Boston College or Brooklyn Law

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Einstein91
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:06 pm

Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Einstein91 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:13 pm

I was awarded a $45k renewable scholarship to Brooklyn Law, and as long as I remain in the top 80%, I can keep it. After working the numbers, including housing and interest, I'll probably be in a total of $80k or so worth of debt after graduation. Recently, however, I decided to turn down Fordham Law at full sticker price after coming off of the waitlist - debt would have been around $250k. I think I would like to get into soft IP and definitely would like big law or even in house if possible. I recognize this is a tough endeavor coming out of BLS regardless, and there were no guarantees with Fordham, so I decided to take the money and run with it.

I had applied to BC law on a whim and got in late last week off of the wait list. I haven't heard back yet, but they said it is possible to receive merit based need from them, which I was a little surprised to hear. If anything, maybe I'd get 5k or so per year. Having said that, the tuition and cost of living at BC is less than Brooklyn's and it's a better ranked school than even Fordham. However, being from NY, I would prefer to practice in NYC too.

Should I just stick with BLS and if I do well my 1L consider transferring into a T-14 (if possible) or should I seriously consider making the quick move to Boston?

Thanks!

- University of Michigan undergrad, 3.86 gpa, 158 lsat.

FYI, I will not be retaking the LSAT at this point.

lukertin
Posts: 775
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 7:16 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby lukertin » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:20 pm

FYI, I will not be retaking the LSAT at this point.

Why? Retake it.

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:24 pm

Shame to waste that GPA on a 158 LSAT, and shame to spend $80K to go to BLS if you want biglaw/soft IP. Retake or don't go IMO. None of your options sound good.

User avatar
nickb285
Posts: 1500
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby nickb285 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:25 pm

Einstein91 wrote:Should I just stick with BLS and if I do well my 1L consider transferring into a T-14 (if possible)


No. Never, ever, ever go to a school you wouldn't be happy graduating from; transferring is extremely difficult (as in, you have to be among the top 5-10 percent, sometimes even the top 5-10 people, in your class to even have a shot at it), and BLS gives you less than a 50% chance of getting any long term, full time legal job, and less than a 10% chance at biglaw. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... =employers

or should I seriously consider making the quick move to Boston?


No. BC isn't a bad school IF you want to work in Boston and you get a significant scholarship. Neither of those are true for you and therefore it is a bad choice.

FYI, I will not be retaking the LSAT at this point.


Is that because you're lazy, impatient, believe yourself to be a special snowflake who will do better than everyone else at law school despite not doing very well on the LSAT and not having the dedication to retake, or some combination of the three?

Einstein91
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:06 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Einstein91 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:36 pm

Has nothing to do with being lazy. I am not a great standardized test taker to begin with and I just felt that although not the best score in the world, I wasn't all too confident in myself to do that much better. My question was BC vs Brooklyn. That's all I require an answer for. If the possibility arises for me to transfer, then maybe I'd consider it. But the practically debt free option at BLS is enticing regardless of it's job prospects.


nickb285 wrote:
Einstein91 wrote:Should I just stick with BLS and if I do well my 1L consider transferring into a T-14 (if possible)


No. Never, ever, ever go to a school you wouldn't be happy graduating from; transferring is extremely difficult (as in, you have to be among the top 5-10 percent, sometimes even the top 5-10 people, in your class to even have a shot at it), and BLS gives you less than a 50% chance of getting any long term, full time legal job, and less than a 10% chance at biglaw. http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... =employers

or should I seriously consider making the quick move to Boston?


No. BC isn't a bad school IF you want to work in Boston and you get a significant scholarship. Neither of those are true for you and therefore it is a bad choice.

FYI, I will not be retaking the LSAT at this point.


Is that because you're lazy, impatient, believe yourself to be a special snowflake who will do better than everyone else at law school despite not doing very well on the LSAT and not having the dedication to retake, or some combination of the three?

