Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
mewalke1
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:45 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby mewalke1 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:41 pm

You can think of schools as molds and their incoming students as molten alloy; no matter where you go, the molds are all relatively similar, but the quality of the molten alloy varies greatly. You have the "best" stuff being poured into the molds at schools like Yale and Harvard, and then the stuff that was just lying around and easy to gather at schools at the bottom of the rankings.


That may be the most interesting way I have ever heard schools described....but it defiantly makes the point.

User avatar
mewalke1
Posts: 189
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:45 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby mewalke1 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:43 pm

lawforthemasses wrote:I am a December 2009 graduate of Phoenix School of Law. I sat for the February 2010 bar exam and passed it my first time. I found the school to be completely helpful in getting me practice-ready and prepared to enter the workforce. I had zero delays in getting hired and took my first job as an associate in a small firm. The pay wasn't good, but I had to start somewhere and knew I could promote myself in due time. Now, having practiced for three-plus years, I can tell you that not once I have encountered discounts to my abilities as an attorney by either colleagues or clients. I am making six-figures and enjoy my current firm. I cannot comment on the current situation within the school, but when I attended I believe I got a quality legal education.


The guy has one post. It's probably a current Phx Law administrator.


http://www.phoenixlaw.edu/facultyandstaff/default.asp?PageID=77&ID=127

User avatar
TheJanitor6203
Posts: 811
Joined: Sun Nov 04, 2012 5:12 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby TheJanitor6203 » Fri Sep 13, 2013 7:54 pm

mewalke1 wrote:
lawforthemasses wrote:I am a December 2009 graduate of Phoenix School of Law. I sat for the February 2010 bar exam and passed it my first time. I found the school to be completely helpful in getting me practice-ready and prepared to enter the workforce. I had zero delays in getting hired and took my first job as an associate in a small firm. The pay wasn't good, but I had to start somewhere and knew I could promote myself in due time. Now, having practiced for three-plus years, I can tell you that not once I have encountered discounts to my abilities as an attorney by either colleagues or clients. I am making six-figures and enjoy my current firm. I cannot comment on the current situation within the school, but when I attended I believe I got a quality legal education.


The guy has one post. It's probably a current Phx Law administrator.


http://www.phoenixlaw.edu/facultyandstaff/default.asp?PageID=77&ID=127

That was my initial thought too.

lawforthemasses
Posts: 2
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:15 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby lawforthemasses » Tue Sep 24, 2013 5:30 pm

The guy has one post. It's probably a current Phx Law administrator.



http://www.phoenixlaw.edu/facultyandstaff/default.asp?PageID=77&ID=127[/quote]

I can assure you I am no a PHX Law administrator. I am a practioner in Scottsdale simply speaking out on my alma mater's behalf. If you want to have lunch some time to talk about PSL, please let me know and we can set it up.

LeninLunchbox
Posts: 50
Joined: Mon Apr 30, 2012 3:24 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby LeninLunchbox » Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:52 am

lawforthemasses wrote:
The guy has one post. It's probably a current Phx Law administrator.



http://www.phoenixlaw.edu/facultyandstaff/default.asp?PageID=77&ID=127


I can assure you I am no a PHX Law administrator. I am a practioner in Scottsdale simply speaking out on my alma mater's behalf. If you want to have lunch some time to talk about PSL, please let me know and we can set it up.[/quote]

This is the best trolling I've seen on TLS in some time. 7/10, good effort.

Jaded89
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:34 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Jaded89 » Sun Oct 06, 2013 12:53 pm

lawforthemasses wrote:I am a December 2009 graduate of Phoenix School of Law. I sat for the February 2010 bar exam and passed it my first time. I found the school to be completely helpful in getting me practice-ready and prepared to enter the workforce. I had zero delays in getting hired and took my first job as an associate in a small firm. The pay wasn't good, but I had to start somewhere and knew I could promote myself in due time. Now, having practiced for three-plus years, I can tell you that not once I have encountered discounts to my abilities as an attorney by either colleagues or clients. I am making six-figures and enjoy my current firm. I cannot comment on the current situation within the school, but when I attended I believe I got a quality legal education.


