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Samara
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Samara » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:26 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
Samara wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
JJ123 wrote: Stanford doesn't hold a candle to Yale, Harvard, or Georgetown in terms of getting into politics.


Lol not for the California legislature

Yeah, it's all local and it all depends on what you want to do and the route you want to take. Yale, Harvard and GULC are the best if you want to get to Capitol Hill via DC. The best school in your state is the best if you want state legislature or to come up that way. Harvard doesn't carry much more political weight in Indiana than Notre Dame or IU-B, for example.


lolwut @ bolded

:?:

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:30 pm

lol @ a route from DC insider to Capitol Hill. That ain't how things work bro. 95% of mocs come up from state politics.

In any case, this thread sucks, because you'd have to be a moron to factor future political aspirations into a lawl school decision

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Samara
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Samara » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:33 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:lol @ a route from DC insider to Capitol Hill. That ain't how things work bro. 95% of mocs come up from state politics.

In any case, this thread sucks, because you'd have to be a moron to factor future political aspirations into a lawl school decision

:roll: Yeah, you're right, there are like zero Congressmen, governors, state legislators etc. who started out as political staff. Working for Congress is such a stupid way to get into Congress.

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:34 pm

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Last edited by lawschool22 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:38 pm

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Last edited by lawschool22 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:41 pm

Yeah, you're right, there are like zero Congressmen, governors, state legislators etc. who started out as political staff. Working for Congress is such a stupid way to get into Congress.


If you want to work for congress, then work for congress. You don't need a law degree to do that, and if one just wants to do politics and not law, then buying an expensive law degree isn't a good move. In the three years it takes to get that paper, you could be moving up the hill ladder and actually networking with people who might be able to help you down the road. A much wiser investment of your time IMO

Thanks - apparently I'm a moron for thinking through this decision thoroughly instead of blinding going with the general "T14 at sticker or bust" mentality. I'm so glad you cleared that up for me. This site is a truly great resource, but the rampant unwarranted hostility baffles me.


The hivemind is concerned about legal employment, so it shouldn't come as a surprise to you that you get these results when you want to use a law degree to practice politics. Sure, a law degree can be a natural springboard into politics, but your political aspirations are so personal that TLS can't really offer any helpful advice

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Samara
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Samara » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:48 pm

MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:
Yeah, you're right, there are like zero Congressmen, governors, state legislators etc. who started out as political staff. Working for Congress is such a stupid way to get into Congress.


If you want to work for congress, then work for congress. You don't need a law degree to do that, and if one just wants to do politics and not law, then buying an expensive law degree isn't a good move. In the three years it takes to get that paper, you could be moving up the hill ladder and actually networking with people who might be able to help you down the road. A much wiser investment of your time IMO

I agree with this, but this is completely different from your previous assertion that working in Congress was a dumb way to get into Congress.

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:49 pm

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Last edited by lawschool22 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JJ123
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby JJ123 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:59 am


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jbagelboy
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:20 am

JJ123 wrote:Where Congress went to law school:

http://www.dailypaul.com/94514/list-of- ... h-congress


SHITBOOMERZ FOR TEH LOSS

JJ123
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby JJ123 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:58 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
JJ123 wrote:Where Congress went to law school:

http://www.dailypaul.com/94514/list-of- ... h-congress


SHITBOOMERZ FOR TEH LOSS


I'm sorry, what? I don't speak your dialect of internet.

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Yukos
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Yukos » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:10 pm

JJ123 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
JJ123 wrote:Where Congress went to law school:

http://www.dailypaul.com/94514/list-of- ... h-congress


SHITBOOMERZ FOR TEH LOSS


I'm sorry, what? I don't speak your dialect of internet.


Outed as shitboomer.

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hephaestus
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby hephaestus » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:15 pm

Go to a T14 with $$$, then try to work big law in your desired locale. Just going to your state flagship is meaningless if you don't get a job.

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dr123
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby dr123 » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:17 pm

Enlist if you have political aspirations.

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twenty
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby twenty » Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:19 pm

dr123 wrote:Enlist Gun hard for OCS if you have political aspirations.

JJ123
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby JJ123 » Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:48 am

Yukos wrote:
JJ123 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
JJ123 wrote:Where Congress went to law school:

http://www.dailypaul.com/94514/list-of- ... h-congress


SHITBOOMERZ FOR TEH LOSS


I'm sorry, what? I don't speak your dialect of internet.