Backload
Posts: 25
Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2013 2:10 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Backload » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:41 pm

[quote="Einstein91"]Has nothing to do with being lazy. I am not a great standardized test taker to begin with and I just felt that although not the best score in the world, I wasn't all too confident in myself to do that much better. My question was BC vs Brooklyn. That's all I require an answer for. If the possibility arises for me to transfer, then maybe I'd consider it. But the practically debt free option at BLS is enticing regardless of it's job prospects.


80K is not debt free bro

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:43 pm

Einstein91 wrote:Has nothing to do with being lazy. I am not a great standardized test taker to begin with and I just felt that although not the best score in the world, I wasn't all too confident in myself to do that much better. My question was BC vs Brooklyn. That's all I require an answer for. If the possibility arises for me to transfer, then maybe I'd consider it. But the practically debt free option at BLS is enticing regardless of it's job prospects.



Ok hang on, you do not sound mature enough to go to law school based on this post. "I'm just not a great standardized test taker" -- and are you going to have a similar excuse when you also perform poorly on time-crunched first year law school exams? Man/Woman up and put some hard work into raising your score -- if you can get a 3.83 at U. Mich (assuming it's not in sculpture or something) you are smart enough to do better than a 158 with some work.

"practically debt free option at BLS" -- dude, $80K in debt is not "practically debt free" -- that's like $500-1000 a month in payments for your foreseeable future.

You said you want an answer, my answer is NEITHER. Do not do either of these things.

Einstein91
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:06 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Einstein91 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:51 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
Einstein91 wrote:Has nothing to do with being lazy. I am not a great standardized test taker to begin with and I just felt that although not the best score in the world, I wasn't all too confident in myself to do that much better. My question was BC vs Brooklyn. That's all I require an answer for. If the possibility arises for me to transfer, then maybe I'd consider it. But the practically debt free option at BLS is enticing regardless of it's job prospects.



Ok hang on, you do not sound mature enough to go to law school based on this post. "I'm just not a great standardized test taker" -- and are you going to have a similar excuse when you also perform poorly on time-crunched first year law school exams? Man/Woman up and put some hard work into raising your score -- if you can get a 3.83 at U. Mich (assuming it's not in sculpture or something) you are smart enough to do better than a 158 with some work.

"practically debt free option at BLS" -- dude, $80K in debt is not "practically debt free" -- that's like $500-1000 a month in payments for your foreseeable future.

You said you want an answer, my answer is NEITHER. Do not do either of these things.




I appreciate your honesty, and I can handle constructive criticism well. I didn't mean for that to come off as an excuse, but after a long internal debate, I decided that I would not be pursuing that option (retaking). I was able to get into every school I had applied to. Only Fordham and BC (so far) had not offered me any money. I have an extremely good work ethic and although I realize law school is a different ballgame entirely, I am up for the challenge. The reason as to why I am considering BLS regardless of it's job placement statistics, is because I think it is the most economically responsible option I have. And no 80k is not debt free, I think it is a very manageable amount of debt especially in comparison to the 250k I would been in had I decided to go to Fordham (my dream school) with better job prospects. Again, I appreciate the advice and pep talk, but I have decided long ago not to retake. Given what I provided you with, right now it's between BLS OR BC (pending some scholarship money).

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:56 pm

Einstein91 wrote:
I appreciate your honesty, and I can handle constructive criticism well. I didn't mean for that to come off as an excuse, but after a long internal debate, I decided that I would not be pursuing that option (retaking). I was able to get into every school I had applied to. Only Fordham and BC (so far) had not offered me any money. I have an extremely good work ethic and although I realize law school is a different ballgame entirely, I am up for the challenge. The reason as to why I am considering BLS regardless of it's job placement statistics, is because I think it is the most economically responsible option I have. And no 80k is not debt free, I think it is a very manageable amount of debt especially in comparison to the 250k I would been in had I decided to go to Fordham (my dream school) with better job prospects. Again, I appreciate the advice and pep talk, but I have decided long ago not to retake. Given what I provided you with, right now it's between BLS OR BC (pending some scholarship money).