I have no comment on the truth or falsity of the post. We have no way of verifying the claims, although the author is apparently wiling to meet anyone for lunch.

First: This is a direct quote from one managing partner of a mid-sized firm I know of in Phoenix: "There isn't a chance in hell I'd ever agree to hire a graduate of that school." The school in question was PSOL. Another partner from a different firm who was part of the conversation nodded his head in agreement. (I'm in government so I just smirked.) I know that this is a widely held view among lawyers in the community. Do I think it's totally fair? Probably not but what do I care. If I want to ban all graduates from PSOL or for that matter Yale, that would be my prerogative if I ran a firm.

Second: Kudos to this guy for landing a "six figure" salary as a 3rd year associate at a "small firm." I don't know how he pulled that off but it is extremely misleading to suggest that other people can pull it off too. I'm familiar with what the salaries are at Phoenix and Scottsdale firms, big, small, and mid-sized. 3 year lawyers are nowhere near six figures unless they're in BIGLAW or working for one of the very rare mid-sized firms that have elite, boutique characteristics (like Osborn Maledon, which prefers Ivy League credentials).

Notably, the author doesn't give additional details that would allow us to judge whether his situation is unique to him (which I'm quite sure it is) or not. The point is: 3 year lawyers with degrees from PSOL are doing very poorly in the Arizona legal market today. The school's job statistics confirm that conclusion. The free ride sounds great until you consider the 70% chance of your losing it for your 2L year, when they know you won't want to quit for finances alone.

recockulous
Posts: 1
Joined: Thu Oct 10, 2013 12:31 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby recockulous » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:46 pm

Registered here just to chime in on this point. I'm not a PSL flack, staffer or alum (I went to ASU Law in the 90s). I work in a gov't agency (mods can see my IP address) and work with law clerks.

When PSL first opened, it had a key advantage: night classes. For a long time, ASU was the only law school in metro Phoenix. ASU only offered daytime classes and a standard three-year full-time grad track. There was no real part-time or night program. Alums and prospective students clamored for one for years, but the staff objected and the management listened to them.

Then PSL opened. They had a part time track, and nighttime classes. Their first class filled immediately, even though they had really high tuition and lacked accreditation (at the time). That was the pent-up demand for part-time and night school at work. The first students to come through PSL in that inaugural class - almost to a person - were professionals by day, and students by night. I had several clerks from this class, and they put their fellow clerks from ASU (and other schools) to shame. Top flight people, and I'd have hired any of them. (Note that since PSL opened, ASU now offers night classes... probably because they realized that PSL was eating their lunch).

PSL has fallen off dramatically though. The average PSL student now is exactly like the OP - he's there because he was offered a nearly-free ride, and doesn't know what he wants to do with his life. The last PSL clerk I really sat down and chatted with was quite panicked because the faculty was in revolt, the school's finances were poor, and he wasn't sure the school was even going to be in business long enough for him to graduate. That's on top of the average law student's concerns about debt load and job prospects. As of now, the average ASU clerk seems to do better work than the average PSL clerk, at least in my estimation.

So I agree with the commenters who told OP not to go. I disagree with the folks who said they'd never hire a PSL grad. Some of those early folks are going to be great lawyers, even if their law school doesn't exist after next year.

(Also, I saw in my email this AM that PSL now wants to be called Arizona Summit Law School. Eh, that's pretty generic.)

User avatar
PepperJack
Posts: 646
Joined: Sun Sep 29, 2013 1:23 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby PepperJack » Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:56 pm

Anybody can learn the law. The info you need is all available online. In fact, you could probably skip all classes and readings, and get good grades at any law school including HYS just utilizing the syllabus and info available for free online. Yes, the professors are legal masterminds but they're not exactly using their deepest faculties teaching how to make a tort case. The purpose of going to law school is to get a job practicing law. These schools don't let you do that. You're spending 200k for info you can get for free online. Eventually those degrees are going to be all worthless. We're prob 10 years from Law On A GPS - Syrie, will this will be probated? Mid and small law will only fall further. Only the top-14 are worth it, and even then hmmm you better have a plan.

All in all, you might have better odds at success just picking C for every question on the LSAT than going to a TTTT. If you are too lazy to study and retake, then just retake and pick all C.

