ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

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09042014
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:46 pm

laotze wrote:
Desert Fox wrote:
laotze wrote:
Lavitz wrote:As I expected, it looks like Georgetown would pass Cornell. There's a pretty big gap there.

I wonder if Cornell would stop spending so much on faculty and start spending more on scholarships to get its medians back up.


No accounting for Cornell's significant employment advantage over GULC?


Employment stats are BS. Gtown just has to pay all their nojerbs 8.50 an hour to clean the floors and bam! 100%.


I'm talking bar passage-required employment. Last I checked Cornell had like a 15-20% lead over GULC.

EDIT: Only about 12%, not as dramatic as I thought.
http://abovethelaw.com/schools/georgeto ... employment
http://abovethelaw.com/schools/cornell- ... employment


As long as GULC requires their janitor-to-practice program to have a JD, it counts baby.

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The Brainalist
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:56 pm

http://money-law.blogspot.com/2010/12/z ... n-law.html

a later model for the z scores. I haven't found a newer one yet.

What stands out for me is how Stanford would likely be passed by Columbia based on other raw numbers. Also, Stanford seems to get a huge bump for bar passage thanks to being in a difficult bar state.
Last edited by The Brainalist on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.

timbs4339
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:58 pm

Remove expenditures and use real tuition, hopefully creating a ranking system that includes T14>cheap public schools with crappy placement> overpriced privates with crappy placement.

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Lavitz
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:58 pm

The Brainalist wrote:http://money-law.blogspot.com/2010/12/z-scores-in-model-of-2011-usn-law.html

a later model for the z scores. I haven't found a newer one yet.

Thanks for this.

I retract my previous statement. Gap between Cornell and GULC vanished that year. Don't know what to expect then.

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Samara
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:10 pm

MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Samara wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Student/faculty ratio is still important.

Student/faculty ratio holds little relevance in law school. Do you know how many worthless classes Yale offers? That's not what makes a school good.


hmmmmm. What classes would Yale offer? How to be President? I would totally enroll in that.

This one is perfect for you. :P
Why Government Fails So Often
"This seminar . . . is almost entirely policy-analytically-oriented rather than legal"

Reading the Constitution
"The course will begin by studying the document itself in exquisite detail, Article by Article, and Amendment by Amendment."

Capitalism Film Society

Reason and Passion in the Law
"Should a judge be a mechanical instrument of pure, detached reason, or an active personality imbued with human empathy?"

Book of Job & Injustice

Robber Barons Reconsidered

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sinfiery
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:12 pm

The Brainalist wrote:I can't find it, but I once read an article about why Yale always has and always will be number 1 in USNEWS, and it was basically because it has a huge advantage in expenditures. The idea of it is now rehashed every year, but here is one blog from a few years ago that explains it.

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... n-law.html

Newest version I could find
http://www.tomwbell.com/images/USNews'1 ... Scores.gif


Guess its gonna be VCC. Funny how they got shit for manipulating rankings

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Cicero76
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Cicero76 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:14 pm

Does anybody have any good ideas on what things to measure in place of expenditures? (Other than jerbs, that's a different discussion.)

Jay Obee
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Jay Obee » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:22 pm

Cicero76 wrote:Does anybody have any good ideas on what things to measure in place of expenditures? (Other than jerbs, that's a different discussion.)


Tuition cost would be awesome. I'd like to see schools start competing downwards on that.

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haus
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby haus » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:25 pm

Desert Fox wrote: As long as GULC requires their janitor-to-practice program to have a JD, it counts baby.

Sure the bathrooms might not be cleaned very well, but the janitorial procedures would be some of the best written in the industry.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:33 pm

I'm not interested until somebody's rankings consist exclusively of (Percent of class that can get Biglaw if they want it / Total COA). US News can make changes on the margins and regardless should still be entirely ignored.

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laotze
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby laotze » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:36 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:I'm not interested until somebody's rankings consist exclusively of (Percent of class that can get Biglaw if they want it / Total COA). US News can make changes on the margins and regardless should still be entirely ignored.


Isn't that more or less the ATL metric?

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The Brainalist
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:39 pm

I like to think we are beyond the point where people blindly rely on the USNWR rankings. However, I don't care about the decisionmaking of future law students. USNEWS is an huge advertisement for law schools and infiltrates mainstream consciousness. It basically creates lay perception in some instances. So, I have a horse in the race and I root for it. The spoils of such a victory are the oohs and aaahs of many tiger moms.

timbs4339
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby timbs4339 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:41 pm

The Brainalist wrote: However, I don't care about the decisionmaking of future law students.


Wow you're dumb.