I don't understand what your "internal debate" consisted of, but you clearly have not thought this through as well as you think you have. What do you imagine you're going to be doing after law school? You have about a 5% chance at best to get biglaw, let alone "soft IP" coming from BLS. What's most likely going to happen is you're going to graduate without a job, spend six to nine months looking, and then finally find some small firm or govt job paying $30-60K. Are you prepared to pay NYC rents (let's say $1200-1500 to live with roommates, much more for your own place) plus a loan payment between $500-1000 on that salary? Have you actually run the numbers? How is it "manageable"? Saying it doesn't make it so.

User avatar
mindarmed
Posts: 959
Joined: Sun May 27, 2012 2:16 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby mindarmed » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:58 pm

dont go to either of these, retake with your 3.86 gpa

Golden Bear 11
Posts: 169
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 1:21 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Golden Bear 11 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:58 pm

No, the most economically responsible option you have is to RETAKE. Please retake. You cannot pay off $80K if you have no job.

che3055
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 3:45 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby che3055 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:01 pm


blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:03 pm

EDIT: whoops, misread that thread

Paul Campos
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:44 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Paul Campos » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:09 pm

Your debt figure for BLS seems way too low. You're estimating Fordham at $250K at sticker, and about $155K-$160K of that would be tuition. But you'll be paying about $35K in tuition at BLS. Now you'll rack up less interest at BLS, but even so your figures come out to around $115K for BLS, assuming roughly the same COL as Fordham.

User avatar
Otunga
Posts: 1317
Joined: Fri Mar 15, 2013 7:56 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Otunga » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:13 pm

Einstein91 wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
Einstein91 wrote:Has nothing to do with being lazy. I am not a great standardized test taker to begin with and I just felt that although not the best score in the world, I wasn't all too confident in myself to do that much better. My question was BC vs Brooklyn. That's all I require an answer for. If the possibility arises for me to transfer, then maybe I'd consider it. But the practically debt free option at BLS is enticing regardless of it's job prospects.



Ok hang on, you do not sound mature enough to go to law school based on this post. "I'm just not a great standardized test taker" -- and are you going to have a similar excuse when you also perform poorly on time-crunched first year law school exams? Man/Woman up and put some hard work into raising your score -- if you can get a 3.83 at U. Mich (assuming it's not in sculpture or something) you are smart enough to do better than a 158 with some work.

"practically debt free option at BLS" -- dude, $80K in debt is not "practically debt free" -- that's like $500-1000 a month in payments for your foreseeable future.

You said you want an answer, my answer is NEITHER. Do not do either of these things.


I appreciate your honesty, and I can handle constructive criticism well. I didn't mean for that to come off as an excuse, but after a long internal debate, I decided that I would not be pursuing that option (retaking). I was able to get into every school I had applied to. Only Fordham and BC (so far) had not offered me any money. I have an extremely good work ethic and although I realize law school is a different ballgame entirely, I am up for the challenge. The reason as to why I am considering BLS regardless of it's job placement statistics, is because I think it is the most economically responsible option I have. And no 80k is not debt free, I think it is a very manageable amount of debt especially in comparison to the 250k I would been in had I decided to go to Fordham (my dream school) with better job prospects. Again, I appreciate the advice and pep talk, but I have decided long ago not to retake. Given what I provided you with, right now it's between BLS OR BC (pending some scholarship money).


Most people get into law school these days. In fact, even people with sub 150s scores are getting in, so it's not an accomplishment on its face. Yes, you got into decently ranked schools, but given your aspirations, you ought to retake. I'm not saying you must go to HYS, but you could just aim for 168 or so and attend Cornell if that sounds more feasible.

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:23 pm

Paul Campos wrote:But you'll be paying about $35K in tuition at BLS. Now you'll rack up less interest at BLS, but even so your figures come out to around $115K for BLS, assuming roughly the same COL as Fordham.


He said he has a $45k/yr scholarship. Is BLS $80k a year now? EDIT: or did you mean $35K/year with cost of living.

