Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

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IAFG
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby IAFG » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:04 am

jselson wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Rwong wrote:
malleus discentium wrote:So you wrapped up undergrad at 20, were No. 5 in your class, served on the executive board of a LR, had WE, did a federal clerkship and worked your ass off the whole time. Seems to me like you're a special snowflake. Most people acknowledge that some special snowflakes at TTTs can do well. But treating the whole as if it has the characteristics of one part that is unlikely to be representative is 135.



Did I say TTT is for everyone? I said it was the right choice for me and it can be for others. You (as do many others) obviously have your mind set, so there is nothing for me to say. I am out though, as I have a real job to get to tomorrow, while y'all stay here finding justifications for your own choices and putting others down for their own. Have a good night.

I agree, it can be right for some people. But the number of people who think it's right for them when they decide >>>>>> the number of people it actually works out for. Discouraging people from attending TTTs will almost always be doing that person a favor.


Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a, well, you know.

A... completely inapplicable concept to the issue at hand?

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jselson
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby jselson » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:12 am

IAFG wrote:
jselson wrote:
IAFG wrote:
Rwong wrote:Did I say TTT is for everyone? I said it was the right choice for me and it can be for others. You (as do many others) obviously have your mind set, so there is nothing for me to say. I am out though, as I have a real job to get to tomorrow, while y'all stay here finding justifications for your own choices and putting others down for their own. Have a good night.

I agree, it can be right for some people. But the number of people who think it's right for them when they decide >>>>>> the number of people it actually works out for. Discouraging people from attending TTTs will almost always be doing that person a favor.


Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a, well, you know.

A... completely inapplicable concept to the issue at hand?


I was agreeing with you. Ie. a lotta folks think "This person went to a TTT, worked their butt off, and succeeded. So if I want to succeed, I just need to get into a TTT, work my butt off, and voila."

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IAFG
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby IAFG » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:19 am

Oohhhh now it makes sense.

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bananasplit19
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby bananasplit19 » Thu Aug 15, 2013 1:35 am

jselson wrote:Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a, well, you know.

Joshua Lyman wrote:Uh, uh, "post" = after. After hoc, "ergo" = therefore. After hoc, therefore...something else...hoc.

rad lulz
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby rad lulz » Thu Aug 15, 2013 2:03 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
malleus discentium wrote:
Rwong wrote:
Example: University of Chicago has an employment score of 94, but 96 percent of the graduating class is employed in a J.D.-required job.


The employment score is full time, long-term JD required jobs, which is the 94.9% number for Chicago. The 96.3% number, which I assume you got from this page, includes all jobs for which a JD is required, including those that are not full time. So while JD-required jobs that are not full time might be acceptable jobs, probably not. So the employment score is the number that matters. And only 19 schools have or beat the number you cited. And none are TTTs.

Well, there's this, which fits the numbers, is TTT (and the firms etc. OP is mentioning suggest Florida): http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=fiu&show=chars (I think the OP Is looking at all jobs for which a JD is required, and not the employment score - i.e. not subtracting the underemployment score. If you've never looked at LST before it's not an unusual mistake.)

Ahh makes sense

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jingosaur
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby jingosaur » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:22 am

Yeah, with the 4th best employment score in the region claim, OP almost definitely went to FIU. That being said, FIU is not a terrible choice for law school for some people because of the pretty cheap in-state tuition and okay placement. OP finished near the top of his/her class and got a sweet gov't job which is a pretty nice turnout. Congrats!

Other than the "FIU Students Taking Questions" thread where the students were paid by the school, I don't think TLS has anything against FIU. If TLS got to choose which ABA law schools live and which die, I think FIU would make the cut even though A LOT of Florida schools would not. Barry, Florida Coastal, Ave Maria, and St. Thomas-Florida are examples of the horrible schools that TLSers discredit and there are a lot of people who go to schools like FIU hoping to take career paths that are unobtainable/unrealistic (BigLaw, international law, etc.) at a school like FIU, but going there for a mid-5 figures legal job in southern Florida isn't an awful decision if you're truly passionate about being a lawyer and you don't have other options.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby Scotusnerd » Fri Aug 16, 2013 7:19 pm

I think y'all have over-analyzed this beyond the point of any possible use. And frankly, I'm pretty glad I'm not going to have to practice law with some of you clowns either.

Y'all are some rude, mean motherfuckers.

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Toby Ziegler
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby Toby Ziegler » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:53 pm

bananasplit19 wrote:
jselson wrote:Post hoc ergo propter hoc is a, well, you know.

