ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

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Archangel
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ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Archangel » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:32 pm

--LinkRemoved--

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... ws-do.html

Could Yale fall from grace? :shock:

lol... probably not :D
Last edited by Archangel on Fri Sep 06, 2013 2:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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DoveBodyWash
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby DoveBodyWash » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:34 pm

I'm not ready for a world where Yale isn't #1. FWIW I think the elite schools will find a way to maintain their positions even if USNWR changed the criteria. No way NYU is gonna let itself slip after investing so much capital into their faculty.

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Lavitz
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:37 pm

If they do drop it, as they should have long ago, expect to see Yale lose its #1 spot, expect to see NYU drop, and expect to see state schools like Hastings and Wisconsin rise.

CCP?

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sinfiery
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:42 pm

:cry:

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Archangel
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Archangel » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:52 pm

Wow, this expenditures metric carries some significant weight 0.15 vs LSAT 0.125... vs Placement 0.20. Any thoughts on how they would distribute the weight? In any event, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds in the coming years. That is all.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... s-rankings
Last edited by Archangel on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zozin
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby zozin » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:52 pm

sinfiery wrote::cry:

I hope this was sarcasm.

Archangel wrote:Wow, this expenditures metric carries some significant weight 0.15 vs LSAT 0.125... vs Placement 0.20. Any thoughts on how they would distribute the weight? In any event, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds in the coming years.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... s-rankings

Jerbs: 100%.

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Cicero76
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Cicero76 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:54 pm

Not gunna lie, I would be kinda sad if these changes meant I didn't go to the #1 law school. Which is probably a whole new level of pathetic.

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TaipeiMort
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby TaipeiMort » Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:59 pm

Archangel wrote:http://abovethelaw.com/2013/07/the-aba-does-something-right-will-u-s-news-follow-and-end-one-perverse-incentive-for-law-schools/#more-256394

http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leit ... ws-do.html

Could Yale fall from grace? :shock:


It will have significant changes. See what happened to Chicago when the expenditure calculation changed in 1999 (and the then-dean refused to recalibrate Chicago's expenditure calculation methodology the same way its peers did): http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... ?f=1&t=213

Chicago ranked consistently between two and four until that year, when it dropped to 6.

Chicago's new Dean was hired in 2010, and changed the expenditure methodology to match what all of the other T14s were doing. Chicago immediately jumped to 5, and then to 4 again this year.

This is going to have a huge impact on the rankings.
Last edited by TaipeiMort on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lavitz
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:00 pm

Archangel wrote:Wow, this expenditures metric carries some significant weight 0.15 vs LSAT 0.125... vs Placement 0.20. Any thoughts on how they would distribute the weight? In any event, it will be interesting to see how this unfolds in the coming years. That is all.

http://www.usnews.com/education/best-gr ... s-rankings

Yes, but I don't think the entire .15 would be eliminated. At the very least, .03 of that is student-faculty ratio, which I imagine would still be reported.

09042014
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:01 pm

Good. How much money you waste should not be a factor. IF anything lower expenditures should be positive.

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TheThriller
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby TheThriller » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:24 pm

What schools do we think this will effect the most? Those who charge the most in tuition? (or is high tuition a poor metric to assume expenditure?)

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jbagelboy
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:27 pm

Student/faculty ratio is still important. They wont drop it.

Expenditures are bullshit. This is a positive development. Yale still blows its peers out of the water in fed clerkship and LSAT median. Those will help maintain its top rank, I believe, especially if they privilege LSAT and elite employment (A3) more conspicuously

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laotze
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby laotze » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:28 pm

SYH CCP MVN?

#ITTBlatantPennTrolling

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The Brainalist
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:31 pm

I can't find it, but I once read an article about why Yale always has and always will be number 1 in USNEWS, and it was basically because it has a huge advantage in expenditures. The idea of it is now rehashed every year, but here is one blog from a few years ago that explains it.

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... n-law.html

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jbagelboy
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:34 pm

And if NYU drops, it will be because of a 170 lsat median (which will make its net combo lower than penn). NYU employment numbers are still ridiculously strong and that part wont change. However, I honestly dont see them holding that 4 point metric gap above penn/virginia.

Also on the expenditures side.. Couldnt this hurt all metropolitan law schools? (Chicago, new york, bay area) and help duke/mich? Due to CoL, pay must be higher for profs and resources at those institutions, and less in the college towns

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The Brainalist
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby The Brainalist » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:35 pm

jbagelboy wrote:
Also on the expenditures side.. Couldnt this hurt all metropolitan law schools? (Chicago, new york, bay area) and help duke/mich? Due to CoL, pay must be higher for profs and resources at those institutions, and less in the college towns


USNWR already adjusted for COL, I think.

