South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

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JuTMSY4
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby JuTMSY4 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 5:45 pm

Nova wrote:Without looking at lsn, I seriously doubt you even need 160+ for scholarships to fiu or nova.

You should look into lawschoolnumbers.com to see.

The thing about ttt(s) is that scholarships are usually conditional and require you to be on the top x% of the class.

You would probably have one of the highest if not highest lsat score at either fiu or nova.... so even though conventional wisdom says don't count on doing better than about median.... odds are you will have a better chane than most to do well. But if you end up at median and paying sticker, you would be tragically overpaying.

Please look up these schools employment prospects on lawschooltransparency.com if you haven't. Odds of practicing law out of all the schools you listed are very poor.


This may be true.

Apply to other schools both higher level and similar to Miami. Use them for scholarship ammunition. Negotiate stips away at the schools your interested in. Don't be bashful about negotiations.

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sublime
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby sublime » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:17 pm

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Throttle
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby Throttle » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:25 pm

sublime wrote:
Throttle wrote:So OP has no Lsat score and these are the schools he/she wants to go to? Wow, way to am low. With the Florida legal market being relatively small, you want to at least go to Florida, FSU, Emory, or T14 . Miami has shit job prospects, and those other schools you mentioned are toilets.



Just out of curiosity, how would you explain the LST numbers for UF, Nova, FIU, and Miami?


Explain as in explain away? No, no I can't explain away the shit job prospects from those schools. Nor can explain why they have such shit job prospects.

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Nova
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby Nova » Wed Jul 17, 2013 6:37 pm

Throttle wrote:
sublime wrote:Just out of curiosity, how would you explain the LST numbers for UF, Nova, FIU, and Miami?


Explain as in explain away? No, no I can't explain away the shit job prospects from those schools. Nor can explain why they have such shit job prospects.

:roll: :roll:

FIU wrote:•63.6% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. 1.6% of these jobs were school-funded jobs.
•81.5% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•78.8% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=fiu&show=chars

UF wrote:•56.8% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs.
•71.2% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•68.5% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... show=chars


One difference is that about a third of FIU grads are in firms under 10 attorneys, while only about 15% of UF grads are. i would guess the FIU grads are mostly making 30-40k doing extra unsexy legal work that UF grads are not willing to settle for. IDK though. Im not from FL and dont know their market at all.
Last edited by Nova on Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PrettyPistol
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby PrettyPistol » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:04 pm

nebula666 wrote:
Throttle wrote:So OP has no Lsat score and these are the schools he/she wants to go to? Wow, way to am low. With the Florida legal market being relatively small, you want to at least go to Florida, FSU, Emory, or T14 . Miami has shit job prospects, and those other schools you mentioned are toilets.


At least read the thread.


^^^ This.....

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PrettyPistol
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby PrettyPistol » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:06 pm

JuTMSY4 wrote:
Nova wrote:Without looking at lsn, I seriously doubt you even need 160+ for scholarships to fiu or nova.

You should look into lawschoolnumbers.com to see.

The thing about ttt(s) is that scholarships are usually conditional and require you to be on the top x% of the class.

You would probably have one of the highest if not highest lsat score at either fiu or nova.... so even though conventional wisdom says don't count on doing better than about median.... odds are you will have a better chane than most to do well. But if you end up at median and paying sticker, you would be tragically overpaying.

Please look up these schools employment prospects on lawschooltransparency.com if you haven't. Odds of practicing law out of all the schools you listed are very poor.


This may be true.

Apply to other schools both higher level and similar to Miami. Use them for scholarship ammunition. Negotiate stips away at the schools your interested in. Don't be bashful about negotiations.


Thanks for the advice I will definitely do this.

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PrettyPistol
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby PrettyPistol » Wed Jul 17, 2013 8:11 pm

Nova wrote:
Throttle wrote:
sublime wrote:Just out of curiosity, how would you explain the LST numbers for UF, Nova, FIU, and Miami?


Explain as in explain away? No, no I can't explain away the shit job prospects from those schools. Nor can explain why they have such shit job prospects.

