How bad is UF?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:34 pm

I hear so many different things about UF that I am sufficiently confused.

How bad is the school for working in Florida preferably Big Law (because isn't that what we all really want deep down)?

Is it really the shit law school that some people make it out to be?
Does going there really mean you will end up broke, jobless, with aids, and pregnant?

I'm just looking for some answers here.

There 10% big law number is not great, but how many schools really place more people in Big Law? 43? For being the ~44 law school in the nation (as ranked by USNWR) it sure does get a lot of shit. Is that because it's market (FL) is a legal shithole? Or is something inherently wrong with the school...

I ask because I bombed the June LSAT (163) and may have to go to UF, unless my retake in October comes through with a 170+ - and UF would be free for me, but even if it wasn't, it would only cost like 18 grand a year.

I'm very serious about this post, so please, if you have something to contribute please do.

User avatar
Typhoon24
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Typhoon24 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:44 pm

it's not UF that sucks, it's the florida market that does. So if anyone is to get a job in that oversaturated market, it would be the UF guys first. I live in FL and a lot of my pre-law professors think that is tcr and it seems TLS agrees to some extent. I'm sending an app there in the fall as a regional backup.

User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:47 pm

Typhoon24 wrote:it's not UF that sucks, it's the florida market that does. So if anyone is to get a job in that oversaturated market, it would be the UF guys first. I live in FL and a lot of my pre-law professors think that is the tcr and it seems TLS agrees to some extent. I'm sending an app there in the fall as a regional backup.


That's what my plan was until i got this lsat score.. O well ill do better next time.. Anyway, would you actually attend UF over a t14?

User avatar
Typhoon24
Posts: 649
Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Typhoon24 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:50 pm

mvonh001 wrote:
Typhoon24 wrote:it's not UF that sucks, it's the florida market that does. So if anyone is to get a job in that oversaturated market, it would be the UF guys first. I live in FL and a lot of my pre-law professors think that is the tcr and it seems TLS agrees to some extent. I'm sending an app there in the fall as a regional backup.


That's what my plan was until i got this lsat score.. O well ill do better next time.. Anyway, would you actually attend UF over a t14?


not in this lifetime i wont. lol there MIGHT be some consideration if I was interested in practicing in non-miami florida and I was getting a full ride at UF vs and sticker at like georgetown, but I wanna practice in the northeast or cali.

User avatar
Cicero76
Posts: 1276
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Cicero76 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:04 pm

UF is not that bad, and I'm not just speaking as an undergrad fanboi. Its cost is low enough that you're not making a $150,000 mistake. You have a decent chance of building a career in Florida with a degree from the best law school in the state. The alumni network is great, and will usually go to bat for you.

User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 9:20 pm

Cicero76 wrote:UF is not that bad, and I'm not just speaking as an undergrad fanboi. Its cost is low enough that you're not making a $150,000 mistake. You have a decent chance of building a career in Florida with a degree from the best law school in the state. The alumni network is great, and will usually go to bat for you.


And that is coming from a YLStudent... I hate this website sometimes, I get so many mixed messages...

User avatar
untar614
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby untar614 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:12 pm

As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.

User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:21 pm

untar614 wrote:As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.


So UF = GULC of the south? Lol

User avatar
untar614
Posts: 646
Joined: Mon Feb 04, 2013 1:01 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby untar614 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:25 pm

mvonh001 wrote:
untar614 wrote:As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.


So UF = GULC of the south? Lol


More like the GULC of Florida. It's the best school that's there, but the jobs are in short supply, and there are also students from top ranked school coming in there too, and the class size is too big for the number of jobs available there.
(I'm just making an analogy here though. GULC actually holds some weight outside of DC, while UF outside of Florida, not so much)

User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:36 pm

untar614 wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:
untar614 wrote:As another undergrad fanboi, I will also say UF isn't bad. It's the best school in the state (unless you wanna do state and local government work, in which case FSU is better cuz it's in the state capital). It's just that the legal market in FL sucks and is way oversaturated, and despite Miami, Tampa and Orlando seeming like really big cities that would have good markets, the biglaw offices in these places are really small. Honestly, UF should cut their class size significantly. They have a mad respek here in FL, and the top of the class has access to the good jobs, but there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with, or places that only want laterals (which may be more common here since the offices are smaller. I have know actual knowledge of the specific situation here, but my intuition leads me to believe smaller offices will be less likely to want to train many recent grads, as issues of scale make it more difficult)

It's like a smaller, more localized GULC kind of situation.