Outed as shitboomer.


A shitboomer?

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Yukos
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Yukos » Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:37 pm

JJ123 wrote:
Yukos wrote:
JJ123 wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
SHITBOOMERZ FOR TEH LOSS


I'm sorry, what? I don't speak your dialect of internet.


Outed as shitboomer.


A shitboomer?


Look in the mirror.

KingofSplitters55
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby KingofSplitters55 » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:18 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:There is a HUGE difference between your goals. You have absolutely no business going to law school (any law school) for anything more than 30k total if you want politics. It's basically one of the few areas you can't do PAYE/IBR in, and frankly, your regional school has just as much sway, if not more sway, than does most of the T14 excluding HYS.

On the other hand, if you're going for a federal clerkship or AUSA (which is kind of adorable, since you can't get AUSA without some serious seat time in crim law/biglaw for civil), you have no business going anywhere BUT HYS, which you're not getting with your numbers.

Really, though, if you want politics, don't go to law school. Trying the law school -> politics route worked really well for the boomers that paid 2k a year in tuition to go to UMich law, put out a sign, and made millions.

If you want politics, do yourself a favor and actually get involved in politics.


As someone who has done politics a long time, let me just say that a law degree really is what permits you to be seen as a credible candidate for anything beyond your local sewage commission board. Also, other politicians really don't take you as seriously if you're not a lawyer too. It's just the way it is.

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John_rizzy_rawls
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby John_rizzy_rawls » Sat Aug 31, 2013 5:34 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Sorry to be kind of an asshat about it; TLS sees its fair amount of posters that are "I GOT IN TO GEORGETOWN AT STICKER AND I WANT BIGPRESIDENCY, SHOULD I GO?"

Basically, figure out if you want to practice law, or if you want to practice politics. If politics, the only decision that makes sense is a regional school in the area you want to work at for almost-free. If law, T14 with money.


In theory this makes sense, but not if we look at the raw admissions data from an optimization standpoint. OPs incredible LSAT will only serve as an asset at a specific class of schools, those being basically upper T13. I doubt the regional T1 will be more generous as a result of a 175 compared to, say, a 170, since both scores blow their 75th either way. With that score, CCN w/ $ become strong options, and even H enters the realm of possibility. If OP targets regional schools with those numbers, they will be sacrificing the benefit of the strongest element of their application -- and the below-median GPA at many schools could still preclude full rides.

I also disagree to some extent that a career in state politics indicates that the law school attended is a wash. Schools like Penn and Columbia -- the lists of politicians hailing from either of these schools are long and illustrious -- have historically either directly and indirectly provided a more achievable route, depending on the state and region in question (for the midwest, for example, UChicago law has served as the starting point for many political aspirants -- anyone following Amy Klobuchar, US senator for MN and Uchi law alumn?). Also, CCN feed more commonly into the types of prestigious firms that can more easily jumpstart a career in politics (finding wealthy donors and a network of support, ect.)

Moreover, since "politics" is such an ethereal and unicorn-esque goal in the first place, OP himself admits the primary goal is employment -- which is why again the state in question matters. Not all flagship state u law school are created equal. Whats their LST score? Don't shoot yourself in the foot on this count, especially with that beautiful LSAT. As for LRAP, there are many career paths one can take in the public sector or gov't prior to entering politics that would qualify (these are extremely challenging to acquire, yet hence again the stronger school the better).


This is an exceedingly good post.

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dr123
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby dr123 » Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:02 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
dr123 wrote:Enlist Gun hard for OCS if you have political aspirations.


Army -> war hero -> public office is really TCR in this case

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echamberlin8
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby echamberlin8 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:26 am

lawschool22 wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:In any case, this thread sucks, because you'd have to be a moron to factor future political aspirations into a lawl school decision


Thanks - apparently I'm a moron for thinking through this decision thoroughly instead of blinding going with the general "T14 at sticker or bust" mentality. I'm so glad you cleared that up for me. This site is a truly great resource, but the rampant unwarranted hostility baffles me.


I agree with you there, lawschool22. Choosing a School seems to be a particular locus point for unwarranted aggression and insults in particular. I'm not sure what the deal is with that. From all of the lawyers I've met in real life, most of them are pretty polite, but then I see at least half of TLS being overly rude, so I wonder what the disparity is. Maybe the lawyers I meet in real life would insult a lot behind a computer screen too.

