ASU for 26 or Vandy for 32? Forum

[grassynome]

Not sure what I want to do after law school want to have options.... Ideas?

[Ti Malice]

Please follow the instructions in the thread tacked to the top: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299.

We don't know if you're giving us total cost of attendance per year, tuition figures, or something else. In any case, we need much more information to give you useful advice.

[hephaestus]

If these are just tuition figures per year, I think both are more expensive. But definitely elaborate as Ti Malice said.

[sinfiery]

Please follow the instructions in the thread tacked to the top: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299.

We don't know if you're giving us total cost of attendance per year, tuition figures, or something else. In any case, we need much more information to give you useful advice.

This



Might be a new low in how much important information one can decipher from the OP. Congratulations, this is a rarity.

[grassynome]

My bad guys, I was at work and trying to post in a hurry. Those were tuition figures. I just got in off the waitlist at Vandy today and have until Monday to decide. I do not know what type of law, or where I want to practice. However, I would like to have opportunities available to me by the time I graduate.

[sinfiery]

Given your uncertainty, Unless you are sure you want to practice law in Arizona, you should attend Vandy at these prices or retake the LSAT and reapply to receive more scholarship money or attempt to be admitted into a higher ranked university.

Generally speaking, the better the university, the better dividends it pays for a student who is not sure what it is they exactly want to do with their law degree/where they want to do it.


What is your LSAC GPA? What is your LSAT? How many times did you take the test? How did you study?

Vandy may well be a great option for you but it depends completely upon what your potential as an applicant is, which is tied very heavily with what exactly your LSAT/GPA are.

[grassynome]

Given your uncertainty, Unless you are sure you want to practice law in Arizona, you should attend Vandy at these prices or retake the LSAT and reapply to receive more scholarship money or attempt to be admitted into a higher ranked university.

Generally speaking, the better the university, the better dividends it pays for a student who is not sure what it is they exactly want to do with their law degree/where they want to do it.


What is your LSAC GPA? What is your LSAT? How many times did you take the test? How did you study?

Vandy may well be a great option for you but it depends completely upon what your potential as an applicant is, which is tied very heavily with what exactly your LSAT/GPA are.

My GPA was a 3.95 and I took the LSAT 3 times with a 158 being my highest. I was testing in the mid 160s but never could put it all together on the test day. I took the Princeton Review course 3 times (under their gurantee). I am going to law school in the fall, so retaking is not an option hahaha

[sublime]

..

[sinfiery]

My GPA was a 3.95 and I took the LSAT 3 times with a 158 being my highest. I was testing in the mid 160s but never could put it all together on the test day. I took the Princeton Review course 3 times (under their gurantee). I am going to law school in the fall, so retaking is not an option hahaha

Oh man.

Vandy at that price would definitely be your best option if you are attending in the fall with the caveat that you should feel comfortable working in the south or not attend.


Most people on here will tell you to retake (and you probably should) but since you've given it a solid effort, I won't bother you with something you've obviously already thoroughly explored. I will say that there are many people who do make a breakthrough on their fourth take after three less than expected attempts and have had great cycles. Knowing that you have the ability to score in the mid-160s given your PTs, if you can get it together on test day, you would likely have significantly better options and this route may even give you time to figure out exactly what/where you want to practice law before being in a solid $200k-230k in debt.


Goodluck this fall!

[Ti Malice]

Princeton Review is not as bad as Kaplan, but it still sucks. You really should study methods from one of the good companies and retake rather than waste that 3.95. You're literally throwing away, at a minimum, many tens of thousands of dollars by not not doing everything you reasonably can to get a better LSAT (which you haven't done).

Your total COA at ASU is completely unjustifiable for its employment placement. Taking on that level of debt for a non-T14 in Vandy is also a really bad idea. The added concern with Vandy is that it places best in mostly insular Southern secondary markets for which preexisting ties are important. Just showing up in the South with no ties to rack up ~$215K of non-dischargeable debt at repayment at Vandy is a horrible idea. Not quite as insanely bad as racking up ~$175K of debt at repayment at ASU, but still horrible.

Why did you decline the U of Arizona offer? It wasn't good, but it was much better than your ASU offer. If I understand it correctly, UA was offering you $54K in total as a resident, which would leave you with ~$110K of debt at repayment (still very bad, but not likely ruinous, unlike the two above options). Why on earth would you turn that down for ASU? Between these two, UA is a better choice even at equal cost. Please don't tell me you fell for ASU's ridiculous gaming of the USNWR rankings. The rankings changes are artificial, immaterial nonsense and have exactly zero impact on how employers in Arizona (or anywhere else) view the two law schools.

edit: multiple typos

[hephaestus]

I think I'd go to Vanderbilt. That's a lot of money though. Do you have ties to anywhere in the south?