FloridaCoastalorbust
Posts: 1302
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 4:43 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby FloridaCoastalorbust » Thu Oct 10, 2013 2:19 pm

You have a moral obligation to not attend this school because of your family.

In fact, it would be unethical to enroll.

cce19832002
Posts: 1
Joined: Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:17 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby cce19832002 » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:30 pm

Ok, so you obviously don't really want to go to law school at all. Which is great, because its one less person that the rest of us have to compete with. I am a current student at PSL, and let me just tell you a few simple things.

1. Yes they are changing their name, not mainly for re-branding, but to end the confusion with University of Phoenix.

2. You could have just had $30,000 per semester in free money from the school.

3. A lot of students that want to go to ASU or U of A will start at PSL and then transfer. ASU has so many openings for transfers and not enough applicants to fill the spots.

4. They still require pro-bono hours whereas ASU and U of A do not. The main point is so that you are out in the law community networking and learning.

5. They currently have a grading system based on a C curve. Not pass or fail. U of A and ASU both have B curves. PSL is considering switching to a B curve in the future so that their students are looked at evenly with other law schools. However, they don't just give you good grades, you earn them.

6. They have a more competitive Bar pass rate than ASU and U of A. Look it up.

7. You are expected to attend class prepared, with the readings and assignments completed so that the Professors can go into detail about the elements of the law. You are an adult, and they treat you accordingly. This is the same that is expected of EVERY attorney that attends a court session.

You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15488
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:52 pm

cce19832002 wrote:Ok, so you obviously don't really want to go to law school at all. Which is great, because its one less person that the rest of us have to compete with. I am a current student at PSL, and let me just tell you a few simple things.

1. Yes they are changing their name, not mainly for re-branding, but to end the confusion with University of Phoenix.

2. You could have just had $30,000 per semester in free money from the school.

3. A lot of students that want to go to ASU or U of A will start at PSL and then transfer. ASU has so many openings for transfers and not enough applicants to fill the spots.

4. They still require pro-bono hours whereas ASU and U of A do not. The main point is so that you are out in the law community networking and learning.

5. They currently have a grading system based on a C curve. Not pass or fail. U of A and ASU both have B curves. PSL is considering switching to a B curve in the future so that their students are looked at evenly with other law schools. However, they don't just give you good grades, you earn them.

6. They have a more competitive Bar pass rate than ASU and U of A. Look it up.

7. You are expected to attend class prepared, with the readings and assignments completed so that the Professors can go into detail about the elements of the law. You are an adult, and they treat you accordingly. This is the same that is expected of EVERY attorney that attends a court session.

You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.

I summarize that you are a PSL adcomm. Let me respond sir:

2) Discounting the price so it's less of a rip off is not the same as writing someone a check for $30,000.

3) Your point is that people should start at PSL so that they can transfer? Even if this were a good idea, how could U of A and ASU accept every student from PSL and if they could how would this keep you in business?

5) So do you have to earn the grades or do they have a B curve?

Redfactor
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Redfactor » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:15 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
cce19832002 wrote:Ok, so you obviously don't really want to go to law school at all. Which is great, because its one less person that the rest of us have to compete with. I am a current student at PSL, and let me just tell you a few simple things.

1. Yes they are changing their name, not mainly for re-branding, but to end the confusion with University of Phoenix.

2. You could have just had $30,000 per semester in free money from the school.

3. A lot of students that want to go to ASU or U of A will start at PSL and then transfer. ASU has so many openings for transfers and not enough applicants to fill the spots.

4. They still require pro-bono hours whereas ASU and U of A do not. The main point is so that you are out in the law community networking and learning.

5. They currently have a grading system based on a C curve. Not pass or fail. U of A and ASU both have B curves. PSL is considering switching to a B curve in the future so that their students are looked at evenly with other law schools. However, they don't just give you good grades, you earn them.

6. They have a more competitive Bar pass rate than ASU and U of A. Look it up.

7. You are expected to attend class prepared, with the readings and assignments completed so that the Professors can go into detail about the elements of the law. You are an adult, and they treat you accordingly. This is the same that is expected of EVERY attorney that attends a court session.

