourage transfers by refusing to write recommendation letters, changing first-year classes to make them incompatible with other schools, and adopting a pass-fail grading system that would make it hard for other schools to identify top students."

4. They still require pro-bono hours whereas ASU and U of A do not. The main point is so that you are out in the law community networking and learning.
Do you need your mother to tell you to brush your teeth or hold the door for people in order to do these things? Just because something isn't required doesn't mean that students aren't doing it. Even if schools doesn't require it, some state bar exams do, so this is kind of a moot point.

5. They currently have a grading system based on a C curve. Not pass or fail. U of A and ASU both have B curves. PSL is considering switching to a B curve in the future so that their students are looked at evenly with other law schools. However, they don't just give you good grades, you earn them.
I don't think you understand how this works... Employers are not going to compare an "A" at your school directly to an "A" at another school. They are usually aware that there are differences between grading systems, so they do their best to look at percentiles (although this can be difficult because most schools don't actually "rank" students). Based on your logic, you assume that if PSL moved its grading system to be based on an A+ curve then it would outplace schools with B curves.

6. They have a more competitive Bar pass rate than ASU and U of A. Look it up.
Ummm, no. Based on last year's data from the Official ABA Guide, PSL had an Arizona bar passage rate of 67.31%, whereas UofA was at 85.15% and ASU was 85.80%. Nice try, though. You must be the same adcomm who sent out this email last cycle.

7. You are expected to attend class prepared, with the readings and assignments completed so that the Professors can go into detail about the elements of the law. You are an adult, and they treat you accordingly. This is the same that is expected of EVERY attorney that attends a court session.
How is this different than any other law school? If you think that PSL is the only school where students need to do their homework and be prepared for cold calls, you should try and transfer and see what it's like elsewhere.

You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.
You've done a good job of stating the exact opposite of what the actual employment data tells us. Congratulations.




+1000

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mewalke1
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby mewalke1 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 5:55 am

cce19832002 wrote:
You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.



Taking someone else's spot??!! Its not f***ing Yale. Its Phoenix school of law. Pretty much anyone who wants to go can go.


http://phoenix.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1213

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby ManoftheHour » Thu Oct 24, 2013 7:39 pm

mewalke1 wrote:
cce19832002 wrote:
You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.



Taking someone else's spot??!! Its not f***ing Yale. Its Phoenix school of law. Pretty much anyone who wants to go can go.


http://phoenix.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1213


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/hopefulmommy

This person got rejected. She's probably a flame.

timmyd
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby timmyd » Thu Oct 24, 2013 8:31 pm

To the guy who got a 166 on the LSAT and decided to go to Pace because of course he will be at the top of the class: good luck man.

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john1990
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby john1990 » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:28 pm

They see my LSAT and they're like :shock:

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jingosaur
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby jingosaur » Thu Oct 24, 2013 11:23 pm

john1990 wrote:They see my LSAT and they're like :shock:


That should tell you something about the quality of the law school you're going to.

I have an anecdote about a Pace alum in Biglaw, but I feel like it's so rare that telling the anecdote will automatically out the person.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby jbagelboy » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:09 am

ManoftheHour wrote:
mewalke1 wrote:
cce19832002 wrote:
You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.



Taking someone else's spot??!! Its not f***ing Yale. Its Phoenix school of law. Pretty much anyone who wants to go can go.


http://phoenix.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1213


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/hopefulmommy

This person got rejected. She's probably a flame.


Dude, I don't think so. That's gotta be one elaborate flame. I mean shit look at all those notes and comments.

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Tiago Splitter
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:14 am

jbagelboy wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
mewalke1 wrote:
cce19832002 wrote:
You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.



Taking someone else's spot??!! Its not f***ing Yale. Its Phoenix school of law. Pretty much anyone who wants to go can go.


http://phoenix.lawschoolnumbers.com/stats/1213


http://lawschoolnumbers.com/hopefulmommy

This person got rejected. She's probably a flame.


Dude, I don't think so. That's gotta be one elaborate flame. I mean shit look at all those notes and comments.

Relevant to this thread:

"3/28/13 received an email from phoenix school of law congratulating me again on my acceptance and providing links to pay my seat deposit? Lol ummm, I was denied there."

