Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

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laddiemort
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Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby laddiemort » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:22 pm

PD/DA gunner here. Based on the predictor and LSN, I have a good shot at most T14s excluding YS and NU (I'm a K-JD) and a chance at Harvard. But I know not to depend on USNWR rankings by themselves since Biglaw is not my goal.

Since I want to do public interest criminal law, I know that trial experience and dedication to public service are essential if I want to get a job. I know that I need to be interning from 1L summer on and taking as many clinics as possible. So my question is, which schools have the best clinics for criminal law and trial advocacy? Which schools have the best PD/DA internship opportunities?

Is it reasonable to consider the rest of the T20 or 30 if I want to work in the region the school is located in?

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sinfiery
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby sinfiery » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:30 pm

I don't know much about this but my first impression is that you should work at the best school in the region you want to work if you truly are 100% committed to this cause

nebula666
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby nebula666 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:39 pm

Where do you want to work?

laddiemort
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby laddiemort » Sun Jul 14, 2013 12:59 pm

I'm from Minnesota and I would be perfectly happy to work here, but I don't necessarily want to lock myself into it. Otherwise I would go to UMN in a heartbeat.

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dr123
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby dr123 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:00 pm

do you want da or pd?

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BruceWayne
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby BruceWayne » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:07 pm

This is easy. Work in the school that is most represented in the region you want to work that you can afford. Definitely don't waste money on a top school unless it happens to fall into that category (i.e. you want to work as PD in Virginia then it would make sense to go to UVA assuming the price was not excessive).

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:25 pm

All schools are going to offer lots of criminal law courses and virtually all are going to have some kind of criminal clinic opportunities. - it's not an especially specialized or obscure legal field. So I agree, go to the school most represented in the region you want to work that you can afford. Going to school in the region where you want to work is helpful because you can intern for relevant employers during the school year as well as during the summers.

Ti Malice
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:32 pm

Don't know much about the PD route, but just so you know, if your GPA is in fact a 3.3, you have zero chance at Harvard as a non-URM. Are you using lawschoolpredictor? Don't. It's worthless in general and worse than useless for splitters.

laddiemort wrote:I'm from Minnesota and I would be perfectly happy to work here, but I don't necessarily want to lock myself into it. Otherwise I would go to UMN in a heartbeat.


Going by what others have said, you should strongly consider UMN. They throw gobs of money at splitters. What is your LSAT exactly? Assuming it's in the 170s, you might get enough money to cover all of your in-state tuition at UMN.

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Nova
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby Nova » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:46 pm

Take the lsat.

Paul Campos
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby Paul Campos » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:47 pm

Assuming you're a splitter with a low GPA and a high LSAT you should go to a non-joke school on a full scholarship in an area you're willing to work. If you go to T-14 you're going to end up with massive debt and doing OCI like everybody else. Also PD and DA are completely different tracks at the entry level.

Ti Malice
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby Ti Malice » Sun Jul 14, 2013 1:54 pm

Nova wrote:Take the lsat.


Goddammit, not another one of these people.

OP has a 3.3 GPA, has no LSAT score, is enrolled in a Kraplan course, and already thinks he's in at most of the T14. Jeebus.

Come back in four months with an actual score, OP. Stick to LSN and the LSAT forum until then.

laddiemort
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby laddiemort » Sun Jul 14, 2013 3:52 pm

I'm not sure how I missed that I put in the wrong GPA, but it's currently a 3.5 (I was really confused about where you were getting 3.3) and I still have two years to go and can get it up to at least 3.6 pretty easily because I finished all the gen ed requirements that brought it down and have a pretty easy ride for the rest of my undergrad. Also, my latest practice score is 172 and I haven't finished learning logic games. I don't think I'm in at the T14; I think I have a shot if I put in the work.

Obviously, it doesn't make sense to use projected numbers if I'm asking what my chances are, but I wasn't asking what my chances are.
I just wanted to know which school is the best for my goals. Not every school has summer stipends for PI internships and some just don't have many clinics.

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twenty
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby twenty » Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:38 pm

Quick thread hijack that's sort of related!

Is it a better to go to a decent regional school you have ties to (i.e, UTexas) or a top school outside the region (i.e, UChicago/NYU) if your life goal is to gun for PI crim, presumably DA/PD?

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:39 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Quick thread hijack that's sort of related!

Is it a better to go to a decent regional school you have ties to (i.e, UTexas) or a top school outside the region (i.e, UChicago/NYU) if your life goal is to gun for PI crim, presumably DA/PD?

