Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Tankeryanker
Posts: 3
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 11:52 am

Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby Tankeryanker » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:53 am

http://www.mcgeorge.edu/News/Dean_Mootz ... School.htm

"Beginning in 2009 we recognized the need to rescale, but we did not anticipate how quickly we would have to act.
We are now transitioning from a total enrollment of 1,000 plus students to approximately 600 students (in two day sections, and one evening section), and so we will require a smaller staff and faculty. "

-Okay, what I don't get in the way the school frames this letter, is that because of no jobs, they are limiting class size as if the know that the 600 students will get jobs.

Shouldn't it read that they are laying people off because applications are dismal and 600 were all that the got?

Can anybody explain this thinking?

User avatar
guano
Posts: 2268
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 9:49 am

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby guano » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:56 am

Positive spin

"We're doing this because we're fucked" doesn't sound as nice as "we're doing this for your sake"

User avatar
Great Satchmo
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:11 pm

Who cares why they are doing it, we should be lauding them for reducing class size at all.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:15 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:Who cares why they are doing it, we should be lauding them for reducing class size at all.


It's certainly better than them not doing anything, but it leaves open the possibility that if applications somehow rebound (even if the job market doesn't), they'll just expand again.

I also just don't see how their current tuition structure is sustainable when salaries are nowhere near what you'd need to pay back the debt.

User avatar
Monochromatic Oeuvre
Posts: 1929
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 9:40 pm

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:19 pm

The same rule applies to McGeorge as all the other overpriced TTTs: If something can't go on forever, it will stop.

User avatar
stillwater
Posts: 3811
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 2:59 pm

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby stillwater » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:23 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:The same rule applies to McGeorge as all the other overpriced TTTs: If something can't go on forever, it will stop.


wouldnt that maxim apply to, well, anything and everything?

User avatar
Great Satchmo
Posts: 754
Joined: Mon May 04, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby Great Satchmo » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:14 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
Great Satchmo wrote:Who cares why they are doing it, we should be lauding them for reducing class size at all.


It's certainly better than them not doing anything, but it leaves open the possibility that if applications somehow rebound (even if the job market doesn't), they'll just expand again.

I also just don't see how their current tuition structure is sustainable when salaries are nowhere near what you'd need to pay back the debt.


Nothing is going to stop any school from growing to meet demand if demand is to be had. And demand is tied to the job market, the reason we're seeing the decrease is because the contraction in legal hiring. Of course there is the distortion added by a federal guarantor being willing to lend to just about anyone for anything, but that affects all education right now to some extent.

Much higher ranked schools are also unable to sustain the tuition structure, but given the fact that federal loans with repayment options such as IBR are out there, demand is more inelastic than you'd expect otherwise.


So, who cares what the press release says, let's just be happy that they're shrinking class size.

timbs4339
Posts: 2733
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:19 pm

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:07 pm

Great Satchmo wrote:Nothing is going to stop any school from growing to meet demand if demand is to be had.


There are several schools that are outliers in terms of tuition and class size. Look at CUNY or most of the state schools in the south and west. Is it really inconceivable to you (like, in any possible universe) that a bunch of nonprofit educators could get together and decide not to raise tuition or class size even if students are willing and able to pay $1 million a year? This isn't what is happening, but the supply/demand rise and fall of legal education could be avoided if legal educators were able to show some restraint and perspective.

And demand is tied to the job market, the reason we're seeing the decrease is because the contraction in legal hiring. Of course there is the distortion added by a federal guarantor being willing to lend to just about anyone for anything, but that affects all education right now to some extent.


The job market was shit at a lot of these schools long before applications started nosediving. It took years of people moaning about employment stats to start the ball rolling. Law schools are unique because Gradplus loans allow them to charge anything they want and the government will pay up to COA.

I'm not even sure these schools are seeing their own markets dry up. What might be happening is that the above average scorers are disproportionately not applying, and the top tier schools keep reaching down into the applicant pool. You can only admit 100% of the people who apply, and several schools are likely close to that number.

Much higher ranked schools are also unable to sustain the tuition structure, but given the fact that federal loans with repayment options such as IBR are out there, demand is more inelastic than you'd expect otherwise.


LOL at most applicants knowing anything about IBR, never mind wanting to go based on the hope of being in "financial hardship" for 20 years.

The only schools that can really sustain $50,000 tuition have large percentage of their class in 160K jobs and PAYE jobs. There are still a few of those left, but ultimately when tuition hits a certain number, or if biglaw bursts, their model will be unsustainable as well.

User avatar
romothesavior
Posts: 14772
Joined: Fri Jun 26, 2009 4:29 pm

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby romothesavior » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:53 pm

The game will be up very soon at many of these law schools.

Ti Malice
Posts: 1955
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2012 2:55 am

Re: Dean Mootz's Letter to Pacific McGeorge State of Law School

Postby Ti Malice » Wed Jul 17, 2013 7:01 pm

romothesavior wrote:The game will be up very soon at many of these law schools.

Can't wait. Burn.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 20171lhopeful and 4 guests