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The Brainalist
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:42 pm

timbs4339 wrote:
The Brainalist wrote: However, I don't care about the decisionmaking of future law students.


Wow you're dumb.


LOL

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guano
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby guano » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:54 pm

laotze wrote:
Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote:I'm not interested until somebody's rankings consist exclusively of (Percent of class that can get Biglaw if they want it / Total COA). US News can make changes on the margins and regardless should still be entirely ignored.


Isn't that more or less the ATL metric?

No, their metric doesn't distinguish biglaw from shitlaw, just so long as its full time JD required.

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LeeAdama
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby LeeAdama » Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:59 pm

Samara wrote:
MarkinKansasCity wrote:
Samara wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Student/faculty ratio is still important.

Student/faculty ratio holds little relevance in law school. Do you know how many worthless classes Yale offers? That's not what makes a school good.


hmmmmm. What classes would Yale offer? How to be President? I would totally enroll in that.

This one is perfect for you. :P
Why Government Fails So Often
"This seminar . . . is almost entirely policy-analytically-oriented rather than legal"

Reading the Constitution
"The course will begin by studying the document itself in exquisite detail, Article by Article, and Amendment by Amendment."


I'd leave Akhil Amar's Reading the Constitution off this list. An in-depth study of the Constitution and various methods of constitutional interpretation with one of the nation's foremost scholars on the issue sounds like a pretty good use of time in law school.

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Samara
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:04 pm

LeeAdama wrote:I'd leave Akhil Amar's Reading the Constitution off this list. An in-depth study of the Constitution and various methods of constitutional interpretation with one of the nation's foremost scholars on the issue sounds like a pretty good use of time in law school.

I only put that one on there because I thought the title and course description was humorously over-the-top.

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Cicero76
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Cicero76 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:24 pm

Jay Obee wrote:
Cicero76 wrote:Does anybody have any good ideas on what things to measure in place of expenditures? (Other than jerbs, that's a different discussion.)


Tuition cost would be awesome. I'd like to see schools start competing downwards on that.


That's pretty brilliant

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laotze
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby laotze » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:27 pm

Cicero76 wrote:
Jay Obee wrote:
Cicero76 wrote:Does anybody have any good ideas on what things to measure in place of expenditures? (Other than jerbs, that's a different discussion.)


Tuition cost would be awesome. I'd like to see schools start competing downwards on that.


That's pretty brilliant


Goodbye HYS, hello BYU/UND/SULC?

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jbagelboy
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:32 pm

The Brainalist wrote:I like to think we are beyond the point where people blindly rely on the USNWR rankings. However, I don't care about the decisionmaking of future law students. USNEWS is an huge advertisement for law schools and infiltrates mainstream consciousness. It basically creates lay perception in some instances. So, I have a horse in the race and I root for it. The spoils of such a victory are the oohs and aaahs of many tiger moms.


Where do you go to school again?

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:52 pm

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Last edited by Myself on Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

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LeeAdama
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby LeeAdama » Tue Jul 09, 2013 7:27 pm

ajax adonis wrote:
LeeAdama wrote:I'd leave Akhil Amar's Reading the Constitution off this list. An in-depth study of the Constitution and various methods of constitutional interpretation with one of the nation's foremost scholars on the issue sounds like a pretty good use of time in law school.


I just looked at his CV out of curiosity. Dude got a 4.0 at Yale?? What the heck: http://www.law.yale.edu/faculty/amarcurriculumvitae.htm

I sometimes see this and wonder why the prof didn't clerk at all. It seems like he was an American citizen; he was born in Michigan.


I don't know why it's not on his CV, but he clerked for Breyer when he was on the First Circuit. Amar's always rumored to be on a shortlist for SCOTUS whenever there's an opening under a Democrat.

Myself
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Postby Myself » Tue Jul 09, 2013 11:33 pm

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Ti Malice
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Ti Malice » Sat Jul 13, 2013 6:03 pm

If this happens, then it's time for Asha to dump the holistic-focus crap and push the LSAT median up to 175. :lol:

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Monochromatic Oeuvre
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Jul 13, 2013 10:34 pm

Ti Malice wrote:If this happens, then it's time for Asha to dump the holistic-focus crap and push the LSAT median up to 175. :lol:


Serious question: Does Yale actually care about being USNWR #1? Would they have to deal with shit from alumni if they lost it? Or would they be as DGAF about their medians as Stanford is?

Also, Yale has the distinct advantage of not having to worry about Harvard's medians because they could easily screw up Harvard's 173 by just not leaving any more of those "godly numbers" candidates out in the cold to get scooped up by Harvard.




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