How bad is UF?

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:31 am

transferhopes2013 wrote:I don't want to interrupt the thread, but I am top of my class at UF/FSU and have been accepted on transfer to Boalt and Michigan. My goal is big law. After reading this thread I am strongly leaning towards leaving. What are your thoughts?


If you want florida biglulz than stay put

Anywhere else, get packing

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:34 am

FeelTheHeat wrote:
transferhopes2013 wrote:I don't want to interrupt the thread, but I am top of my class at UF/FSU and have been accepted on transfer to Boalt and Michigan. My goal is big law. After reading this thread I am strongly leaning towards leaving. What are your thoughts?


If you want florida biglulz than stay put

Anywhere else, get packing


i'd assume he is top 2-3% to get into boalt/michigan from fsu/uf.

rad lulz
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:35 am

transferhopes2013 wrote:I don't want to interrupt the thread, but I am top of my class at UF/FSU and have been accepted on transfer to Boalt and Michigan. My goal is big law. After reading this thread I am strongly leaning towards leaving. What are your thoughts?

Where

transferhopes2013
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby transferhopes2013 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:45 am

crestor wrote:
FeelTheHeat wrote:
transferhopes2013 wrote:I don't want to interrupt the thread, but I am top of my class at UF/FSU and have been accepted on transfer to Boalt and Michigan. My goal is big law. After reading this thread I am strongly leaning towards leaving. What are your thoughts?


If you want florida biglulz than stay put

Anywhere else, get packing


i'd assume he is top 2-3% to get into boalt/michigan from fsu/uf.


1%
Last edited by transferhopes2013 on Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

transferhopes2013
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby transferhopes2013 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:45 am

rad lulz wrote:
transferhopes2013 wrote:I don't want to interrupt the thread, but I am top of my class at UF/FSU and have been accepted on transfer to Boalt and Michigan. My goal is big law. After reading this thread I am strongly leaning towards leaving. What are your thoughts?

Where


Anywhere south of the mason-dixon line. Home market is too cold.

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stillwater
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby stillwater » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:49 am

transferhopes2013 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
transferhopes2013 wrote:I don't want to interrupt the thread, but I am top of my class at UF/FSU and have been accepted on transfer to Boalt and Michigan. My goal is big law. After reading this thread I am strongly leaning towards leaving. What are your thoughts?

Where


Anywhere south of the mason-dixon line. Home market is too cold.


then going to school above it probably isnt the solution

transferhopes2013
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby transferhopes2013 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:53 am

stillwater wrote:
transferhopes2013 wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
transferhopes2013 wrote:I don't want to interrupt the thread, but I am top of my class at UF/FSU and have been accepted on transfer to Boalt and Michigan. My goal is big law. After reading this thread I am strongly leaning towards leaving. What are your thoughts?

Where


Anywhere south of the mason-dixon line. Home market is too cold.


then going to school above it probably isnt the solution


Even if its Michigan? I'm concerned I'll strikeout, or worse get no-offered later, in FL market with my current FL school. Whereas, MI would open some doors in D.C., TX, CA if FL doesn't workout.

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sublime
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby sublime » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:01 am

..

rad lulz
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 1:05 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PDaddy
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby PDaddy » Fri Jul 12, 2013 5:13 am

sublime wrote:Yea, there are more schools in Cali, but Cali's legal market is much bigger as well, and their schools are much better. I don't feel like looking it up right now, but at least 4 schools, and perhaps as many as 7-8 are better than any single school in Florida.


True!

The Super-Elite: Stanford

The Elite: Berkeley

The L.A. Twins: UCLA and USC

The Next Best: UC-Irvine, UC-Davis and UC-Hastings

The Best of the Rest: Pepperdine, U-San Diego, Loyola (CA)

The Rest: Santa Clara, U-Pacific, U-San Francisco, Chapman, Southwestern

Wannabes: Cal Western, Golden Gate and every other TTT and TTTT

Cali has at least seven schools that I would choose over the Florida schools without blinking, and at least three others (Pepperdine, USD and Loyola) that are arguably better than anything the state of Florida offers as well.

nebula666
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby nebula666 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 7:20 am

transferhopes2013 wrote:
stillwater wrote:
transferhopes2013 wrote:
Even if its Michigan? I'm concerned I'll strikeout, or worse get no-offered later, in FL market with my current FL school. Whereas, MI would open some doors in D.C., TX, CA if FL doesn't workout.


Where are you from? You have guaranteed yourself Biglaw in Florida. There is no guarantee once you transfer.

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Fri Jul 12, 2013 9:53 am

As for your big law question, I can speak for FSU, which I'm assuming applies to UF as well. If your grades are really good (top 15% or a little worse) and you have some good credentials (i.e., law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.), you have a shot. If you have connections, you obviously have a bigger shot, but connections are neither necessary nor sufficient.