So UF = GULC of the south? Lol


More like the GULC of Florida. It's the best school that's there, but the jobs are in short supply, and there are also students from top ranked school coming in there too, and the class size is too big for the number of jobs available there.
(I'm just making an analogy here though. GULC actually holds some weight outside of DC, while UF outside of Florida, not so much)


Ya, i got that... Don't worry, I understand your analogy... Thanks for your input.

oblig.lawl.ref
Posts: 232
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 10:28 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby oblig.lawl.ref » Wed Jul 03, 2013 10:54 pm

untar614 wrote:there just aren't enough of said jobs to go around when there are also T14 grads with ties to compete with


This--if you want biglaw. I don't have much advice outside of the t14/biglaw range of things but if you say you really want biglaw, almost always this.

User avatar
Cicero76
Posts: 1276
Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Cicero76 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:14 am

I can also attest to the awfulness of Florida's market. In talking to Orlando attorneys, they have to a person told me that the market is atrocious across the state and no small firm they know of would hire anyone at all. Unfortunately, the only large firms outside Miami are mostly shitlaw and ambulance chasers, where your salary sucks and getting a job is STILL hard. You know a market is hopelessly flooded when you see four different billboards with variations on "1-800-ABOGADO" on one street.

User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:44 pm

So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.

nebula666
Posts: 780
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:19 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby nebula666 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:35 pm

mvonh001 wrote:So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.


It depends where you are from. I personally wouldn't work in Miami which is why I will end up targeting Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm, Ft. Lauderale.

Very few people leave the state of Florida.

User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 3:52 pm

nebula666 wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.


It depends where you are from. I personally wouldn't work in Miami which is why I will end up targeting Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm, Ft. Lauderale.

Very few people leave the state of Florida.


Have you had any luck in this process, would you mind if i PM'd you soem questions?

nebula666
Posts: 780
Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 12:19 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby nebula666 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 5:40 pm

mvonh001 wrote:
nebula666 wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.


It depends where you are from. I personally wouldn't work in Miami which is why I will end up targeting Jacksonville, Orlando, Tampa, West Palm, Ft. Lauderale.

Very few people leave the state of Florida.


Have you had any luck in this process, would you mind if i PM'd you soem questions?


I'm only a rising 2L but sure you can PM me about anything UF law related

itachiuchiha
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby itachiuchiha » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:27 pm

mvonh001 wrote:I hear so many different things about UF that I am sufficiently confused.

How bad is the school for working in Florida preferably Big Law (because isn't that what we all really want deep down)?

Is it really the shit law school that some people make it out to be?
Does going there really mean you will end up broke, jobless, with aids, and pregnant?

I'm just looking for some answers here.

There 10% big law number is not great, but how many schools really place more people in Big Law? 43? For being the ~44 law school in the nation (as ranked by USNWR) it sure does get a lot of shit. Is that because it's market (FL) is a legal shithole? Or is something inherently wrong with the school...

I ask because I bombed the June LSAT (163) and may have to go to UF, unless my retake in October comes through with a 170+ - and UF would be free for me, but even if it wasn't, it would only cost like 18 grand a year.

I'm very serious about this post, so please, if you have something to contribute please do.


3.82 and 158
i am retaking.... but as of now uf is my #1 until i get a better score
fl resident

User avatar
mvonh001
Posts: 581
Joined: Wed Mar 28, 2012 3:49 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby mvonh001 » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:30 pm

itachiuchiha wrote:
mvonh001 wrote:I hear so many different things about UF that I am sufficiently confused.

How bad is the school for working in Florida preferably Big Law (because isn't that what we all really want deep down)?

Is it really the shit law school that some people make it out to be?
Does going there really mean you will end up broke, jobless, with aids, and pregnant?

I'm just looking for some answers here.

There 10% big law number is not great, but how many schools really place more people in Big Law? 43? For being the ~44 law school in the nation (as ranked by USNWR) it sure does get a lot of shit. Is that because it's market (FL) is a legal shithole? Or is something inherently wrong with the school...

I ask because I bombed the June LSAT (163) and may have to go to UF, unless my retake in October comes through with a 170+ - and UF would be free for me, but even if it wasn't, it would only cost like 18 grand a year.

I'm very serious about this post, so please, if you have something to contribute please do.