In any case, I still keep coming back to TLS because it has by far the best information from a 0L perspective online (at least that I've found).

Sorry I can't be of more help to your actual question, but I'm a 0L. Good luck, though.

timbs4339
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Sep 02, 2013 12:29 pm

echamberlin8 wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:In any case, this thread sucks, because you'd have to be a moron to factor future political aspirations into a lawl school decision


Thanks - apparently I'm a moron for thinking through this decision thoroughly instead of blinding going with the general "T14 at sticker or bust" mentality. I'm so glad you cleared that up for me. This site is a truly great resource, but the rampant unwarranted hostility baffles me.


I agree with you there, lawschool22. Choosing a School seems to be a particular locus point for unwarranted aggression and insults in particular. I'm not sure what the deal is with that. From all of the lawyers I've met in real life, most of them are pretty polite, but then I see at least half of TLS being overly rude, so I wonder what the disparity is. Maybe the lawyers I meet in real life would insult a lot behind a computer screen too.

In any case, I still keep coming back to TLS because it has by far the best information from a 0L perspective online (at least that I've found).

Sorry I can't be of more help to your actual question, but I'm a 0L. Good luck, though.


The fact that people at TLS are "behind a computer screen" is exactly what makes the advice much better than what you'll get from IRL lawyers. Look, if some 0L walked up to me and told me all about how she wanted to pay 200K to a crap law school so she could be a congresswoman, even I'd feel a bit guilty about telling her to get new dreams. They're especially not going to do it in language that makes it plain exactly how dumb an idea it is. If the lawyers you meet are older, then they may not even be able to approximate the current tuition at their alma mater, have no idea about the state of the job market, or believe that boomer bullshit that hard work and gumption and higher education is what allows you to make it in America.

Next time you meet a lawyer, ask them specific questions. How many young associates have you hired in the last few years? If you have, would you interview someone who graduated median from my school? If not, why? Would you go to law school if you had to pay [insert massive tuition figure here]?

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:04 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
echamberlin8 wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
Thanks - apparently I'm a moron for thinking through this decision thoroughly instead of blinding going with the general "T14 at sticker or bust" mentality. I'm so glad you cleared that up for me. This site is a truly great resource, but the rampant unwarranted hostility baffles me.


I agree with you there, lawschool22. Choosing a School seems to be a particular locus point for unwarranted aggression and insults in particular. I'm not sure what the deal is with that. From all of the lawyers I've met in real life, most of them are pretty polite, but then I see at least half of TLS being overly rude, so I wonder what the disparity is. Maybe the lawyers I meet in real life would insult a lot behind a computer screen too.

In any case, I still keep coming back to TLS because it has by far the best information from a 0L perspective online (at least that I've found).

Sorry I can't be of more help to your actual question, but I'm a 0L. Good luck, though.


The fact that people at TLS are "behind a computer screen" is exactly what makes the advice much better than what you'll get from IRL lawyers. Look, if some 0L walked up to me and told me all about how she wanted to pay 200K to a crap law school so she could be a congresswoman, even I'd feel a bit guilty about telling her to get new dreams. They're especially not going to do it in language that makes it plain exactly how dumb an idea it is. If the lawyers you meet are older, then they may not even be able to approximate the current tuition at their alma mater, have no idea about the state of the job market, or believe that boomer bullshit that hard work and gumption and higher education is what allows you to make it in America.

Next time you meet a lawyer, ask them specific questions. How many young associates have you hired in the last few years? If you have, would you interview someone who graduated median from my school? If not, why? Would you go to law school if you had to pay [insert massive tuition figure here]?


Yup. In the context of an advice forum for a major life decision, politeness and practicality are usually trade offs. A point that bears repeating: Literally tens of thousands are people are still going to godawful schools for a pissload of money. Most of them are going to regret this decision. TLS tries to connect the dots for people who can't see what an awful investment most schools are just by looking at the publicly available data. I meet people going or planning to go to awful schools who say things like "I just don't believe all that doom and gloom stuff", as though facts were something to be believed or not believed, like TLS dogmatically worships at the Church Of Don't Go To Law School. There's nothing to be "believed", it's just shit, and it's all right there in front of you.