:roll: :roll:

FIU wrote:•63.6% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. 1.6% of these jobs were school-funded jobs.
•81.5% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•78.8% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school=fiu&show=chars

UF wrote:•56.8% of graduates were known to be employed in long-term, full-time legal jobs. This figure includes no school-funded jobs.
•71.2% graduates were employed in long-term jobs.
•68.5% graduates were employed in full-time jobs.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/?school= ... show=chars


One difference is that about a third of FIU grads are in firms under 10 attorneys, while only about 15% of UF grads are. i would guess the FIU grads are mostly making 30-40k doing extra unsexy legal work that UF grads are not willing to settle for. IDK though. Im not from FL and dont know their market at all.



Thank you for taking the time to break all that info down.

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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby sublime » Wed Jul 17, 2013 9:41 pm

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Throttle
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby Throttle » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:46 pm

sublime wrote:Thanks, Nova. That is exactly what I meant. The employment scores are not that different (FIU, Miami are higher than UF, while Nova is like .8 lower.

My pet theory is that UF is hurt by being the only one not near a city. At all. Gainesville is in the middle of nowhere. And as you said, the actual jobs seem to be slightly better from UF, but it doesn't seem like any school in the state has a meaningful shot at biglaw anyway.

I just find it interesting that the general forum attitude seems to be that UF/FSU are alright, whereas FIU, Stetson, Nova, and to a lesser extent, Miami are shit, and I just don't see that huge of a difference.


The difference is200k+ from The toilet schools vs 120k from fsu/Uf

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sublime
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby sublime » Wed Jul 17, 2013 10:48 pm

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itachiuchiha
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby itachiuchiha » Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:20 am

I spoke to Nova's dean in person. a 158 on the LSAT will get you their max scholly which overs 2/3 of tuition. NOT WORTH IT IMO

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Bless
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby Bless » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:22 am

sublime wrote:Thanks, Nova. That is exactly what I meant. The employment scores are not that different (FIU, Miami are higher than UF, while Nova is like .8 lower.

My pet theory is that UF is hurt by being the only one not near a city. At all. Gainesville is in the middle of nowhere. And as you said, the actual jobs seem to be slightly better from UF, but it doesn't seem like any school in the state has a meaningful shot at biglaw anyway.

I just find it interesting that the general forum attitude seems to be that UF/FSU are alright, whereas FIU, Stetson, Nova, and to a lesser extent, Miami are shit, and I just don't see that huge of a difference.

There are four major differences.

First is the COA, although FIU is a state school and thus, an affordable option. Nova and UM are a rip off.

Second, employment prospects. FIU & Nova have basically no shot at "FL biglaw" firms and only a slightly better shot at any other firms paying well.

Third, reach. Nova & FIU grads are confined to South FL (not necessarily a bad thing, because pretty much everywhere else in FL sucks). UF & FSU can reach into all South FL markets and certain others (i.e., Atlanta). ***

Last, education. Everyone I know who has transferred from Nova to FSU has said what a difference in education they are receiving.


*** As an FSU student wanting to practice in South Florida, I've found myself in a predicament I did not anticipate. Outside of biglaw opportunities, which are limited to begin with, FSU does not flood the South FL market. You know what schools do flood the South FL market? UM & Nova (and going forward, potentially FIU). That's the reality. TLS rhetoric & FSU's acclaim always made me feel like I would be a sure-shot over Nova and UM grads when applying to South Florida firms -- unfortunately, that's not the case. The FSU brand is diluted down here because of the surplus of UM/Nova networks.

Just some food for thought. Of course, I don't regret choosing the FSU route. I've paid less, received a better education, and in the long-run, will perceptibly benefit. I also have more opportunity overall. But yeah, that's the South FL caveat to attending FSU (and maybe UF).
Last edited by Bless on Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:34 am, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby BigZuck » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:33 am

Bless wrote:
sublime wrote:Thanks, Nova. That is exactly what I meant. The employment scores are not that different (FIU, Miami are higher than UF, while Nova is like .8 lower.

My pet theory is that UF is hurt by being the only one not near a city. At all. Gainesville is in the middle of nowhere. And as you said, the actual jobs seem to be slightly better from UF, but it doesn't seem like any school in the state has a meaningful shot at biglaw anyway.