Joshua Lyman wrote:Uh, uh, "post" = after. After hoc, "ergo" = therefore. After hoc, therefore...something else...hoc.


I am so happy that I am not the only one who immediately thought of The West Wing when I read this. Well played Banana, I like your style.

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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby t-14orbust » Fri Aug 16, 2013 9:54 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:I think y'all have over-analyzed this beyond the point of any possible use. And frankly, I'm pretty glad I'm not going to have to practice law with some of you clowns either.

Y'all are some rude, mean motherfuckers.


u mad?

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jingosaur
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby jingosaur » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:20 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:I think y'all have over-analyzed this beyond the point of any possible use.



Isn't this what lawyers/prospective lawyers are supposed to do? And odds are that you'll work with someone much worse than the average TLS poster in your legal career. People suck.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby Scotusnerd » Fri Aug 16, 2013 10:46 pm

jingosaur wrote:Isn't this what lawyers/prospective lawyers are supposed to do? And odds are that you'll work with someone much worse than the average TLS poster in your legal career. People suck.


Lawyers are supposed to win cases for their clients, not get distracted by cute little issues they can spend hours happily beavering away at. I've seen a lot of appellate briefs where lawyers couldn't keep their eye on the ball. It can definitely kill a case.

And yes, people suck. That doesn't mean you shouldn't tell them to quit being assholes.

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TheSpanishMain
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby TheSpanishMain » Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:38 am

Scotusnerd wrote:I think y'all have over-analyzed this beyond the point of any possible use. And frankly, I'm pretty glad I'm not going to have to practice law with some of you clowns either.

Y'all are some rude, mean motherfuckers.


TLS has two things in abundance. Catty, hyper-insecure twenty two year olds....and really, really valuable information. Gotta take the good with the bad.

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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:33 am

Scotusnerd wrote:I think y'all have over-analyzed this beyond the point of any possible use. And frankly, I'm pretty glad I'm not going to have to practice law with some of you clowns either.

Y'all are some rude, mean motherfuckers.

I agree that the response ITT was a little bit rude, but the point was there is no "possible use" for this kind of thread. The key to having a good outcome at FIU is booking your classes, getting on law review, and having a big scholarship? Fine, but by definition there's going to be something like 80% of the class who can't do that.

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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby Mount Elbrus » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:25 am

With some exceptions (notably the vale of tears and the no offer thread), most threads about outcomes here are almost always positive. It is risky to talk about success from a TTT, because most will not be successful, depending on your definition of success. Personally, I go against the common advice a lot. I recommend going part time to a lower ranked school with a scholarship. If you don't do extremely well, drop out.

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IAFG
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby IAFG » Mon Aug 19, 2013 9:30 am

Mount Elbrus wrote:With some exceptions (notably the vale of tears and the no offer thread), most threads about outcomes here are almost always positive. It is risky to talk about success from a TTT, because most will not be successful, depending on your definition of success. Personally, I go against the common advice a lot. I recommend going part time to a lower ranked school with a scholarship. If you don't do extremely well, drop out.

That has really become the "common advice."

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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 10:29 am

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:I think y'all have over-analyzed this beyond the point of any possible use. And frankly, I'm pretty glad I'm not going to have to practice law with some of you clowns either.

Y'all are some rude, mean motherfuckers.

I agree that the response ITT was a little bit rude, but the point was there is no "possible use" for this kind of thread. The key to having a good outcome at FIU is booking your classes, getting on law review, and having a big scholarship? Fine, but by definition there's going to be something like 80% of the class who can't do that.


This. You need the posters to overanalyze this stuff because the OP never puts the inevitable caveats upfront, leaving 0Ls with the impression that all the internet is lying to them and they just have to get into a TTT and work hard or something. When you find out the OP booked his classes or has a dad who's a partner it tends to put things in perspective.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:53 am

timbs4339 wrote:This. You need the posters to overanalyze this stuff because the OP never puts the inevitable caveats upfront, leaving 0Ls with the impression that all the internet is lying to them and they just have to get into a TTT and work hard or something. When you find out the OP booked his classes or has a dad who's a partner it tends to put things in perspective.


That's a valuable message. But no cause excuses rudeness or bullying.

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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby Ti Malice » Mon Aug 19, 2013 11:54 am

timbs4339 wrote:
dixiecupdrinking wrote:
Scotusnerd wrote:I think y'all have over-analyzed this beyond the point of any possible use. And frankly, I'm pretty glad I'm not going to have to practice law with some of you clowns either.