3.82 and 158
i am retaking.... but as of now uf is my #1 until i get a better score
fl resident


Word... hopefully I wont be seeing you there (because we will both have outscored our original LSAT)

itachiuchiha
Posts: 907
Joined: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:59 pm

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby itachiuchiha » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:53 pm

I'm praying for us my brotha!

User avatar
Joe Quincy
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 10:42 am

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Joe Quincy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:08 pm

I posted this in your other thread, but ~60% of their grads were in firms <50 people with a median salary of $60K. $60K...keep that in mind when you decide if you can service the debt from there. Another 13% went to "business" with a median salary of $57K.

http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/graduate-employment-information/employment-statistics

User avatar
Joe Quincy
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 10:42 am

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Joe Quincy » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:09 pm

mvonh001 wrote:So what does someone who goes to UF live for? A job in Miami, or a job in GA? I'm trying to get a grasp of where my backup will take me if i end up there.. Thanks for all the info guys.


Only 4 people found a job in GA from UF for the last year in which data is available. http://www.law.ufl.edu/career/graduate-employment-information/employment-statistics

User avatar
AB Jag
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:35 am

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby AB Jag » Fri Jul 05, 2013 10:57 am

.
Last edited by AB Jag on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Joe Quincy
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 10:42 am

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Joe Quincy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:00 am

AB Jag wrote:Is big law the only goal? Ha. Not for me.

I am a UF undergrad and UF law is my goal. 3.63/166 (June) and I'm pretty stoked because I think I'll get in. Would love some scholarship money. Don't care about starting salaries. This isn't a 5 year plan, it's a career choice. I want to be in Jax, don't care about making huge $, and love the school.

UF is fantastic.


? Starting salaries matter if you can't service the debt and also pay to live. Also, there isn't going to be some huge bump in salary down the road. Statistically, the vast majority of solos in a market like FL will be lucky to surpass $60-70K per year in their entire career. And a small firm starting at $60K will probably max you out around $80K. I know partners in these small firms that don't break $100K and the odds of partnership are just as bad, or worse, than in BigLaw.

Is BigLaw the only goal? Of course not. But be realistic with your expectations and how you're going to live for the next 30 years. For some, UF may be a great deal. For many, it will not be. No matter what, however, your starting salary is an important consideration.

Now UF is cheaper than many, but 3 years would still be about $111K in debt according to the student budget. That's $1,277 per month for ten years ($42,287 in total interest paid) or $723 for 30 years ($149,506 in total interest paid). A $1,200 payment for 10 years would be hard to swing at $60K, particularly at the point in life where people are having kids, should be saving for retirement, etc. I mean, that 30% of your after-tax income for 10 years!
Last edited by Joe Quincy on Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
AB Jag
Posts: 5
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2013 11:35 am

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby AB Jag » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:08 am

.
Last edited by AB Jag on Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Joe Quincy
Posts: 404
Joined: Thu May 16, 2013 10:42 am

Re: How bad is UF?

Postby Joe Quincy » Fri Jul 05, 2013 11:09 am

AB Jag wrote:
Joe Quincy wrote:
Is BigLaw the only goal? Of course not. But be realistic with your expectations and how you're going to live for the next 30 years. For some, UF may be a great deal. For many, it will not be. No matter what, however, your starting salary is an important consideration.


With UF being as inexpensive as it is, if I'm not able to cover my debts on 60k a year then I am an embarrassment to my business degree.


See my edit. Your payment would be nearly 30% of your after-tax income for 10 years. The most important 10 years savings wise and the 10 years in which you are likely to have some of the largest expenses in your life. While UF is cheaper than many, you're still looking at $112K in debt if you can manage to live within the student budget (many cannot when you factor in unpaid summers, etc).

And if you do 30 years, you're looking at a total economic cost of nearly $260K.

$37K a year is cheaper than many, but it is far from inexpensive. And like I said, for some it may be worthwhile. But there are a lot of assumptions built into even that $60K a year figure, many have undergrad debt in addition, and many could make close to that $60K without attending law school at all.

And all those numbers are at the resident rate. The non-resident debt load would be $169K and $1944 per month for 10 years (45% of after tax income).

And sure, IBR/PAYE can help but your again making lots of assumptions and greatly limiting your ability to ever accumulate wealth or retirement funds.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: stratton_oakmont, Yahoo [Bot] and 6 guests