NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

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Cobretti
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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby Cobretti » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:31 am

they don't want students to pay for it, or they don't want their shady compensation plans affected by it?

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:44 am

The odds that the motives are pure here are approximately -3%.

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Postby Another » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:59 am

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Last edited by Another on Fri Nov 29, 2013 5:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.

dixiecupdrinking
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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Thu Jul 18, 2013 10:47 pm

This is university-wide faculty, not law faculty.

The profs who are on the non-professional school faculties are getting nearly as fucked as the students are these days.

I assume Stern profs get paid with wheelbarrows of cash like the law faculty do, but outside of that and maybe a few high profile old guys in the philosophy department and stuff, they're all getting railroaded.

Seems like an undergrad degree at NYU probably means getting taught by a rotating cast of indentured servant adjuncts.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby Doorkeeper » Fri Jul 19, 2013 11:53 pm

NYU has an extremely trifurcated faculty. At the high end are the superstars in the college, law faculty, and business faculty. They get huge salaries, great perks, and are loyal to Sexton. In the middle are the tenured/tenure track faculty that aren't especially noteworthy. They get paid decently, but nothing special, and have high teaching loads. At the bottom is the army of non-tenure track lecturers that get treated like absolute shit. It's from the latter two categories that this is coming from.

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banjo
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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby banjo » Sun Jul 21, 2013 9:54 am

Columbia faced similar or worse opposition during the Manhattanville expansion (125th-133rd or so, on the western edge of Manhattan). Fordham is expanding amidst controversy too. Real estate in NYC can be a very touchy subject. I wouldn't read too much into it.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 11:28 am

banjo wrote:Columbia faced similar or worse opposition during the Manhattanville expansion (125th-133rd or so, on the western edge of Manhattan). Fordham is expanding amidst controversy too. Real estate in NYC can be a very touchy subject. I wouldn't read too much into it.


IIRC, the opposition to the Columbia project was more of the traditional opposition to gentrification coupled with historically high tensions between the school and the neighborhood residents.

This is different because it acknowledges that the expansion will fall on the backs of students, as previous efforts to make NYU a "world-class educational institution" ultimately did. Maybe they are using the student debt issue just to drum up support, but maybe its finally time for NYU to confront the cost of its 30 year spending binge.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:20 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
banjo wrote:Columbia faced similar or worse opposition during the Manhattanville expansion (125th-133rd or so, on the western edge of Manhattan). Fordham is expanding amidst controversy too. Real estate in NYC can be a very touchy subject. I wouldn't read too much into it.


IIRC, the opposition to the Columbia project was more of the traditional opposition to gentrification coupled with historically high tensions between the school and the neighborhood residents.

This is different because it acknowledges that the expansion will fall on the backs of students, as previous efforts to make NYU a "world-class educational institution" ultimately did. Maybe they are using the student debt issue just to drum up support, but maybe its finally time for NYU to confront the cost of its 30 year spending binge.

I don't really understand how the expansion necessarily has anything to do with student debt. And the linked article makes just one reference to loans. It's not about debt.

This just part of an ongoing power struggle at NYU between the academics, who think they've been marginalized and NYU has become too corporate, and Sexton and his supporters, whose strategic vision for the school centers on spending a lot of money on global expansion and branding. For what it's worth, I'm more on the faculty's side, but let's be honest, they're just looking out for themselves. They want more control and more money; that's it.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 12:55 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:
banjo wrote:Columbia faced similar or worse opposition during the Manhattanville expansion (125th-133rd or so, on the western edge of Manhattan). Fordham is expanding amidst controversy too. Real estate in NYC can be a very touchy subject. I wouldn't read too much into it.


IIRC, the opposition to the Columbia project was more of the traditional opposition to gentrification coupled with historically high tensions between the school and the neighborhood residents.

This is different because it acknowledges that the expansion will fall on the backs of students, as previous efforts to make NYU a "world-class educational institution" ultimately did. Maybe they are using the student debt issue just to drum up support, but maybe its finally time for NYU to confront the cost of its 30 year spending binge.

I don't really understand how the expansion necessarily has anything to do with student debt. And the linked article makes just one reference to loans. It's not about debt.

This just part of an ongoing power struggle at NYU between the academics, who think they've been marginalized and NYU has become too corporate, and Sexton and his supporters, whose strategic vision for the school centers on spending a lot of money on global expansion and branding. For what it's worth, I'm more on the faculty's side, but let's be honest, they're just looking out for themselves. They want more control and more money; that's it.