User avatar
nickb285
Posts: 1500
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby nickb285 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:29 pm

Einstein91 wrote:I appreciate your honesty, and I can handle constructive criticism well. I didn't mean for that to come off as an excuse, but after a long internal debate, I decided that I would not be pursuing that option (retaking). I was able to get into every school I had applied to.


Because you only applied to schools that are not going to get you the career you want.

I have an extremely good work ethic and although I realize law school is a different ballgame entirely, I am up for the challenge.


If this were true, you'd have enough work ethic to be up for the challenge of studying for the LSAT and not going until you can get into a school that will get you the job you're looking for.

The reason as to why I am considering BLS regardless of it's job placement statistics, is because I think it is the most economically responsible option I have.


False. The most economically responsible option you have is to get into the LSAT forum, take a prep class, switch up your study habits, and don't retake until you're PTing at least high 160s.

And no 80k is not debt free, I think it is a very manageable amount of debt especially in comparison to the 250k I would been in had I decided to go to Fordham (my dream school) with better job prospects.


This is like saying that it's better to put $80,000 on black and spin the wheel than it is to put $250,000 on black and spin the wheel. Technically you're correct, but that doesn't mean that either one is a good idea.

Einstein91
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jul 30, 2013 12:06 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Einstein91 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:29 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:But you'll be paying about $35K in tuition at BLS. Now you'll rack up less interest at BLS, but even so your figures come out to around $115K for BLS, assuming roughly the same COL as Fordham.


He said he has a $45k/yr scholarship. Is BLS $80k a year now?


It's going to cost me about $7k/yr in tuition. Obviously, housing is expensive in nyc albeit a little cheaper in Brooklyn. Housing is about 20k per year but I plan on living with a roommate/friend in manhattan for 2L and 3L. Regardless, total debt should probably come to around $80k. And like I said, you guys can be as harsh as you want to be I won't be offended and appreciate the honesty. I'm not blind here and I think that BLS' numbers really scared me initially. I worked really hard at Michigan and although my LSAT score is not ideal, I'm not going to let that stop me from doing my best to make connections and hopefully pull something out. BLS has a great, long standing relationship with many firms in NYC (probably even better than Cardozo pending who you ask) and although nationally it took a big dip, I still think given the state of the market, taking this scholarship would obviously help me in the long run.

Having said all that, is going to BC with some money not viable at all? Although not in NY, it's a better school than Fordham and I'm just happy to have been accepted given my sub-par score.

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:33 pm

Einstein91 wrote:
blsingindisguise wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:But you'll be paying about $35K in tuition at BLS. Now you'll rack up less interest at BLS, but even so your figures come out to around $115K for BLS, assuming roughly the same COL as Fordham.


He said he has a $45k/yr scholarship. Is BLS $80k a year now?


It's going to cost me about $7k/yr in tuition. Obviously, housing is expensive in nyc albeit a little cheaper in Brooklyn. Housing is about 20k per year but I plan on living with a roommate/friend in manhattan for 2L and 3L. Regardless, total debt should probably come to around $80k. And like I said, you guys can be as harsh as you want to be I won't be offended and appreciate the honesty. I'm not blind here and I think that BLS' numbers really scared me initially. I worked really hard at Michigan and although my LSAT score is not ideal, I'm not going to let that stop me from doing my best to make connections and hopefully pull something out. BLS has a great, long standing relationship with many firms in NYC (probably even better than Cardozo pending who you ask) and although nationally it took a big dip, I still think given the state of the market, taking this scholarship would obviously help me in the long run.

Having said all that, is going to BC with some money not viable at all? Although not in NY, it's a better school than Fordham and I'm just happy to have been accepted given my sub-par score.



Well, I think you're being stupid and childish, frankly. But drop by in a year and let us know how it worked out. Will gladly buy you a beer if you actually somehow pull out a biglaw summer associate position after 1L.

User avatar
nickb285
Posts: 1500
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby nickb285 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:36 pm

Einstein91 wrote:I worked really hard at Michigan and although my LSAT score is not ideal, I'm not going to let that stop me from doing my best to make connections and hopefully pull something out.