People in this thread are right though by telling you there's no guarantee -- there isn't. You have a decent chance of getting a summer internship with the big dogs if you ball out, but employment is a whole different animal. It's possible though, and I've absolutely seen it happen to people at my school. FL hosts a some of the most elite firms in the country.

Also, reconsider whether biglaw is your only ambition. It's awesome if you get it, but don't have the mentality that if you don't get big law, your career will be a failure. LOL, that's not how it works.

Good luck.
Last edited by Bless on Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:21 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:11 am

rad lulz wrote:
Bless wrote:I just wanted to comment that the FL market is not as bad as everyone is saying. It's certainly not great, but coming out of UF, you should be able to find a job. UF is a good regional law school and places well in the South East.


Graduating from UF, employment will be there. It's good to be on your guard, but don't buy into the TLS hysteria. I'm a 3L at FSU and I don't know one person from FSU Law that has graduated and been unable to find work, while UF is still the top dog in the state. Good luck.

Lawschooltransparency.com suggests that your anecdata is wrong

Maybe so, and perhaps I should take a look, but I'm speaking from first hand experience.

I do not know ONE person from FSU Law who has graduated and couldn't find any work. Not ONE. I know a guy that was at the bottom of the class, and even he has a job.

Of course, I'm not saying there aren't people from FSU/UF Law looking for employment. I'm sure there are those exceptions; I certainly don't know everyone's 411. I just find it important to note that I can't think of one person that hasn't found a job after graduating from FSU, given all the people I know who have.

Even the TTTs can land gigs in South FL. Yes, I'm speaking from experience too. One of the larger firms in South FL is almost entirely Nova grads, believe it or not, and I even saw someone in that particular firm with a JD from Coastal, lol. And I know two people who just graduated FIU who have jobs, neither who were even near top of the class.

So, here's my conclusion: if you've graduated from FSU or UF and absolutely CANNOT find a job within a year after graduation, your credentials are either beyond miserable or you simply are not doing enough hustle. That's my general opinion, but I'm sure there may be some "shitty luck/terrible market" exceptions. I just don't know any personally.

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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:20 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:28 am

rad lulz wrote:45% of UF has beyond miserable credentials or is not hustling?

Okay

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic

Does your definition of "job" include part time and non lawyer work?

It doesn't include part time, but it does include other types of work that are on par financially with legal work. I know some guys who went the corporate route and are not practicing attorneys, but that was purportedly their choice.


If, in fact, 45% of UF law grads are out there grinding for legal work and cannot find any job whatsoever within a year of graduation, I find that shocking. I have heard of this website, but I'm not familiar with its credibility. Based off my experience, I find that number unbelievable.

timbs4339
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:32 am

Bless wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Bless wrote:I just wanted to comment that the FL market is not as bad as everyone is saying. It's certainly not great, but coming out of UF, you should be able to find a job. UF is a good regional law school and places well in the South East.


Graduating from UF, employment will be there. It's good to be on your guard, but don't buy into the TLS hysteria. I'm a 3L at FSU and I don't know one person from FSU Law that has graduated and been unable to find work, while UF is still the top dog in the state. Good luck.

Lawschooltransparency.com suggests that your anecdata is wrong

Maybe so, and perhaps I should take a look, but I'm speaking from first hand experience.

I do not know ONE person from FSU Law who has graduated and couldn't find any work. Not ONE. I know a guy that was at the bottom of the class, and even he has a job.

Of course, I'm not saying there aren't people from FSU/UF Law looking for employment. I'm sure there are those exceptions; I certainly don't know everyone's 411. I just find it important to note that I can't think of one person that hasn't found a job after graduating from FSU, given all the people I know who have.

Even the TTTs can land gigs in South FL. Yes, I'm speaking from experience too. One of the larger firms in South FL is almost entirely Nova grads, believe it or not, and I even saw someone in that particular firm with a JD from Coastal, lol. And I know two people who just graduated FIU who have jobs, neither who were even near top of the class.

So, here's my conclusion: if you've graduated from FSU or UF and absolutely CANNOT find a job within a year after graduation, your credentials are either beyond miserable or you simply are not doing enough hustle. That's my general opinion, but I'm sure there may be some "shitty luck/terrible market" exceptions. I just don't know any personally.


There are 100 M+Ms in a jar, 45 brown M+Ms and 55 blue M+Ms. I pick 10 M+Ms and they are all brown. So here's my conclusion: the jar must be lying to me.

See the problem with this?

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:34 am

I'm speaking for a lot more than 10 people.


Also, I said from the get that I was only speaking from my experience. I never meant for my statements to be interpreted as the absolute tell-all of UF employment rates, which is why I said "I'm sure there are exceptions." However, I am at least speaking as a person coming out of a FL school, living in a FL market, who knows MANY, MANY people who have graduated from various FL schools, and especially FSU.

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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:46 am

Bless wrote:I'm speaking for a lot more than 10 people.

