How bad is UF?

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AB Jag
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby AB Jag » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:25 am

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Last edited by AB Jag on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Joe Quincy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:30 am

AB Jag wrote:
Joe Quincy wrote:
See my edit. Your payment would be nearly 30% of your after-tax income for 10 years. The most important 10 years savings wise and the 10 years in which you are likely to have some of the largest expenses in your life. While UF is cheaper than many, you're still looking at $112K in debt if you can manage to live within the student budget (many cannot when you factor in unpaid summers, etc).

And if you do 30 years, you're looking at a total economic cost of nearly $260K.

$37K a year is cheaper than many, but it is far from inexpensive. And like I said, for some it may be worthwhile. But there are a lot of assumptions built into even that $60K a year figure, many have undergrad debt in addition, and many could make close to that $60K without attending law school at all.

And all those numbers are at the resident rate. The non-resident debt load would be $169K and $1944 per month for 10 years (45% of after tax income).

And sure, IBR/PAYE can help but your again making lots of assumptions and greatly limiting your ability to ever accumulate wealth or retirement funds.


I think as far as assumptions are concerned, you are essentially outlining the situation of the last kid in. That's not the mindset I'm entering this process with. Don't think the original poster is either.

A UF degree isn't a free pass to financial security, career success, and a wonderful retirement... But it is definitely not a bad choice.


? The last kid in? LOL 0L. Keep thinking that. And as I said, for some of it is an ok choice but for MOST it is a bad choice. They'd be better not to go to law school at all or to relocate to a better market & school.

I outlined it as for the vast majority of the entire class at UF. Not the last kid in. Try the bottom 80% and you cannot predict your class placement with any degree of accuracy.

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:34 am

i thought i posted in here last night

uf is cool but don't spend a lot of money to go there

by and large most people with jerbs had family connections

i had pretty good grades and got two OCI interviews

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AB Jag
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby AB Jag » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:48 am

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Last edited by AB Jag on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Joe Quincy
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Joe Quincy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:53 am

AB Jag wrote:
Joe Quincy wrote:
? The last kid in? LOL 0L. Keep thinking that. And as I said, for some of it is an ok choice but for MOST it is a bad choice. They'd be better not to go to law school at all or to relocate to a better market & school.

I outlined it as for the vast majority of the entire class at UF. Not the last kid in. Try the bottom 80% and you cannot predict your class placement with any degree of accuracy.


What I meant by that is, concerning money, neither he nor I will be leaving school with that no-aid debt number. My hyperbole wasn't meant to be taken literally.


With sufficient aid it could be a decent deal. But you still have the cost of lost opportunity over those 3 years. I'd only go with substantial (nearly full-ride) aid. Its troubling how locked into the FL market you are considering how over-saturated it is and that would give me pause even if I was going for free.

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mvonh001
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:35 pm

FeelTheHeat wrote:i thought i posted in here last night

uf is cool but don't spend a lot of money to go there

by and large most people with jerbs had family connections

i had pretty good grades and got two OCI interviews


Did yo have connections, did anything come of those interviews?

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mvonh001
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:40 pm

AB Jag wrote:Is big law the only goal? Ha. Not for me.

I am a UF undergrad and UF law is my goal. 3.63/166 (June) and I'm pretty stoked because I think I'll get in. Would love some scholarship money. Don't care about starting salaries. This isn't a 5 year plan, it's a career choice. I want to be in Jax, don't care about making huge $, and love the school.

UF is fantastic.


You are an auto-admit... don't even stress it.

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Bless
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Bless » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:24 pm

I just wanted to comment that the FL market is not as bad as everyone is saying. It's certainly not great, but coming out of UF, you should be able to find a job. UF is a good regional law school and places well in the South East.


Graduating from UF, employment will be there. It's good to be on your guard, but don't buy into the TLS hysteria. I'm a 3L at FSU and I don't know one person from FSU Law that has graduated and been unable to find work, while UF is still the top dog in the state. Good luck.

timbs4339
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 5:51 pm

Do not go to UF if you want to do biglaw. That's pretty much a given. If you just want to be a lawyer in Florida, are fine with making 40-60K starting, and can go with that much debt (maybe 75-90K), then it's a good option.

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:16 pm

reading the TLS employment threads, the florida big law seems to be a crapshoot anyway... people on this site act like everyone wants to work big-law or bust. if your parents can fund your legal education and you can pull top 15% at FSU/FU, then GG unless you are big law or bust.

rad lulz
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby rad lulz » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:23 pm

Bless wrote:I just wanted to comment that the FL market is not as bad as everyone is saying. It's certainly not great, but coming out of UF, you should be able to find a job. UF is a good regional law school and places well in the South East.


Graduating from UF, employment will be there. It's good to be on your guard, but don't buy into the TLS hysteria. I'm a 3L at FSU and I don't know one person from FSU Law that has graduated and been unable to find work, while UF is still the top dog in the state. Good luck.

Lawschooltransparency.com suggests that your anecdata is wrong

timbs4339
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby timbs4339 » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:28 pm

crestor wrote:reading the TLS employment threads, the florida big law seems to be a crapshoot anyway... people on this site act like everyone wants to work big-law or bust. if your parents can fund your legal education and you can pull top 15% at FSU/FU, then GG unless you are big law or bust.