If you were walking with a friend and he was about to step in dog shit, you'd say "Hey, watch out, you're about to step in dog shit." If he started talking about how can't avoid the dog shit because he's a bad test taker, or he's getting too old, or he's wanted to step in dog shit ever since he was twelve, you wouldn't start having a polite discussion on the relative merits of stepping in dog shit. You'd just say "What the fuck? That's retarded. Don't step in the dog shit." If TLS tells students considering awful schools "I don't think it's a good idea because blah blah blah", that gives someone the notion that it is a point that is legitimately up for debate. That's why TLS says "you are about to make a tremendously stupid decision"--to forcefully dissuade. Personally, I say the same shit IRL, but that's just because I'm a prick about that stuff. Most polite people won't tell you what an idiot you're being even if informing you so would help you--folks usually just aren't wired that way. But you need that information before doing something that could quite literally ruin your life. So the "rampant unwarranted hostility" is part of why TLS is such a great resource in the first place--so you don't base your decision on your Boomer parents' friends who keep telling you that everything will turn out great as long as you work hard and blah blah blah bootstraps.

People are saying ITT that making ambitions for a high-profile political career the top criterion for choosing a law school is dumb because, well, it's dumb. It's just not a realistic path for most people. Pick a path that you have a good chance of getting from the schools you're considering.

NYstate
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby NYstate » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:10 pm

echamberlin8 wrote:
lawschool22 wrote:
MyNameIsFlynn! wrote:In any case, this thread sucks, because you'd have to be a moron to factor future political aspirations into a lawl school decision


Thanks - apparently I'm a moron for thinking through this decision thoroughly instead of blinding going with the general "T14 at sticker or bust" mentality. I'm so glad you cleared that up for me. This site is a truly great resource, but the rampant unwarranted hostility baffles me.


I agree with you there, lawschool22. Choosing a School seems to be a particular locus point for unwarranted aggression and insults in particular. I'm not sure what the deal is with that. From all of the lawyers I've met in real life, most of them are pretty polite, but then I see at least half of TLS being overly rude, so I wonder what the disparity is. Maybe the lawyers I meet in real life would insult a lot behind a computer screen too.

In any case, I still keep coming back to TLS because it has by far the best information from a 0L perspective online (at least that I've found).

Sorry I can't be of more help to your actual question, but I'm a 0L. Good luck, though.


TLS is nicer than it used to be. But that doesn't mean people won't call an idiotic idea idiotic.

No one says "T14 at sticker or bust." It isn't a thing.

NYstate
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby NYstate » Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:11 pm

John_rizzy_rawls wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Sorry to be kind of an asshat about it; TLS sees its fair amount of posters that are "I GOT IN TO GEORGETOWN AT STICKER AND I WANT BIGPRESIDENCY, SHOULD I GO?"

Basically, figure out if you want to practice law, or if you want to practice politics. If politics, the only decision that makes sense is a regional school in the area you want to work at for almost-free. If law, T14 with money.


In theory this makes sense, but not if we look at the raw admissions data from an optimization standpoint. OPs incredible LSAT will only serve as an asset at a specific class of schools, those being basically upper T13. I doubt the regional T1 will be more generous as a result of a 175 compared to, say, a 170, since both scores blow their 75th either way. With that score, CCN w/ $ become strong options, and even H enters the realm of possibility. If OP targets regional schools with those numbers, they will be sacrificing the benefit of the strongest element of their application -- and the below-median GPA at many schools could still preclude full rides.

I also disagree to some extent that a career in state politics indicates that the law school attended is a wash. Schools like Penn and Columbia -- the lists of politicians hailing from either of these schools are long and illustrious -- have historically either directly and indirectly provided a more achievable route, depending on the state and region in question (for the midwest, for example, UChicago law has served as the starting point for many political aspirants -- anyone following Amy Klobuchar, US senator for MN and Uchi law alumn?). Also, CCN feed more commonly into the types of prestigious firms that can more easily jumpstart a career in politics (finding wealthy donors and a network of support, ect.)

Moreover, since "politics" is such an ethereal and unicorn-esque goal in the first place, OP himself admits the primary goal is employment -- which is why again the state in question matters. Not all flagship state u law school are created equal. Whats their LST score? Don't shoot yourself in the foot on this count, especially with that beautiful LSAT. As for LRAP, there are many career paths one can take in the public sector or gov't prior to entering politics that would qualify (these are extremely challenging to acquire, yet hence again the stronger school the better).


This is an exceedingly good post.


And exceedingly polite as well.




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