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yogi1467
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Postby yogi1467 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:25 pm

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legends159
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby legends159 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:33 pm

SLS is great but debt free at a top law school should always be the answer.

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twenty
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:36 pm

Usually I'd say T13 with a full ride > H/S. You're also probably going to have a lot more debt than 150k from Stanford.

If you have political aspirations, definitely do not go to law school, least of all Stanford where you're going to have 170k+ non-dischargable debt that LRAP/IBR won't cover. Stanford also doesn't include academia in its LRAP, so... again, there's that. Also, even from Stanford, less than 5% are going into politics or academia. The advantage you gain there by going to Stanford is not worth 170k+.

Even if you could get PI from Stanford (which is probably a fairly safe bet, in fairness), you're 1) working similar hours to biglaw 2) making a fraction of the money, 3) prestigious PI has a nasty habit of hiring biglaw dropouts and 4) most of the PI opportunities you'll get from Stanford you could have just as easily gotten from MVBP.
Last edited by twenty on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

remainsofthebay
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby remainsofthebay » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:39 pm

Think about it this way.

You just won the lottery, and you now have a cashier's check in hand for $150,000. Do you want to deposit the money in CD's that accrue 3% a year and go to NPV, or do you want to mail that check to Stanford? Whatever your answer is, that's what you should do.

dstars823
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby dstars823 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:41 pm

remainsofthebay wrote:Think about it this way.

You just won the lottery, and you now have a cashier's check in hand for $150,000. Do you want to deposit the money in CD's that accrue 3% a year and go to NPV, or do you want to mail that check to Stanford? Whatever your answer is, that's what you should do.


i think the analogy would better be suited that not only do you mail that check to stanford, but you have to make another 150k on top of that...

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twenty
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:43 pm

remainsofthebay wrote:Think about it this way.

You just won the lottery, and you now have a cashier's check in hand for $150,000. Do you want to deposit the money in CD's that accrue 3% a year and go to NPV, or do you want to mail that check to Stanford? Whatever your answer is, that's what you should do.


We've talked about this on TLS before, and that's not quite the convincing metaphor it should be.

If someone handed you a check for 150k, you'd graduate from Stanford debt-free, which would give you the freedom to pursue politics, academia, your PhD, whatever. That's a pretty legit option.

It's the graduating with 170k of debt that sucks.

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sinfiery
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:53 pm

NPV, lol.

Depending on aid, I'd pick full rides at CCNPVBMDNC over full sticker HYS
Last edited by sinfiery on Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

senorhosh
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby senorhosh » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:54 pm

NYU PENN V?
or NU PENN V?

Either way I'd take Penn or NYU only. Otherwise Stanford

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twenty
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:58 pm

The difference between Penn and UVA is like mayyyybe 25k. There is no way NYU and Penn are worth it over Stanford, whereas Virginia isn't.

yogi1467
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby yogi1467 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:58 pm

NYU, Penn, UVA. Sorry about the confusion.

And lol @sinfiery, great response.

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twenty
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:00 pm

Also, outing the people voting on Stanford as currently on the waitlist at NYU/UVA and hoping that this guy jumps ship on a huge scholarship. >_>

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sinfiery
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:02 pm

Lol, I would kill for SLS but someone who wants PI or politics should not go 300k into debt.


Once OP has an aid package, there may be an actual question

NYstate
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:13 pm

Isn't Stanford better for academics?

You should get aid from Stanford too.

I don't see this as a slamdunk against Stanford. Find out how much it will cost.

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Kronk
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby Kronk » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:14 pm

sinfiery wrote:Lol, I would kill for SLS but someone who wants PI or politics should not go 300k into debt.


OTOH, in either of those jobs his debt would be gone in 10 years.

chillipepper
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby chillipepper » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:22 pm

Ill give the case for sls.
-Sls degree will open more doors immediately out of law school.
-If you want it you'll be able to get a 160k job right out of ls.
-Academia is never a guarantee, but a very very small chance at it at npv. If you really want it you can shape your 3l yr at sls to write a thesis and get something substantial published before graduating.
-H/P system
-yolo, palo alto is the paradise of all law schools.

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sinfiery
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:26 pm

Kronk wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Lol, I would kill for SLS but someone who wants PI or politics should not go 300k into debt.


OTOH, in either of those jobs his debt would be gone in 10 years.


Didn't know politics counted under PLSF but still


Unless this SLS admit is unique (And I think one of the posts that helped convince me of this was from an SLS student), someone who wants something so wide and generally idealistic as PI, politics, or possibly academia with no real distinctions made between the three or active plans to achieve them may collapse when push comes to shove in law school and a chance at unemployment comes knocking.


I think a decent aid package from SLS (17-20k+/year) makes this a much easier pill to swallow or if you are positive you will be in a PLSF job for 10 years after graduation.

NYstate
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:32 pm

sinfiery wrote:
Kronk wrote:
sinfiery wrote:Lol, I would kill for SLS but someone who wants PI or politics should not go 300k into debt.


OTOH, in either of those jobs his debt would be gone in 10 years.


Didn't know politics counted under PLSF but still


Unless this SLS admit is unique (And I think one of the posts that helped convince me of this was from an SLS student), someone who wants something so wide and generally idealistic as PI, politics, or possibly academia with no real distinctions made between the three or active plans to achieve them may collapse when push comes to shove in law school and a chance at unemployment comes knocking.

I think Stanford is supposed to have a great LRAP plan. I can't find out much about it from the website. Ask Dean Deal.
I think a decent aid package from SLS (17-20k+/year) makes this a much easier pill to swallow or if you are positive you will be in a PLSF job for 10 years after graduation.