[mr.hands]

What scholarships have they given you? 50k at Vandy seems a bit high

[untar614]

Don't go with a sub-160 score. I'm not gonna be one of those people who acts like anyone should be able to get mid-170s, but anyone who should have any chance of success should at least have the skills it takes to break the 160s. Check the LSAT prep section, take some time off to do something interesting and figure out what it is you actually want to do before you take on massive debt for law school. Nashville's not that expensive, but after CoL and interest, you're graduating with over $150k in debt and around a 1 in 3 shot at a job that can actually pay off that debt.

[TheThriller]

Vandy for 32k total or 32k a year?

[mr.hands]

Vandy for 32k total or 32k a year?

OP has a 158. I'm sure it's per year

[Motivator9]

Vandy for 32k total or 32k a year?

OP has a 158. I'm sure it's per year

Still, 32 per year with those numbers is a good deal at Vandy, if OP isn't taking the LSAT again.

[ManoftheHour]

You got in Vandy with a 158?

Honestly, if I were you, I might just take it if the LSAT isn't your forte.

[TheThriller]

Vandy either has it's class set and has a few spots to take applicants they want or they need the 3.9+ and are set with their LSAT median.

Either way congratulations, although 32k per year is easily 100K+ in tuition alone not to mention living expenses and stuff. COA would put debt 150k+ which is too much for Vandy.

[mr.hands]

Vandy either has it's class set and has a few spots to take applicants they want or they need the 3.9+ and are set with their LSAT median.

Either way congratulations, although 32k per year is easily 100K+ in tuition alone not to mention living expenses and stuff. COA would put debt 150k+ which is too much for Vandy.

Yeah that's why I asked about what his scholarship was. I have a hard time imagining that he got 75k+

[BigZuck]

Please follow the instructions in the thread tacked to the top: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1&t=206299.

We don't know if you're giving us total cost of attendance per year, tuition figures, or something else. In any case, we need much more information to give you useful advice.

OP needs to do all of this. OP also needs to retake.

[Informative]

That price difference is all that much. I would go with Vandy. It has much better placement stats in biglaw if that is something you are interested in. If no, the cost isn't so great that you will be barred from doing something else.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... ctive=true

[TheThriller]

That price difference is all that much. I would go with Vandy. It has much better placement stats in biglaw if that is something you are interested in. If no, the cost isn't so great that you will be barred from doing something else.

http://www.law.com/jsp/nlj/PubArticleNL ... ctive=true

are you kidding me? 150k is a cost that will bar you from doing a lot for 15+ years if you miss out on biglaw

and get that trash rankings out of here.

[StillIll]

Princeton Review is not as bad as Kaplan, but it still sucks. You really should study methods from one of the good companies and retake rather than waste that 3.95. You're literally throwing away, at a minimum, many tens of thousands of dollars by not not doing everything you reasonably can to get a better LSAT (which you haven't done).

Your total COA at ASU is completely unjustifiable for its employment placement. Taking on that level of debt for a non-T14 in Vandy is also a really bad idea. The added concern with Vandy is that it places best in mostly insular Southern secondary markets for which preexisting ties are important. Just showing up in the South with no ties to rack up well over ~$215K of non-dischargeable debt at repayment at Vandy is a horrible idea. Not quite as insanely bad as racking up ~$175K of debt at repayment at ASU, but still horrible.

Why did you decline the U of Arizona offer? It wasn't good, but it was much better than your ASU offer. If I understand it correctly, UA was offering you $54K in total as a resident, which would leave you with ~$110K of debt at repayment (still very bad, but not likely ruinous, unlike the two above options). Why on earth would you turn that down for ASU? Between these two, UA is a better choice even at equal cost. Please don't tell me you fell for ASU's ridiculous gaming of the USNWR rankings. The rankings changes are artificial, immaterial nonsense and have exactly zero impact on how employers in Arizona (or anywhere else) view the two law schools.

Everyone here talks smack on Kaplan, but I went from a 160 diagnostic to a 176 actual test using only the Kaplan class and personal study (with Kaplan materials). I had a great teacher... it really just depends on yourself (do you have a natural intuitive feel for LSAT questions) and your teacher.


I'm not sure what OP should do. Clearly a smart guy (based off GPA) with unfortunate LSAT results. Isn't 3 times the cap on how many LSATs you can take in an amount of time? ... how long until he could retake again?

COA aside (obviously one of if not the most important factors, nonetheless), I went to the Vandy admitted students day (weekend?) and was very, very impressed with everything down there. And I'm from the four corners area... not a southern guy at all. There are worse places to go to school, and the students and people there were extremely nice and cool... good people. So on the soft factor of quality of life (again, debt aside) I can at least give a positive notch in Vandy's direction.

[Doorkeeper]

Vandy if you want to work in the South, or retake are the only good options here.

Does 32 include your cost of living? If not, then Vandy is probably too expensive and you should retake the LSAT.

[Motivator9]

Even if he scores 5 points higher on his LSAT, Vandy will probably give him the same amount of money, based on similar numbers of past applicants. In fact, if even if you bumped his lsat to a 165, I still don't think you would get anything besides sticker price at a t14, considering you've already taken the lsat 3 times. Vandy looks like the right call here.

http://mylsn.info/dmk6f5