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lawschool22
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Mods - please delete

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:11 pm

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Last edited by lawschool22 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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skers
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby skers » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:16 pm

The most important thing to keep in mind when you have political aspirations is to never reveal your face on an online forum.

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thefuturenow
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby thefuturenow » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:18 pm

Isn't the correct answer HYS?

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:20 pm

TemporarySaint wrote:The most important thing to keep in mind when you have political aspirations is to never reveal your face on an online forum.


That is sage advice.

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twenty
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby twenty » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:20 pm

There is a HUGE difference between your goals. You have absolutely no business going to law school (any law school) for anything more than 30k total if you want politics. It's basically one of the few areas you can't do PAYE/IBR in, and frankly, your regional school has just as much sway, if not more sway, than does most of the T14 excluding HYS.

On the other hand, if you're going for a federal clerkship or AUSA (which is kind of adorable, since you can't get AUSA without some serious seat time in crim law/biglaw for civil), you have no business going anywhere BUT HYS, which you're not getting with your numbers.

Really, though, if you want politics, don't go to law school. Trying the law school -> politics route worked really well for the boomers that paid 2k a year in tuition to go to UMich law, put out a sign, and made millions.

If you want politics, do yourself a favor and actually get involved in politics.

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:24 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:You have absolutely no business going to law school (any law school) for anything more than 30k total if you want politics. It's basically one of the few areas you can't do PAYE/IBR in, and frankly, your regional school has just as much sway, if not more sway, than does most of the T14 excluding HYS.


This is what I figured. And thank you for the harsh truth on the fed clerk/AUSA (which I also figured).

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twenty
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby twenty » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:28 pm

Sorry to be kind of an asshat about it; TLS sees its fair amount of posters that are "I GOT IN TO GEORGETOWN AT STICKER AND I WANT BIGPRESIDENCY, SHOULD I GO?"

Basically, figure out if you want to practice law, or if you want to practice politics. If politics, the only decision that makes sense is a regional school in the area you want to work at for almost-free. If law, T14 with money.

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 3:36 pm

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Last edited by lawschool22 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:01 pm

That's a start. What kind/s of law do you think you'd like to practice?

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:20 pm

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Last edited by lawschool22 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Samara
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Samara » Wed Aug 21, 2013 4:51 pm

Have you worked in politics before? If there is anything worse than law, it has to be politics.

If you are dead set on politics and have worked in it significantly, go to local school. Otherwise, typical analysis, re: jerbs, etc.

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:02 pm

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jbagelboy
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Aug 21, 2013 5:17 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Sorry to be kind of an asshat about it; TLS sees its fair amount of posters that are "I GOT IN TO GEORGETOWN AT STICKER AND I WANT BIGPRESIDENCY, SHOULD I GO?"

Basically, figure out if you want to practice law, or if you want to practice politics. If politics, the only decision that makes sense is a regional school in the area you want to work at for almost-free. If law, T14 with money.


In theory this makes sense, but not if we look at the raw admissions data from an optimization standpoint. OPs incredible LSAT will only serve as an asset at a specific class of schools, those being basically upper T13. I doubt the regional T1 will be more generous as a result of a 175 compared to, say, a 170, since both scores blow their 75th either way. With that score, CCN w/ $ become strong options, and even H enters the realm of possibility. If OP targets regional schools with those numbers, they will be sacrificing the benefit of the strongest element of their application -- and the below-median GPA at many schools could still preclude full rides.

I also disagree to some extent that a career in state politics indicates that the law school attended is a wash. Schools like Penn and Columbia -- the lists of politicians hailing from either of these schools are long and illustrious -- have historically either directly and indirectly provided a more achievable route, depending on the state and region in question (for the midwest, for example, UChicago law has served as the starting point for many political aspirants -- anyone following Amy Klobuchar, US senator for MN and Uchi law alumn?). Also, CCN feed more commonly into the types of prestigious firms that can more easily jumpstart a career in politics (finding wealthy donors and a network of support, ect.)