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Kronk
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby Kronk » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:39 pm

Stanford has a great LRAP (or at least they did when I was applying), and people underrate how many jobs qualify for PAYE, PSLF, etc.

It's not something to rely on from a school like UCLA or something, since those jobs are sometimes difficult to get even from decent and good schools. But from Stanford? C'mon. Dude will be able to nab a PI / gov job that qualifies.

NYstate
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby NYstate » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:42 pm

Kronk wrote:Stanford has a great LRAP (or at least they did when I was applying), and people underrate how many jobs qualify for PAYE, PSLF, etc.

It's not something to rely on from a school like UCLA or something, since those jobs are sometimes difficult to get even from decent and good schools. But from Stanford? C'mon. Dude will be able to nab a PI / gov job that qualifies.


That was my impression as well. OP should not discount the opportunities from
Stanford.

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sinfiery
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:45 pm

I mean, I think they likely could. This post was enough to give me pause though about it's relative difficulty to biglaw. http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p6849827


And it's not as if either of these options would be a huge mistake, I just have my second thoughts about someones ability to stay true to the PI track when they are already looking at academia outs as a 0L. You can't really gun for both and even at SLS, I'd imagine you would have to gun for either to be successful.

Once the aid package comes out, I think this would likely fall in SLSs favor anyways but sticker is a giant amount of money.

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Kronk
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby Kronk » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:50 pm

sinfiery wrote:I mean, I think they likely could. This post was enough to give me pause though about it's relative difficulty to biglaw. http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... 0#p6849827


And it's not as if either of these options would be a huge mistake, I just have my second thoughts about someones ability to stay true to the PI track when they are already looking at Academia outs as a 0L. You can't really gun for both and even at SLS, I'd imagine you would have to gun for either to be successful.

Once the aid package comes out, I think this would likely fall in SLSs favor anyways but sticker is a giant amount of money.


Eh, I love soj to death, but he had only gone through 1L when he made that post. The "annoying paperwork" for LRAP isn't terrible, I know dozens of people on PSLF or IBR including family members and it's very easy to get on, and I can't really get on board with the "even if you don't want BigLaw you'll end up doing BigLaw" thing based on personal experience.

Aside from statistically insignificant outcomes (OP doesn't get any job at all out of SLS), the worst that can happen is he has a lot of debt with a huge salary because he realized he wanted BigLaw. He can then pine about how his take home is only $6k a month in his late twenties as opposed to the $8.5k a month he would've been pulling in having gone to NVP and still made BigLaw (much tougher to do, more like a coinflip).

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twenty
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 15, 2013 3:50 pm

chillipepper wrote:-Sls degree will open more doors immediately out of law school.


The only significant door SLS opens that NYU, Penn, or UVA doesn't open is federal clerkships. And OP is either not interested, or smart enough to make himself not interested in federal clerkships as a 0L.

-If you want it you'll be able to get a 160k job right out of ls.


Non-unique. The real advantage Stanford has is (and it is a big advantage) in smaller markets that don't pay 160k starting.

If you really want it you can shape your 3l yr at sls to write a thesis and get something substantial published before graduating.


It doesn't have to do with "really wanting it", it has to do with the fact that law schools are absolutely, under no circumstances, hiring.

-H/P system


This is not as great as it sounds.

-yolo, palo alto is the paradise of all law schools.


Can't argue with that one. ;)

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twenty
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:00 pm

Kronk wrote:(much tougher to do, more like a coinflip).


If that were actually true, Stanford would win by a lot, since you're presuming Stanford has a ~100% placement into biglaw.

Even the lowest metric you can employ -- A3 + Biglaw at the lowest school of those three, UVA, you're still looking at a 60/40 split. At Penn, you're looking at 77/23 split (with 85%+ of the folks wanting biglaw getting it from OCI)

and I can't really get on board with the "even if you don't want BigLaw you'll end up doing BigLaw" thing based on personal experience.


Yeah, but look at his goals. "PI" is about as obtainable from NYU or UVA as it is from Stanford. If he really wanted DOJ Honors or to move over to SDNY AUSA in a few years, that'd be one thing.
Last edited by twenty on Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sinfiery
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby sinfiery » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:03 pm

Kronk wrote:
Eh, I love soj to death, but he had only gone through 1L when he made that post. The "annoying paperwork" for LRAP isn't terrible, I know dozens of people on PSLF or IBR including family members and it's very easy to get on, and I can't really get on board with the "even if you don't want BigLaw you'll end up doing BigLaw" thing based on personal experience.

Aside from statistically insignificant outcomes (OP doesn't get any job at all out of SLS), the worst that can happen is he has a lot of debt with a huge salary because he realized he wanted BigLaw. He can then pine about how his take home is only $6k a month in his late twenties as opposed to the $8.5k a month he would've been pulling in having gone to NVP and still made BigLaw (much tougher to do, more like a coinflip).


Yeah, I mean HYS with a PLSF qualifying job is probably one of the best outcomes you can have.
If OP can rely on it, which at first thought you would definitely think so for a SLS grad, I wouldn't think twice about attending.


My main concern definitely comes from the casual tone I read into OPs post about pursuing these types of jobs along with the whole "everyone starts off wanting PI but at the end you see them at OCI" mantra you see here sometimes.

If OP is sure of their goals, SLS can't be beat. But if you are a bit unsure, I do give pause to going into 300k debt

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twenty
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Re: Last minute possibility -- S vs. NPV full-ride

Postby twenty » Thu Aug 15, 2013 4:07 pm

Yeah, I mean HYS with a PLSF qualifying job is probably one of the best outcomes you can have.


HYS uniquely don't use/require PSLF to qualify or forgive LS debt.

EDIT> And Cornell, too. I'm dumb.




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