It...never...ends...

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:51 pm

to poster above, instead of posting some meaningless nonsense, why not post evidence against my statement that FLORIDA BIG LAW IS NOT A CRAPSHOOT EVEN AT T14.

thanks for not posting like a retard in the future.

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sublime
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby sublime » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:15 pm

..

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:25 pm

sublime wrote:You could do worse, especially at its COA. I think people are (somewhat rightfully) nervous about the Florida legal economy, as well as the amount of law schools in the state, even if many are TTT. Btw, FIU, FSU, Stetson, and Miami all have better employment scores than UF on LST. UF does get more into biglaw, but it is not a HUGE amount and over 20% unemployment is scary.

I think at a low COA, if you know you want to stay in FL and are fine with midlaw/smalllaw or Gov't/PI, then FSU and UF are not bad options, particularly if your GPA precludes you from going to a better school at a reasonable cost.

At the same time, I would be hesitant to recommend someone who is set on big law attending any of them.


is that really true in terms of employment? damn. i know fsu had beat UF this last year on LST but didn't know it was fiu, stetson, and miami.. let me check that out.

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:29 pm

Wow. Why is UF still considered teh flagship when 4 separate law schools have better employment stats? Anyone mind elaborating?


Stetson University
75.1% Employed in FL
58.7%* 18.8% 0.6% $214,250 $2,547
University of Florida
66.7% Employed in FL
55.6%* 27.6% 1.8% $127,956 (Resident) $1,505
University of Miami
59.2% Employed in FL
58.8%* 20.4% 2.8% $232,969 $2,773
Florida International University
76.1% Employed in FL
56.5%* 13.6% 1.6% $147,405 (Resident) $1,740
Florida State University
75.2% Employed in FL
65.4% 17.8% 1% $130,809 (Resident) $1,540

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sublime
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby sublime » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:31 pm

..

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stillwater
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby stillwater » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:34 pm

omg it is SO bad. dont do it.

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:36 pm

sublime wrote:
crestor wrote:
sublime wrote:You could do worse, especially at its COA. I think people are (somewhat rightfully) nervous about the Florida legal economy, as well as the amount of law schools in the state, even if many are TTT. Btw, FIU, FSU, Stetson, and Miami all have better employment scores than UF on LST. UF does get more into biglaw, but it is not a HUGE amount and over 20% unemployment is scary.

I think at a low COA, if you know you want to stay in FL and are fine with midlaw/smalllaw or Gov't/PI, then FSU and UF are not bad options, particularly if your GPA precludes you from going to a better school at a reasonable cost.

At the same time, I would be hesitant to recommend someone who is set on big law attending any of them.


is that really true in terms of employment? damn. i know fsu had beat UF this last year on LST but didn't know it was fiu, stetson, and miami.. let me check that out.



Yea, I pulled it up to double check. But they did for straight employment score. However, like I mentioned UF students seem to have a better chance at biglaw and get some better positions though.

IMO, it is being in the middle of nowhere that really hurts them. All 4 of those other schools are at least near a city.


I've read that Florida big law to even walk in the door from UF means LR and top 5% otherwise cya. Then, you have to compete against T14. It's basically a better chance at getting rejected. Then again, UF is not expensive where if you strike out at big law, you are fucked for the rest of your life in terms of debt if you have 200k+ debt on your back.

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stillwater
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby stillwater » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:42 pm

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Last edited by stillwater on Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:24 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sublime
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby sublime » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:43 pm

..

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:53 pm

sublime wrote:
crestor wrote:
I've read that Florida big law to even walk in the door from UF means LR and top 5% otherwise cya. Then, you have to compete against T14. It's basically a better chance at getting rejected. Then again, UF is not expensive where if you strike out at big law, you are fucked for the rest of your life in terms of debt if you have 200k+ debt on your back.



You're probably right, which is why I said I wouldn't advise someone to go if they wanted biglaw.

I was going to say that UF's numbers may be shit because their class sizes are so huge, but it looks like Miami has like 100 more people in it, and Stetson has more, and FSU is close. These are the number of 2012 graduates:

Miami: 461 :shock:
Stetson: 341
UF: 333
FSU: 286
FIU: 184

Edit: And because I was curious, you then have the TTT's (in order of employment score)

Nova: 354 (less than 1% under UF's employment score, btw)
Barry: 200
Florida Coastal: 510 :shock:
St Thomas: 216
FAMU: 160
Ave Maria: 166


There are entirely too many law schools and students in Florida.[/quote


its somewhat like california but not as extreme
in california you have stanford then you have chapman/thomas jefferson school of law/other festering TTTTT. lol.

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sublime
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby sublime » Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:59 pm

..

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FeelTheHeat
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby FeelTheHeat » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:02 pm

protip: don't go to any florida school expecting, or even hoping, for biglawl

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crestor
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Re: How bad is UF?

Postby crestor » Thu Jul 11, 2013 11:08 pm

sublime wrote:Yea, there are more schools in Cali, but Cali's legal market is much bigger as well, and their schools are much better. I don't feel like looking it up right now, but at least 4 schools, and perhaps as many as 7-8 are better than any single school in Florida.



stanford, ucla, usc, berkeley, , davis, hastings is pushing the line. after that Id say FSU/UF >

so 5-6 yep.




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