I just find it interesting that the general forum attitude seems to be that UF/FSU are alright, whereas FIU, Stetson, Nova, and to a lesser extent, Miami are shit, and I just don't see that huge of a difference.

There are four major differences.

First is the COA, although FIU is a state school and thus, an affordable option. Nova and UM are a rip off.

Second, employment prospects. FIU & Nova have basically no shot at "FL biglaw" firms and a small shot at any other firms paying well.

Third, reach. Nova & FIU grads are confined to South FL (not necessarily a bad thing, because pretty much everywhere else in FL sucks). UF & FSU can reach into all South FL markets and certain others (i.e., Atlanta).

Last, education. Everyone I know who has transferred from Nova to FSU has said what a difference in education they are receiving.


UF has reach into Atlanta? What are you basing that on? The data Nova presented says 1% of the most recent class was working as a lawyer in Georgia. Similarly FIU had 1% in Texas. Would it be ok to say that FIU has reach into Houston/Dallas?

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Bless
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby Bless » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:36 am

BigZuck wrote:
UF has reach into Atlanta? What are you basing that on? The data Nova presented says 1% of the most recent class was working as a lawyer in Georgia. Similarly FIU had 1% in Texas. Would it be ok to say that FIU has reach into Houston/Dallas?

I'm assuming UF reaches into Atlanta, because FSU does a bit. I know someone out of UF working biglaw in ATL; perhaps my estimation is off on the reach.

FSU has a lot of grads in Atlanta, but I'm not sure how many actually fill the ATL slots straight out of school. It's supposed to be (lol) a market FSU can hit.

usfvictor
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby usfvictor » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:43 am

OP, i'd say FIU. UM would be a difficult commute and Nova probably isn't worth it. If you get in the ballpark where you are PT'ing you will get a full(or close to full) ride from FIU. You can even do the part-time program, if family situation calls for it.

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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby usfvictor » Thu Jul 18, 2013 9:46 am

Bless wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
UF has reach into Atlanta? What are you basing that on? The data Nova presented says 1% of the most recent class was working as a lawyer in Georgia. Similarly FIU had 1% in Texas. Would it be ok to say that FIU has reach into Houston/Dallas?

I'm assuming UF reaches into Atlanta, because FSU does a bit. I know someone out of UF working biglaw in ATL; perhaps my estimation is off on the reach.

FSU has a lot of grads in Atlanta, but I'm not sure how many actually fill the ATL slots straight out of school. It's supposed to be (lol) a market FSU can hit.



You know what they say about assuming right? :lol:

In all seriousness, I don't think UF Law places super well in GA. Historically if they place 1% into GA every year theres a decent(though minimal) amount of UF Law alum in the area. However, I know UF (the university, not just law school) overall has a fair amount of alum in GA, esp ATL.

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PrettyPistol
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby PrettyPistol » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:00 am

Bless wrote:
sublime wrote:Thanks, Nova. That is exactly what I meant. The employment scores are not that different (FIU, Miami are higher than UF, while Nova is like .8 lower.

My pet theory is that UF is hurt by being the only one not near a city. At all. Gainesville is in the middle of nowhere. And as you said, the actual jobs seem to be slightly better from UF, but it doesn't seem like any school in the state has a meaningful shot at biglaw anyway.

I just find it interesting that the general forum attitude seems to be that UF/FSU are alright, whereas FIU, Stetson, Nova, and to a lesser extent, Miami are shit, and I just don't see that huge of a difference.

There are four major differences.

First is the COA, although FIU is a state school and thus, an affordable option. Nova and UM are a rip off.

Second, employment prospects. FIU & Nova have basically no shot at "FL biglaw" firms and only a slightly better shot at any other firms paying well.

Third, reach. Nova & FIU grads are confined to South FL (not necessarily a bad thing, because pretty much everywhere else in FL sucks). UF & FSU can reach into all South FL markets and certain others (i.e., Atlanta). ***

Last, education. Everyone I know who has transferred from Nova to FSU has said what a difference in education they are receiving.