Moreover, since "politics" is such an ethereal and unicorn-esque goal in the first place, OP himself admits the primary goal is employment -- which is why again the state in question matters. Not all flagship state u law school are created equal. Whats their LST score? Don't shoot yourself in the foot on this count, especially with that beautiful LSAT. As for LRAP, there are many career paths one can take in the public sector or gov't prior to entering politics that would qualify (these are extremely challenging to acquire, yet hence again the stronger school the better).

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Aug 21, 2013 6:10 pm

twentypercentmore wrote: AUSA (which is kind of adorable, since you can't get AUSA without some serious seat time in crim law/biglaw for civil), you have no business going anywhere BUT HYS, which you're not getting with your numbers.


Anecdotal evidence ahoy! My brother in law got AUSA fresh out of a T2 school. Granted, this was like five years ago, and he was number two or three in his class.

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twenty
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby twenty » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:25 pm

TheSpanishMain wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote: AUSA (which is kind of adorable, since you can't get AUSA without some serious seat time in crim law/biglaw for civil), you have no business going anywhere BUT HYS, which you're not getting with your numbers.


Anecdotal evidence ahoy! My brother in law got AUSA fresh out of a T2 school. Granted, this was like five years ago, and he was number two or three in his class.


The only office I know of that has hired AUSAs right out of law school is Southern District of California. And even they don't do that anymore.

That said, good for him. ;)

notalobbyist
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby notalobbyist » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:32 pm

Go T-14 for best risk/reward.

Ignoring the difficulties in running for office and that pesky time in-between running and graduation, who do you plan on financing your campaign? You'll make lots of friends with disposable income in T-14, not so much in the regional.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby TheSpanishMain » Wed Aug 21, 2013 7:48 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:
TheSpanishMain wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote: AUSA (which is kind of adorable, since you can't get AUSA without some serious seat time in crim law/biglaw for civil), you have no business going anywhere BUT HYS, which you're not getting with your numbers.


Anecdotal evidence ahoy! My brother in law got AUSA fresh out of a T2 school. Granted, this was like five years ago, and he was number two or three in his class.


The only office I know of that has hired AUSAs right out of law school is Southern District of California. And even they don't do that anymore.

That said, good for him. ;)


It's possible he did something else for a short time before I knew him, but if that's the case, it would have been for a year at most. Point is, he got into the gig either straight from school or with very little experience. Or I'm waaaay underestimating how long he's been a lawyer. I'll have to ask him.

Either way, yeah, his experience is super atypical. He's since joined the T14 or bust crowd.

timbs4339
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby timbs4339 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 8:14 pm

There are obviously a few self-financed guys like Edwards, but by far the most common route into politics, for a lawyer, is to become a prosecutor. Of course, having family wealth and connections (Spitzer) probably trumps slogging out in the trenches at the DA office. Spitzer's an exaggerated example running for a prominent office, but some wannabe politicians I went to school with plan to do that on a smaller scale- trade on family connections in a smaller city or county to get into the state legislature or something.

Think long and hard about whether that is what you want to do. It takes a certain kind of mindset to be a trial prosecutor. You don't have to be a lifer, of course, but you also won't be able to jump right into running for office at the same time you're trying misdemeanors.

There's a way to do it in the private sector, but that will take a lot of networking and being involved in your local political clubs or doing pro bono work for the cause to get the right connections. T14 will of course help you to get that big firm job where you can do pro bono election law or cause stuff.

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Yukos
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Yukos » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:34 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
twentypercentmore wrote:Sorry to be kind of an asshat about it; TLS sees its fair amount of posters that are "I GOT IN TO GEORGETOWN AT STICKER AND I WANT BIGPRESIDENCY, SHOULD I GO?"

Basically, figure out if you want to practice law, or if you want to practice politics. If politics, the only decision that makes sense is a regional school in the area you want to work at for almost-free. If law, T14 with money.