Image

BLS has a great, long standing relationship with many firms in NYC (probably even better than Cardozo pending who you ask) and although nationally it took a big dip, I still think given the state of the market, taking this scholarship would obviously help me in the long run.


"Who cares about the actual data that says less than half of its graduates are working as attorneys? It's got relationships or networks or some other thing that somehow means I'll get a job!"

Having said all that, is going to BC with some money not viable at all? Although not in NY, it's a better school than Fordham and I'm just happy to have been accepted given my sub-par score.


As I said above, going to BC with money is a good choice if 1. The money is significant and 2. You want to work in Boston. Neither of those are true for you. Rankings are meaningless outside of the T14.

You can make all the special snowflake arguments you want. Nobody here is going to tell you anything other than what they already have, because everyone here is objectively trying to help despite your impulsive behavior.

User avatar
superbloom
Posts: 160
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2011 4:49 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby superbloom » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:37 pm

I've seen too many people in retake denial

Full Ride to Crappy school or Sticker to mediocre school?
What are your numbers?

Really high GPA, really low LSAT
Retake or don't go

Not an option
Why? Already took the LSAT three times?

No, I'm just a poor test taker
Do you realize that taking long tests is what you'll be doing for the next three years? Followed by the mother of all long standardized tests?

I'm just going to try really hard because I'm a special snowflake and I'll prove you all wrong and transfer to T-14.
Leave thread
Last edited by superbloom on Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

lawrence1917
Posts: 17
Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2013 2:07 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby lawrence1917 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:38 pm

Reconsider Fordham. Job prospects out of BL are truly atrocious. I've heard straight from hiring partners at a biglaw firm that they won't even consider students out of BL unless they are in the top 2-5% of the class. The top quarter (roughly) at Fordham gets biglaw, and the top 10-15% is in very good shape. You don't want to graduate from BL with any debt. Too risky.

That or retake.

User avatar
nickb285
Posts: 1500
Joined: Mon Jul 16, 2012 4:25 pm

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby nickb285 » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:39 pm

lawrence1917 wrote:Reconsider Fordham. Job prospects out of BL are truly atrocious. I've heard straight from hiring partners at a biglaw firm that they won't even consider students out of BL unless they are in the top 2-5% of the class. The top quarter (roughly) at Fordham gets biglaw, and the top 10-15% is in very good shape. You don't want to graduate from BL with any debt. Too risky.

That or
retake.


FTFY

blsingindisguise
Posts: 1296
Joined: Thu Nov 26, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby blsingindisguise » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:41 pm

lawrence1917 wrote:Reconsider Fordham. Job prospects out of BL are truly atrocious. I've heard straight from hiring partners at a biglaw firm that they won't even consider students out of BL unless they are in the top 2-5% of the class. The top quarter (roughly) at Fordham gets biglaw, and the top 10-15% is in very good shape. You don't want to graduate from BL with any debt. Too risky.

That or retake.


I pretty much agree with what you say about BLS, but why consider Fordham at $250K either (assuming he gets in off the WAITLIST, btw, which is a big if)? Even if he gets biglaw, he could be looking at $3000/month loan payments for the next ten years (longer by far than he will last in biglaw). Is a 1/4 shot at biglaw worth the cost of a house?

Paul Campos
Posts: 645
Joined: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:44 am

Re: Boston College or Brooklyn Law

Postby Paul Campos » Tue Jul 30, 2013 1:45 pm

blsingindisguise wrote:
Paul Campos wrote:But you'll be paying about $35K in tuition at BLS. Now you'll rack up less interest at BLS, but even so your figures come out to around $115K for BLS, assuming roughly the same COL as Fordham.


He said he has a $45k/yr scholarship. Is BLS $80k a year now? EDIT: or did you mean $35K/year with cost of living.


Sticker tuition this year at BLS is $54,230. (They jacked it by 9% this year). If you assume 4% hikes the next two years you're looking at around $35K total tuition for three years, assuming a $45K per year discount off sticker. So just on tuition alone the OP is low-balling his/her costs by about $15K not counting interest.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MikkelVilla, mtf612, tangers91 and 3 guests