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Lavitz
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:36 pm

The Brainalist wrote:I can't find it, but I once read an article about why Yale always has and always will be number 1 in USNEWS, and it was basically because it has a huge advantage in expenditures. The idea of it is now rehashed every year, but here is one blog from a few years ago that explains it.

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... n-law.html

As I expected, it looks like Georgetown would pass Cornell. There's a pretty big gap there.

I wonder if Cornell would stop spending so much on faculty and start spending more on scholarships to get its medians back up.

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laotze
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby laotze » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:38 pm

Lavitz wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:I can't find it, but I once read an article about why Yale always has and always will be number 1 in USNEWS, and it was basically because it has a huge advantage in expenditures. The idea of it is now rehashed every year, but here is one blog from a few years ago that explains it.

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... n-law.html

As I expected, it looks like Georgetown would pass Cornell. There's a pretty big gap there.

I wonder if Cornell would stop spending so much on faculty and start spending more on scholarships to get its medians back up.


No accounting for Cornell's significant employment advantage over GULC?

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JamMasterJ
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby JamMasterJ » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:39 pm

Desert Fox wrote:Good. How much money you waste should not be a factor. IF anything lower expenditures should be positive.

This makes sense. At least in theory, the value add from the things that lead to high expenditures are accounted for elsewhere (grant awards = LSAT/gpa, teacher buying = peer evaluations). Making these other numbers high on fewer dollars is really a better goal.

09042014
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby 09042014 » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:39 pm

laotze wrote:
Lavitz wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:I can't find it, but I once read an article about why Yale always has and always will be number 1 in USNEWS, and it was basically because it has a huge advantage in expenditures. The idea of it is now rehashed every year, but here is one blog from a few years ago that explains it.

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... n-law.html

As I expected, it looks like Georgetown would pass Cornell. There's a pretty big gap there.

I wonder if Cornell would stop spending so much on faculty and start spending more on scholarships to get its medians back up.


No accounting for Cornell's significant employment advantage over GULC?


Employment stats are BS. Gtown just has to pay all their nojerbs 8.50 an hour to clean the floors and bam! 100%.

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Lavitz
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Lavitz » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:41 pm

laotze wrote:No accounting for Cornell's significant employment advantage over GULC?

Just a hunch. Since we just regained the 13 spot this year, I imagine the difference in raw score is small. So I'm guessing such a change would throw the advantage back to GULC.

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laotze
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby laotze » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:41 pm

Desert Fox wrote:
laotze wrote:
Lavitz wrote:
The Brainalist wrote:I can't find it, but I once read an article about why Yale always has and always will be number 1 in USNEWS, and it was basically because it has a huge advantage in expenditures. The idea of it is now rehashed every year, but here is one blog from a few years ago that explains it.

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... n-law.html

As I expected, it looks like Georgetown would pass Cornell. There's a pretty big gap there.

I wonder if Cornell would stop spending so much on faculty and start spending more on scholarships to get its medians back up.


No accounting for Cornell's significant employment advantage over GULC?


Employment stats are BS. Gtown just has to pay all their nojerbs 8.50 an hour to clean the floors and bam! 100%.


I'm talking bar passage-required employment. Last I checked Cornell had like a 15-20% lead over GULC.

EDIT: Only about 12%, not as dramatic as I thought.
http://abovethelaw.com/schools/georgeto ... employment
http://abovethelaw.com/schools/cornell- ... employment

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sinfiery
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby sinfiery » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:41 pm

The Brainalist wrote:I can't find it, but I once read an article about why Yale always has and always will be number 1 in USNEWS, and it was basically because it has a huge advantage in expenditures. The idea of it is now rehashed every year, but here is one blog from a few years ago that explains it.

http://agoraphilia.blogspot.com/2008/08 ... n-law.html

Holy shit. If they remove this section, the new minitiers will be HYSCCNPVMBCDNG because they are all practically even


Also, where will the DROVES flock?
Last edited by sinfiery on Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Samara
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby Samara » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:43 pm

jbagelboy wrote:Student/faculty ratio is still important.

Student/faculty ratio holds little relevance in law school. Do you know how many worthless classes Yale offers? That's not what makes a school good.

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MarkinKansasCity
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Re: ABA Changes could affect USNWR ranking metric

Postby MarkinKansasCity » Tue Jul 09, 2013 2:44 pm

Samara wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:Student/faculty ratio is still important.

Student/faculty ratio holds little relevance in law school. Do you know how many worthless classes Yale offers? That's not what makes a school good.


hmmmmm. What classes would Yale offer? How to be President? I would totally enroll in that.




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