Y'all are some rude, mean motherfuckers.

I agree that the response ITT was a little bit rude, but the point was there is no "possible use" for this kind of thread. The key to having a good outcome at FIU is booking your classes, getting on law review, and having a big scholarship? Fine, but by definition there's going to be something like 80% of the class who can't do that.


This. You need the posters to overanalyze this stuff because the OP never puts the inevitable caveats upfront, leaving 0Ls with the impression that all the internet is lying to them and they just have to get into a TTT and work hard or something. When you find out the OP booked his classes or has a dad who's a partner it tends to put things in perspective.


Well said.

The responses in this thread were not out of line.

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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 12:49 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:This. You need the posters to overanalyze this stuff because the OP never puts the inevitable caveats upfront, leaving 0Ls with the impression that all the internet is lying to them and they just have to get into a TTT and work hard or something. When you find out the OP booked his classes or has a dad who's a partner it tends to put things in perspective.


That's a valuable message. But no cause excuses rudeness or bullying.


To some people, any criticism of any law school is rudeness or bullying if it makes someone feel bad. How many times have we heard the effect of "telling someone to retake or don't go is insulting and elitist?"

Whether it's effective to be so blunt is a different story.

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Scotusnerd
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby Scotusnerd » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:09 pm

timbs4339 wrote:To some people, any criticism of any law school is rudeness or bullying if it makes someone feel bad. How many times have we heard the effect of "telling someone to retake or don't go is insulting and elitist?"

Whether it's effective to be so blunt is a different story.



We can argue this forever, but I'll just say this: these posts were not blunt, they were rude.

1. A blunt person says "Interesting post, but this isn't a good idea and here's why." A rude person says "This post sucks because ___"
2. A blunt person tells someone their post is unhelpful. A rude (and bullying) person figures out where the person is and outing their school for no reason other than to make them feel bad. To clarify, there is zero relation between OP's school and making sure 0Ls understand this is atypical.
3. A blunt person does not beat around the bush, but does not attack someone personally. A rude person uses sarcasm to mock another person and degrade them.

When you have a good cause (and you folks do), it is critical to come across not just as logically right, but ethically right. When you act rude and childish, you lose the sympathy of anyone reading the thread. Most people don't want to sort out the asshattery from the idea being espoused.

Have a good night.

timbs4339
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby timbs4339 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 3:54 pm

Scotusnerd wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:To some people, any criticism of any law school is rudeness or bullying if it makes someone feel bad. How many times have we heard the effect of "telling someone to retake or don't go is insulting and elitist?"

Whether it's effective to be so blunt is a different story.



We can argue this forever, but I'll just say this: these posts were not blunt, they were rude.

1. A blunt person says "Interesting post, but this isn't a good idea and here's why." A rude person says "This post sucks because ___"
2. A blunt person tells someone their post is unhelpful. A rude (and bullying) person figures out where the person is and outing their school for no reason other than to make them feel bad. To clarify, there is zero relation between OP's school and making sure 0Ls understand this is atypical.
3. A blunt person does not beat around the bush, but does not attack someone personally. A rude person uses sarcasm to mock another person and degrade them.

When you have a good cause (and you folks do), it is critical to come across not just as logically right, but ethically right. When you act rude and childish, you lose the sympathy of anyone reading the thread. Most people don't want to sort out the asshattery from the idea being espoused.

Have a good night.


Well good to know we have the supreme arbiter of blunt and rude posting on TLS!

I'll let you figure out if that was rude or blunt.

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jk148706
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby jk148706 » Mon Aug 19, 2013 4:11 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Well good to know we have the supreme arbiter of blunt and rude posting on TLS!

I'll let you figure out if that was rude or blunt.


Lulzz

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sinfiery
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby sinfiery » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:00 pm

I do like that this thread provided some anecdotal evidence suggesting that those small firm private practice jobs actually do pay 60-80k. That is a very reasonable salary and if you are able to get this from a sensibly priced LS in a low COL area, it would be worth attending.

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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:29 pm

sinfiery wrote:I do like that this thread provided some anecdotal evidence suggesting that those small firm private practice jobs actually do pay 60-80k. That is a very reasonable salary and if you are able to get this from a sensibly priced LS in a low COL area, it would be worth attending.

Maybe I overlooked that info somewhere in here, but OP has a government job.

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IAFG
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Re: Success Coming out of a TTT/TTTT

Postby IAFG » Mon Aug 19, 2013 5:32 pm

I <3 tone trolls.




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