I don't know if this is the credited response, but my impression is that you have a better chance of getting a DA/PD gig somewhere you've interned, and the more you can intern for that office, the better. So going to school in the region where you want to practice would give you more opportunities to intern for the offices where you want to work. (This is based on the people I know who got DA/PD jobs having interned in those offices during the school year.) But I went to the regional flagship in a region without T14s, so I can't really say how it works for a T14-er who wants to return to the region - it may be that summer gigs are perfectly sufficient, I just don't know.

nebula666
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby nebula666 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:07 pm

twentypercentmore wrote:Quick thread hijack that's sort of related!

Is it a better to go to a decent regional school you have ties to (i.e, UTexas) or a top school outside the region (i.e, UChicago/NYU) if your life goal is to gun for PI crim, presumably DA/PD?


I don't think Texas is a great example because it is so close to the T14 to begin with.

If someone for instance had to choose between sticker at UVA, Duke, and Vandy for PI in Florida, I would say FSU with a full ride is a better option.

laddiemort
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby laddiemort » Sun Jul 14, 2013 11:58 pm

If region doesn't particularly matter to me, which of the T14 are better for a future public defender or prosecutor (are some better for one but not the other)? Are there any standouts? Do all of them offer summer funding for unpaid PI internships? Where is it guaranteed? Which schools have the best clinic selection?

Finally, which schools are the most friendly to PI? When I asked an adcomm rep for Columbia about summer funding at the Chicago LSAC forum, he didn't even know that unpaid internships were a thing in public interest (he seemed to think that anyone would throw money at a Columbia student just for being a Columbia student). While this was only one guy, I did find it concerning that the one guy they chose to answer questions from everyone was so poorly informed about PI in general.

I think that not having my numbers locked down yet is the best time to research, since I can use the motivation. I just want to pick a good school to shoot for, which will help motivate me while studying for October. If I can't make it to T14 (or it would still be financially ruinous if I did), I would be fine going to Minnesota, but the thought of going to UMN doesn't ignite me when I'm drilling RC like the thought of Penn or Chicago does.

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Bronte
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby Bronte » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:09 am

If region doesn't matter, then you should go to the best school in the region where you have the strongest ties and try to get a full ride. A full ride means a high LSAT score so that should be motivation enough to study. Don't worry about the PI programs or PI friendliness of these schools. They're relatively fungible in that regard.

laddiemort
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby laddiemort » Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:47 am

That's ... pretty legit. I'm getting a very Minnesota vibe from this thread. Should I be concerned about their lack of a full LRAP program? There is a non-profit that manages one for grads of MN law schools and employees of MN agencies, but it has very limited funding and doesn't fund everyone who is eligible. The summer funding also uses a competitive application process.

BigZuck
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:02 am

laddiemort wrote:That's ... pretty legit. I'm getting a very Minnesota vibe from this thread. Should I be concerned about their lack of a full LRAP program? There is a non-profit that manages one for grads of MN law schools and employees of MN agencies, but it has very limited funding and doesn't fund everyone who is eligible. The summer funding also uses a competitive application process.


Only go there on a fully (shouldn't be too tough to get, they are notorious rankings gamers and also generous with scholarship money) and then you won't have to worry about LRAP.

laddiemort
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby laddiemort » Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:17 am

I'll still have to borrow to cover cost of living, but I suppose that won't be too much of a burden. I'll hit up the Georgetown Debt Calculator.

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Borhas
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby Borhas » Sat Jul 20, 2013 6:55 pm

the one with the best LRAP in a city or state that has offices that regularly hire out of law school

if the school doesn't have a criminal practice clinic that lets you appear in court, cross it off the list

if the school isn't in a major city cross it off the list (at least as your top choice)

TheFactor
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby TheFactor » Sat Jul 27, 2013 9:35 pm

Yale

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jbagelboy
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:42 am

Public liberal arts? What does that even mean? Like UMN Morris?

I applaud your goals, and with the right networking, they are definitely achievable from UMN law (great on full ride) -- Id also consider Michigan if you want to stay on that region and you're PI minded. Even DA/PD offices will grab T13 grads when they can get them.

With a 3.5-3.6 from those types of colleges there is no chance at Harvard, Columbia is far from likely w/o a 175+. Not sure where you got that, but best of luck

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:49 am

jbagelboy wrote:Public liberal arts? What does that even mean? Like UMN Morris?

Yup, small liberal arts colleges funded by the state. These schools: http://www.coplac.org/members/ (or these: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... top-public) (USNWR counts the military academies, which aren't COPLAC members).

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jbagelboy
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Re: Best Schools for PI Criminal Law?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:52 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Public liberal arts? What does that even mean? Like UMN Morris?

Yup, small liberal arts colleges funded by the state. These schools: http://www.coplac.org/members/ (or these: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandrevie ... top-public) (USNWR counts the military academies, which aren't COPLAC members).


Right. Thanks!




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