You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.

I summarize that you are a PSL adcomm. Let me respond sir:

2) Discounting the price so it's less of a rip off is not the same as writing someone a check for $30,000.

3) Your point is that people should start at PSL so that they can transfer? Even if this were a good idea, how could U of A and ASU accept every student from PSL and if they could how would this keep you in business?

5) So do you have to earn the grades or do they have a B curve?



It's surmise.
Last edited by Redfactor on Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
gaud
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:58 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby gaud » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:16 pm

Tons of people transfer from PSOL to ASU. I think there were approximately 25-30 this year (ballpark estimate)

ETA: I don't believe you should attend law school with the intent to transfer, but it seems fairly common from PSOL.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15488
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:18 pm

Redfactor wrote:It's surmise.

Are you being serious or am I being trolled right now?

Redfactor
Posts: 374
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2011 8:52 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby Redfactor » Sun Oct 20, 2013 11:22 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Redfactor wrote:It's surmise.

Are you being serious or am I being trolled right now?


I was serious. When the topic is PSL, you never know if there are two of the brightest lightbulbs trying to outshine the other.

User avatar
jingosaur
Posts: 2212
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby jingosaur » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:04 am

cce19832002 wrote:Ok, so you obviously don't really want to go to law school at all. Which is great, because its one less person that the rest of us have to compete with. I am a current student at PSL, and let me just tell you a few simple things.

1. Yes they are changing their name, not mainly for re-branding, but to end the confusion with University of Phoenix.

2. You could have just had $30,000 per semester in free money from the school.

3. A lot of students that want to go to ASU or U of A will start at PSL and then transfer. ASU has so many openings for transfers and not enough applicants to fill the spots.

4. They still require pro-bono hours whereas ASU and U of A do not. The main point is so that you are out in the law community networking and learning.

5. They currently have a grading system based on a C curve. Not pass or fail. U of A and ASU both have B curves. PSL is considering switching to a B curve in the future so that their students are looked at evenly with other law schools. However, they don't just give you good grades, you earn them.

6. They have a more competitive Bar pass rate than ASU and U of A. Look it up.

7. You are expected to attend class prepared, with the readings and assignments completed so that the Professors can go into detail about the elements of the law. You are an adult, and they treat you accordingly. This is the same that is expected of EVERY attorney that attends a court session.

You obviously knew that you were accepted to PSL prior to "sitting in orientation" and maybe you should have completed some research before taking someone else's spot that really wanted to be there, because it really doesn't matter where you got your law degree from, just as long as it is ABA certified and you pass the bar. If and when you finally attend law school, I summarize that you will be another two legged card carrier because you don't feel like being prepared for court that day.


Probably a troll, but OH MY GOD, please look at lawschooltransparency.com and then come back here. Also, PSOL has and always will have plenty of spots for anyone who wants to attend because their business model is to get as many 1Ls as possible and then trap them for as long as possible.

20141023
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby 20141023 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 1:57 am

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
gaud
Posts: 5790
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2011 2:58 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby gaud » Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:03 am

Oh man lol

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:37 pm

+1 to kappycaft1

User avatar
hephaestus
Posts: 2385
Joined: Mon Jan 07, 2013 4:21 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby hephaestus » Mon Oct 21, 2013 12:41 pm

timbs4339 wrote:+1 to kappycaft1

User avatar
john1990
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby john1990 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:44 pm

mewalke1 wrote:So I have almost a full ride to phx school of law.
I was accepted to some other schools but was not able to move....my wife
Just had a baby in June. I'm actually sitting in a phx classroom right now......sitting thru an orientation.

I got a 159 on the LSAT. Took it once.

My LSAT gpa blows because I got 2 Ys my first year in college.


I want to go to law school but this place feels kinda seedy. My first choices were ASU and UofA. I sat in on some classes at UofA and loved it. But got wait listed etc

I know someone who went to phx and them transferred to ASU and just graduated an has a decent job......but then there's this


http://forgottenattorney.wordpress.com/ ... er-update/

Just look up phx school of law lawsuit etc

I know this place sucks and I'm leaning toward
Not going and trying again next year. Just want some opinions.