When you build a crapload of new buildings and facilities, you have to staff them and keep the lights on. That usually costs money, money that is not budgeted for in the project's initial financing through alumni giving (alumni want the John Q. Richguy Law Building, not the John Q. Richguy janitorial department). A university might also pursue a large real estate expansion through bond financing, the interest payments being made through a school's main revenue source. Either way, the cost is passed onto students.

http://nyufasp.com/2013/07/martin-lipto ... rd-at-nyu/

They mention student debt a few times in this bizarre rambling letter. You're right that they are probably only using the student debt issue to rally support for their own internal power struggle, while obviously enjoying the many perks debt has brought them over the years. Ultimately, I would hope that NYU can serve as a lesson about how sometimes it's best to just be a cheap school for working-class kids, not some sort of multi-national megacorporation.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby dixiecupdrinking » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:06 pm

timbs4339 wrote:When you build a crapload of new buildings and facilities, you have to staff them and keep the lights on. That usually costs money, money that is not budgeted for in the project's initial financing through alumni giving (alumni want the John Q. Richguy Law Building, not the John Q. Richguy janitorial department). A university might also pursue a large real estate expansion through bond financing, the interest payments being made through a school's main revenue source. Either way, the cost is passed onto students.

http://nyufasp.com/2013/07/martin-lipto ... rd-at-nyu/

They mention student debt a few times in this bizarre rambling letter. You're right that they are probably only using the student debt issue to rally support for their own internal power struggle, while obviously enjoying the many perks debt has brought them over the years. Ultimately, I would hope that NYU can serve as a lesson about how sometimes it's best to just be a cheap school for working-class kids, not some sort of multi-national megacorporation.

I agree. I also think that NYU could have become a nationally prominent university by riding the wave of NYC's popularity and slowly improving their academics and their financial aid. Instead, they chose to play some weird international real estate game. I don't really get what the long view is, but it seems to have little to do with what the core missions of a university ought to be.

It's a weird behemoth of an institution that has a handful of truly excellent programs. Though I have my complaints like about anything, the law school was well run, overall, and no more predatory or cynical than any other law school.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby dr123 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:30 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:This is university-wide faculty, not law faculty.

The profs who are on the non-professional school faculties are getting nearly as fucked as the students are these days.

I assume Stern profs get paid with wheelbarrows of cash like the law faculty do, but outside of that and maybe a few high profile old guys in the philosophy department and stuff, they're all getting railroaded.

Seems like an undergrad degree at NYU probably means getting taught by a rotating cast of indentured servant adjuncts.


LOL, I really doubt that.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 1:31 pm

dixiecupdrinking wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:When you build a crapload of new buildings and facilities, you have to staff them and keep the lights on. That usually costs money, money that is not budgeted for in the project's initial financing through alumni giving (alumni want the John Q. Richguy Law Building, not the John Q. Richguy janitorial department). A university might also pursue a large real estate expansion through bond financing, the interest payments being made through a school's main revenue source. Either way, the cost is passed onto students.

http://nyufasp.com/2013/07/martin-lipto ... rd-at-nyu/

They mention student debt a few times in this bizarre rambling letter. You're right that they are probably only using the student debt issue to rally support for their own internal power struggle, while obviously enjoying the many perks debt has brought them over the years. Ultimately, I would hope that NYU can serve as a lesson about how sometimes it's best to just be a cheap school for working-class kids, not some sort of multi-national megacorporation.

I agree. I also think that NYU could have become a nationally prominent university by riding the wave of NYC's popularity and slowly improving their academics and their financial aid. Instead, they chose to play some weird international real estate game. I don't really get what the long view is, but it seems to have little to do with what the core missions of a university ought to be.

It's a weird behemoth of an institution that has a handful of truly excellent programs. Though I have my complaints like about anything, the law school was well run, overall, and no more predatory or cynical than any other law school.


Yes, the programs are certainly excellent. But I think some of the alumni that are trying to make it into an Ivy by spending ungodly amounts of money have forgotten that they were successful back when the university served a different population. One old grad told me law school tuition in the late 60s was something like $500.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:15 pm

timbs4339 wrote:One old grad told me law school tuition in the late 60s was something like $500.


Probably not that low. I'm guessing in the $2,000 range. The number has probably always been similar to Penn, whose tuition was in that range in the late 60s. You can see archived Penn tuition going back to 1900 here.

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Re: NYU Faculty Oppose Expansion on Back of Debt Ridden Students

Postby timbs4339 » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:50 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:
timbs4339 wrote:One old grad told me law school tuition in the late 60s was something like $500.


Probably not that low. I'm guessing in the $2,000 range. The number has probably always been similar to Penn, whose tuition was in that range in the late 60s. You can see archived Penn tuition going back to 1900 here.


I'm not sure you can make that comparison during that period. Penn was one of the original big 4 law schools- along with HYC. NYU back then was considered a working-class school for blue collar (mostly Jewish) kids from the city, and would not have been in the same price range as the Ivies, more like Suffolk/Northeastern in Boston.

Besides, why would the guy lie about his own tuition?




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