In theory this makes sense, but not if we look at the raw admissions data from an optimization standpoint. OPs incredible LSAT will only serve as an asset at a specific class of schools, those being basically upper T13. I doubt the regional T1 will be more generous as a result of a 175 compared to, say, a 170, since both scores blow their 75th either way. With that score, CCN w/ $ become strong options, and even H enters the realm of possibility. If OP targets regional schools with those numbers, they will be sacrificing the benefit of the strongest element of their application -- and the below-median GPA at many schools could still preclude full rides.

I also disagree to some extent that a career in state politics indicates that the law school attended is a wash. Schools like Penn and Columbia -- the lists of politicians hailing from either of these schools are long and illustrious -- have historically either directly and indirectly provided a more achievable route, depending on the state and region in question (for the midwest, for example, UChicago law has served as the starting point for many political aspirants -- anyone following Amy Klobuchar, US senator for MN and Uchi law alumn?). Also, CCN feed more commonly into the types of prestigious firms that can more easily jumpstart a career in politics (finding wealthy donors and a network of support, ect.)

Moreover, since "politics" is such an ethereal and unicorn-esque goal in the first place, OP himself admits the primary goal is employment -- which is why again the state in question matters. Not all flagship state u law school are created equal. Whats their LST score? Don't shoot yourself in the foot on this count, especially with that beautiful LSAT. As for LRAP, there are many career paths one can take in the public sector or gov't prior to entering politics that would qualify (these are extremely challenging to acquire, yet hence again the stronger school the better).


This guy makes some fantastic points.

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lawschool22
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby lawschool22 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 9:36 am

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Last edited by lawschool22 on Tue Oct 29, 2013 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JJ123
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby JJ123 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:18 am

Harvard and Yale are the best tickets to national office: get in there, and you have increased your chances of making the Senate by probably 10,000 times the average citizen. Barring that, Columbia, Chicago, and Georgetown are great choices. As far as a career path, I would strongly consider becoming a prosecutor. It's a great path to becoming a judge, and joining the state legislature (which are the best entry points into political office).

As far as being a "politics gunner", you need to get involved in politics now. Do bitchwork for someone running for an office. Answer phones for 5 hours a week. Network with the people in your party. Getting selected to run for office is very much about who you know within the party.

What political party?

JJ123
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby JJ123 » Thu Aug 22, 2013 10:20 am

Also, realize that the T14 rankings for Biglaw are not the same as the T14 rankings for politicians. Stanford doesn't hold a candle to Yale, Harvard, or Georgetown in terms of getting into politics.

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jbagelboy
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby jbagelboy » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:09 am

JJ123 wrote: Stanford doesn't hold a candle to Yale, Harvard, or Georgetown in terms of getting into politics.


Lol not for the California legislature

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Samara
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby Samara » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:18 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
JJ123 wrote: Stanford doesn't hold a candle to Yale, Harvard, or Georgetown in terms of getting into politics.


Lol not for the California legislature

Yeah, it's all local and it all depends on what you want to do and the route you want to take. Yale, Harvard and GULC are the best if you want to get to Capitol Hill via DC. The best school in your state is the best if you want state legislature or to come up that way. Harvard doesn't carry much more political weight in Indiana than Notre Dame or IU-B, for example.

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MyNameIsFlynn!
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Re: Political Aspirations - Choosing a School

Postby MyNameIsFlynn! » Thu Aug 22, 2013 1:24 pm

Samara wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
JJ123 wrote: Stanford doesn't hold a candle to Yale, Harvard, or Georgetown in terms of getting into politics.


Lol not for the California legislature

Yeah, it's all local and it all depends on what you want to do and the route you want to take. Yale, Harvard and GULC are the best if you want to get to Capitol Hill via DC. The best school in your state is the best if you want state legislature or to come up that way. Harvard doesn't carry much more political weight in Indiana than Notre Dame or IU-B, for example.


lolwut @ bolded




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