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ManoftheHour
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby ManoftheHour » Fri Oct 25, 2013 1:25 am

jbagelboy wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/hopefulmommy

This person got rejected. She's probably a flame.


Dude, I don't think so. That's gotta be one elaborate flame. I mean shit look at all those notes and comments.



Wow. I'm hoping it's an elaborate flame.

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Cicero76
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Cicero76 » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:13 am

ManoftheHour wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
http://lawschoolnumbers.com/hopefulmommy

This person got rejected. She's probably a flame.


Dude, I don't think so. That's gotta be one elaborate flame. I mean shit look at all those notes and comments.



Wow. I'm hoping it's an elaborate flame.


<pluralizes "addendum" correctly as "addenda">
<uses "their" to mean "they're">
Proof it's an elaborate flame? But some of this is so good you couldn't make it up.

Good Lord these comments...I can't stop reading...

20141023
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby 20141023 » Sun Oct 27, 2013 4:20 am

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jbagelboy
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Oct 27, 2013 5:51 pm

kappycaft1 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
ManoftheHour wrote:
This person got rejected. She's probably a flame.


Dude, I don't think so. That's gotta be one elaborate flame. I mean shit look at all those notes and comments.

I think I've heard comments like this somewhere before... :lol:


Well, excuse me for finding your commanding brilliance at trolling unique, and thereby not subject to some mundane pattern.

Jaded89
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Jaded89 » Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:54 am

recockulous wrote:Registered here just to chime in on this point. I'm not a PSL flack, staffer or alum (I went to ASU Law in the 90s). I work in a gov't agency (mods can see my IP address) and work with law clerks.

When PSL first opened, it had a key advantage: night classes. For a long time, ASU was the only law school in metro Phoenix. ASU only offered daytime classes and a standard three-year full-time grad track. There was no real part-time or night program. Alums and prospective students clamored for one for years, but the staff objected and the management listened to them.

Then PSL opened. They had a part time track, and nighttime classes. Their first class filled immediately, even though they had really high tuition and lacked accreditation (at the time). That was the pent-up demand for part-time and night school at work. The first students to come through PSL in that inaugural class - almost to a person - were professionals by day, and students by night. I had several clerks from this class, and they put their fellow clerks from ASU (and other schools) to shame.


I doubt that. ASU students consistently have higher LSAT and GPA scores than PSOL students and that was true even for PSOL's opening class, in addition to which ASU's tuition is a fraction of PSOL's, automatically rendering anyone who voluntarily chooses PSOL over ASU a complete, blithering idiot.

Top flight people, and I'd have hired any of them. (Note that since PSL opened, ASU now offers night classes... probably because they realized that PSL was eating their lunch).


I doubt that. ASU has always had inflated applicant numbers, due to the combination of its high rank, low instate tuition, and Arizona's monstrous population growth. Perhaps you had a weird combination of some moron ASU grads and brilliant PSOL grads at your agency. Sounds like an anomaly to me.

So I agree with the commenters who told OP not to go. I disagree with the folks who said they'd never hire a PSL grad. Some of those early folks are going to be great lawyers, even if their law school doesn't exist after next year.


I understand that you're agreeing with the fundamnetal point, but still object to your rationalization of any idiot who thinks PSOL is worth its $41,000+ tuition. Johnny Cochrane went to Loyola and Gerry Spence went to Wyoming. That doesn't put those law schools above Yale and Michigan. I have no doubt that some PSOL grad somewhere will be a great rainmaker and another one will be a super trial lawyer and yet another will get a seven figure jury verdict, one day (well, maybe). But that doesn't change the reality of the vast majority of graduates. The partner who said he'd refuse to hire one? That man owns his law firm and built it from the ground up. When he hires a young lawyer but turns out to have misjudged him or her, that hurts his bottom line more directly than it does a government agency. So he refuses to take chances for the sake of giving the pitiful PSOL grad a chance, which is reflective of many law firms in town.

By the way, is there even one firm in town with over 50 lawyers that hired a PSOL grad last year? How many firms over even 10 lawyers did so?

Have you ever seen PSOL's law journal? It is miserably pathetic and embarrassing. If this is the best the school can offer from its brightest students, that is terrifying.

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gaud
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Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby gaud » Wed Oct 30, 2013 2:06 am

The only night classes ASU offers are the ones taught by adjunct professors. There's no part-time program or anything like that.




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