*** As an FSU student wanting to practice in South Florida, I've found myself in a predicament I did not anticipate. Outside of biglaw opportunities, which are limited to begin with, FSU does not flood the South FL market. You know what schools do flood the South FL market? UM & Nova (and going forward, potentially FIU). That's the reality. TLS rhetoric & FSU's acclaim always made me feel like I would be a sure-shot over Nova and UM grads when applying to South Florida firms -- unfortunately, that's not the case. The FSU brand is diluted down here because of the surplus of UM/Nova networks.

Just some food for thought. Of course, I don't regret choosing the FSU route. I've paid less, received a better education, and in the long-run, will perceptibly benefit. I also have more opportunity overall. But yeah, that's the South FL caveat to attending FSU (and maybe UF).



A friend of mine at FSU recently gave me similar advice. It seems that for someone in my situation Nova/UM are not bad options for what I want to do.

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Bless
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby Bless » Thu Jul 18, 2013 1:39 pm

PrettyPistol wrote:A friend of mine at FSU recently gave me similar advice. It seems that for someone in my situation Nova/UM are not bad options for what I want to do.

Make sure you get as much money as you can from either school. I cannot reiterate this point enough.

Applying to other schools is necessary to do this; collateral goes a long way when seeking out scholly money. When I was applying to law school, I was able to shake down schools for amounts of money that I didn't even deserve.

jtype01
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby jtype01 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 11:27 am

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Last edited by jtype01 on Tue Feb 04, 2014 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ex Cearulo
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby Ex Cearulo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 9:56 pm

PrettyPistol wrote:-The schools you are considering : UM, Nova Southeastern, FIU
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each: Depends on sticker vs possible scholarship. (I’m aware this is a stretch given my mediocre gpa) However going to UM/FIU would require additional expenses, ie: Needing to purchase a car vs lease due to mileage limit (12k yearly) & putting my children into full time day care vs part-time daycare due to commute and scheduling.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings : Loans
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any) : Coral Springs, FL. I plan to stay in Ft Lauderdale & West Palm area
-Your general career goals: Prosecution (I have no big law ambition. This is what I truly desire for myself as a career.)
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers : LSAT: Scheduled for October, (Ball-parking 167-171 if PT is any indication) GPA 3.2 Overall, 3.71 Major (Major: Criminology)
-How many times you have taken the LSAT; None (Scheduled in October)

Other mitigating factors: (hence why I’m stuck in South Florida)

Married with 2 children (2 month old and a 3 year old).
We own our home (with mortgage) in Coral Springs & my husband has a very good job here


What is the best choice for me? I doubt I will get any scholarship money if I score 167 or less (which is the low end of my current PT average)

OP, speaking as someone who is also married with two kids and a mortgage, I understand where you're coming from in terms of limiting your options to South Florida. (side note - I'm from a little north of West Palm Beach and I have family in Ft. Lauderdale and Miami, so I know the area you're talking about). People on TLS will take one look at your proposed schools and scoff you if you're not attempting to go to a T14 or state flagship school. In many cases, that's the credited response, but not always. I'd venture a guess that ~90% of the posters here don't truly understand what things like being married, having kids, and having true financial responsibilities do to your mobility. So ignore people who, despite the information in your original post, tell you to "just" go to UF, or Emory or a T14, or what have you. Like it's no big deal, right?

Of course, having an actual LSAT score and firm scholarship offers will help people give you better advice. But the BL here is that overall employment statistics for schools like FIU, Nova, and even Miami aren't spectacular. Sure, if you finish in the top 10-15%% of your class, you'll probably find work and you may find that prosecutor's job you want. My sister is a rising 3L at UF currently doing a summer internship at a prominent plaintiff's boutique in Ft. Lauderdale. Her firm has lots of attorneys that went to those three schools, and she has met several others, as well. So in the immediate south Florida area it's very possible to find a good job, provided you perform well in law school.

But the moral of the story here is minimize debt in case you don't finish at the top of your class and can't find a good job (not to mention that brand new assistant state attorneys don't exactly make bank). If you kill the LSAT and all three of your schools throw money at you, look carefully at the stipulations attached to the scholarship offers and choose the school that gives you the best combination of money, the odds to actually keep the scholarship, and that provides a workable family life in terms of commute.

Hope this helps!

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sublime
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Re: South Florida School options (UM/Nova/FIU)

Postby sublime » Wed Jul 24, 2013 10:37 pm

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