Yeah you missed the point of that analogy

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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:46 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:48 am

timbs4339 wrote:
Bless wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Bless wrote:I just wanted to comment that the FL market is not as bad as everyone is saying. It's certainly not great, but coming out of UF, you should be able to find a job. UF is a good regional law school and places well in the South East.


Graduating from UF, employment will be there. It's good to be on your guard, but don't buy into the TLS hysteria. I'm a 3L at FSU and I don't know one person from FSU Law that has graduated and been unable to find work, while UF is still the top dog in the state. Good luck.

Lawschooltransparency.com suggests that your anecdata is wrong

Maybe so, and perhaps I should take a look, but I'm speaking from first hand experience.

I do not know ONE person from FSU Law who has graduated and couldn't find any work. Not ONE. I know a guy that was at the bottom of the class, and even he has a job.

Of course, I'm not saying there aren't people from FSU/UF Law looking for employment. I'm sure there are those exceptions; I certainly don't know everyone's 411. I just find it important to note that I can't think of one person that hasn't found a job after graduating from FSU, given all the people I know who have.

Even the TTTs can land gigs in South FL. Yes, I'm speaking from experience too. One of the larger firms in South FL is almost entirely Nova grads, believe it or not, and I even saw someone in that particular firm with a JD from Coastal, lol. And I know two people who just graduated FIU who have jobs, neither who were even near top of the class.

So, here's my conclusion: if you've graduated from FSU or UF and absolutely CANNOT find a job within a year after graduation, your credentials are either beyond miserable or you simply are not doing enough hustle. That's my general opinion, but I'm sure there may be some "shitty luck/terrible market" exceptions. I just don't know any personally.


There are 100 M+Ms in a jar, 45 brown M+Ms and 55 blue M+Ms. I pick 10 M+Ms and they are all brown. So here's my conclusion: the jar must be lying to me.

See the problem with this?

To add to this analogy, the blue M+Ms are also at the bottom of the jar

People without jobs tend to not like the broadcast the fact they don't have jobs

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Fri Jul 12, 2013 10:51 am

rad lulz wrote:LST is based off the stats that schools are required to report to the ABA

That 55% number is full time, long term, bar passage required jobs, 9 months after graduation

aka "working as a lawyer"

What about people that don't want to be lawyers? In my class alone, I can think of many that have been saying since 1L "I'm not going to be a lawyer."

What about people working in house that are not required to pass the bar?

What about people who go back to school?

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:00 am

rad lulz wrote:
Bless wrote:I'm speaking for a lot more than 10 people.

Yeah you missed the point of that analogy

I don't think I did.

I never said that my sample was the tell-all of employment. I was just giving OP a glimpse of my first hand experience in the market he is questioning. So I never said the jar is exactly lying.

Also, the fact that I know more than 10% of FSU law grads (2012) that have jobs lends more credence to my conclusions than the analogy purports to refute.

But yeah, back to the topic: employment out of UF. OP, take my anecdotes as you please and for what they are. Just wanted to help give you a picture of what I've seen. Good luck.

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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:03 am

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Last edited by rad lulz on Fri Sep 16, 2016 12:02 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:11 am

rad lulz wrote:Impossible to know ab how many are in the first two categories

Right, so that number isn't precisely accurate. It omits any grad working in house and not required to take the bar, returning to school, or working in a different field entirely.

rad lulz wrote:but judging from my own law school experience, those first 2 categories are very very small

lol, now you're doing what I was doing, except my experience was at least pertinent to the relevant market.

And the first two categories are not as small at my school, to be honest. For instance, I know a guy who graduated top 15% and is now working in house in Cali making bank. He wasn't required to take the bar.

rad lulz wrote:Going back to school is usually a shit outcome

I agree, but people still do it.

timbs4339
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby timbs4339 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:25 am

Bless wrote:
rad lulz wrote:
Bless wrote:I'm speaking for a lot more than 10 people.

Yeah you missed the point of that analogy

I don't think I did.

I never said that my sample was the tell-all of employment. I was just giving OP a glimpse of my first hand experience in the market he is questioning. So I never said the jar is exactly lying.

Also, the fact that I know more than 10% of FSU law grads (2012) that have jobs lends more credence to my conclusions than the analogy purports to refute.

But yeah, back to the topic: employment out of UF. OP, take my anecdotes as you please and for what they are. Just wanted to help give you a picture of what I've seen. Good luck.


No, all that proves is that you happen to have first-hand knowledge of an unrepresentative sample of data based on chance. I'm sure there are others who are saying that they don't know anyone who is employed out of FSU. I'm sure there are even more who know some people with jobs and some without. None of their samples contradict the LST data.

Please point me to all these great non-law jobs. Because when T13 schools are placing 90 or 95% of their classes into lawyer jobs (and when the vast majority of FSU students take the bar), it tends to refute the idea that there is a large percentage of people who never wanted to become lawyers in the first place.




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