Thanks


I would go if you have near a full scholarship. This might be the wrong place to ask this question. But, a law degree will change your life for the better and with a large scholarship it is affordable. If you decide to go to law school you wont regret it.
What are the other deals you were offered?

User avatar
jingosaur
Posts: 2212
Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2013 10:33 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby jingosaur » Tue Oct 22, 2013 4:50 pm

john1990 wrote:
mewalke1 wrote:So I have almost a full ride to phx school of law.
I was accepted to some other schools but was not able to move....my wife
Just had a baby in June. I'm actually sitting in a phx classroom right now......sitting thru an orientation.

I got a 159 on the LSAT. Took it once.

My LSAT gpa blows because I got 2 Ys my first year in college.


I want to go to law school but this place feels kinda seedy. My first choices were ASU and UofA. I sat in on some classes at UofA and loved it. But got wait listed etc

I know someone who went to phx and them transferred to ASU and just graduated an has a decent job......but then there's this


http://forgottenattorney.wordpress.com/ ... er-update/

Just look up phx school of law lawsuit etc

I know this place sucks and I'm leaning toward
Not going and trying again next year. Just want some opinions.


Thanks


I would go if you have near a full scholarship. This might be the wrong place to ask this question. But, a law degree will change your life for the better and with a large scholarship it is affordable. If you decide to go to law school you wont regret it.
What are the other deals you were offered?


The problem is that about 70% of students lose that full scholarship after the first year....

User avatar
mephistopheles
Posts: 1947
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2012 11:43 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby mephistopheles » Tue Oct 22, 2013 8:26 pm

john1990 wrote:
mewalke1 wrote:So I have almost a full ride to phx school of law.
I was accepted to some other schools but was not able to move....my wife
Just had a baby in June. I'm actually sitting in a phx classroom right now......sitting thru an orientation.

I got a 159 on the LSAT. Took it once.

My LSAT gpa blows because I got 2 Ys my first year in college.


I want to go to law school but this place feels kinda seedy. My first choices were ASU and UofA. I sat in on some classes at UofA and loved it. But got wait listed etc

I know someone who went to phx and them transferred to ASU and just graduated an has a decent job......but then there's this


http://forgottenattorney.wordpress.com/ ... er-update/

Just look up phx school of law lawsuit etc

I know this place sucks and I'm leaning toward
Not going and trying again next year. Just want some opinions.


Thanks


I would go if you have near a full scholarship. This might be the wrong place to ask this question. But, a law degree will change your life for the better and with a large scholarship it is affordable. If you decide to go to law school you wont regret it.
What are the other deals you were offered?



fucking blind leading the blind

User avatar
john1990
Posts: 1211
Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2011 5:49 pm

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby john1990 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:05 pm

mephistopheles wrote:
john1990 wrote:
mewalke1 wrote:So I have almost a full ride to phx school of law.
I was accepted to some other schools but was not able to move....my wife
Just had a baby in June. I'm actually sitting in a phx classroom right now......sitting thru an orientation.

I got a 159 on the LSAT. Took it once.

My LSAT gpa blows because I got 2 Ys my first year in college.


I want to go to law school but this place feels kinda seedy. My first choices were ASU and UofA. I sat in on some classes at UofA and loved it. But got wait listed etc

I know someone who went to phx and them transferred to ASU and just graduated an has a decent job......but then there's this


http://forgottenattorney.wordpress.com/ ... er-update/

Just look up phx school of law lawsuit etc

I know this place sucks and I'm leaning toward
Not going and trying again next year. Just want some opinions.


Thanks


I would go if you have near a full scholarship. This might be the wrong place to ask this question. But, a law degree will change your life for the better and with a large scholarship it is affordable. If you decide to go to law school you wont regret it.
What are the other deals you were offered?



fucking blind leading the blind


Better than blind leading the seeing. That's just f***ing annoying

20141023
Posts: 3072
Joined: Mon Jun 18, 2012 12:17 am

Re: Phoenix school of law........talk me of of it

Postby 20141023 » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:20 pm

.
Last edited by 20141023 on Sat Feb 14, 2015 10:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BigZuck, Chipotle85, grades??, LeNut, stego, Yahoo [Bot] and 16 guests